Israeli PTSD study? Minnesota panel reviewing adding it.

MinnBobber

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Does anyone have a link to Israeli PTSD study. I've searched and searched and found references to such a study that was not complete, but quoted as having "spectacular results" so far.

Minnesota is having important State Health Dept meeting to discuss adding some med conditions, including PTSD. I attended the first meeting this week and studies carry more weight with the panel looking at the issue.

So, I'm looking for any studies in cannabis and PTSD.

Thanks
It is urgent that we get PTSD added as we send our vets off to dirty duty and when they come home with dirty problems, feds say fuck you, take these really dangerous big pharma drugs but no cannabis.
Time for change is now.
 
little maggie

little maggie

Well-Known Member
MinnBobber said:
Does anyone have a link to Israeli PTSD study. I've searched and searched and found references to such a study that was not complete, but quoted as having "spectacular results" so far.

Minnesota is having important State Health Dept meeting to discuss adding some med conditions, including PTSD. I attended the first meeting this week and studies carry more weight with the panel looking at the issue.

So, I'm looking for any studies in cannabis and PTSD.

Thanks
It is urgent that we get PTSD added as we send our vets off to dirty duty and when they come home with dirty problems, feds say fuck you, take these really dangerous big pharma drugs but no cannabis.
Time for change is now.
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There are quite a few states that already include marijuana under medical conditions. I would guess that there was research available to them that led to that decision. Like this:Research has consistently demonstrated that the human endocannabinoid system plays a significant role in PTSD. People with PTSD have greater availability of cannabinoid type 1 (CB1) receptors as compared to trauma-exposed or healthy controls (13,14). As a result, marijuana use by individuals with PTSD may result in short-term reduction of PTSD symptoms

"https://www.leafly.com/news/health/qualifying-conditions-for-medical-marijuana-by-state
The above does not have all the states that qualify PTSD. Oregon is one.
 
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little maggie,
Farid

Farid

Well-Known Member
You are looking for the Haifa University Department of Psychology study on rats, or the Hebrew university study on CBD.

Lebanese hash is dirt cheap over there, but I have heard the MMJ system there is very expensive and restrictive, plus it is not available to all the people who need it (especially low income patients and those who's citizenship is not recognized by the government). Sounds a lot like Mass come to think of it.
 
Farid,
S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
Farid said:
You are looking for the Haifa University Department of Psychology study on rats, or the Hebrew university study on CBD.

Lebanese hash is dirt cheap over there, but I have heard the MMJ system there is very expensive and restrictive, plus it is not available to all the people who need it (especially low income patients and those who's citizenship is not recognized by the government). Sounds a lot like Mass come to think of it.
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First off, MAPS (http://www.maps.org/research/mmj) was doing a study on PTSD in the USA. There are various studies being done in Israel now on PTSD. (http://observer.com/2016/03/what-gives-israel-the-edge-on-marijuana/)

Here is a link to the article http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/He...inds-post-trauma-benefits-of-marijuana-374762

The MMJ system is not broken in Israel. The biggest problems are that there are not enough approved doctors to issue licenses for chronic conditions. If someone is being treated by an oncologist there is a shorter path to approval (on the spot, I believe).

People with chronic conditions such as, PTSD and chronic pain have a longer path to approval.

As far as expense, you get whatever the govt allows you get 20 grams to 120 grams per month for one payment of approximately $100.

Regarding citizenship, I know of no country in the world that would subsidize non-emergency medical care of non-citizens.

Regarding Lebanese hash, I have no personal knowledge, but if it were dirt cheap I don't think cannabis would sell for what I am told equals $25 to $40 for a gram.
 
sickmanfraud,
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herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest problems with the progress of cannabis as a treatment for PTSD is that mental health professionals have some profoundly confused ideas surrounding cannabis and mental health. Many mental health professionals still think that if you use cannabis regularly, you'll develop psychotic illness. These guys ignore their own DSM which precludes diagnosis of a psychotic illness in the event of fleeting psychosis from a psychotomimetic drug, that is one that causes symptoms that imitate other psychotic illnesses, but is fleeting and only there while susceptible individuals are under the influence of a relevant dose of a relevant compound (THC does fit this scenario, in large doses it has certainly been observed to cause transient psychotic behaviors/thoughts in some cohorts).

A lot of mental health professionals can conflate the correlation between people experiencing depression and anxiety using weed at higher levels as a causal explanation suggesting that cannabis caused the mental health symptoms - this is sloppy science but it happens much more than I'd like to believe from my scholarly peers in clinical psychology.

PTSD carries serious risks of dissociative illness (the kinds of conditions we used to loosely refer to as 'multiple personality disorder') and psychotic depression. Additionally; anxiety, paranoia and hypervigilance are common to many people who suffer PTSD. Anxiety and paranoia can also be precipitated by too much of the resin from certain kinds of cannabis chemovars for certain people (whether vaporized in flowers, smoked or extracted and vaporized).

For these reasons, PTSD will require care in dosing (mostly care not to overdo certain compounds) and a more tailored approach in terms of the cannabis chemovars (this describes cannabis cultivated to produce a specific chemical profile within established limits) being grown that have more specific levels and ratios of relevant compounds (some THC, some CBD, relevant terpenes and minor cannabinoids depending on the patient's own symptoms as well as to account for different medical requirements for different times of day/contexts) and perhaps even a more 'designer' approach to extraction and isolation of any less-than-useful compounds for some individual expressions of PTSD, in order to minimize risks. I can foresee there being some PTSD patients who will not tolerate THC at all. I have seen this anecdotally.

To get to the original problem I mentioned - mental health professionals/clinicians simply do not understand the nature of cannabis compounds as medicines, nor do they appreciate the known nuances of these cannabis compounds (which are very complex; in some cases, what might treat mental health symptoms in small to medium doses, may precipitate some symptoms in extremely high doses or when consumed in certain ways - some people for example experience much more pronounced mental health symptoms from edibles due to the effects of digestive compounds changing d-9-THC to d-11-THC). How to resolve this problem is a challenge to say the least, but I daresay it is going to involve educating healthcare providers. This will require scholarly education from those within academia - stoners are not going to be persuading doctors with their own success stories alone, doctors and psychologists are scientist-practitioners and will require more than anecdote.
 
MinnBobber

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Still awaiting "results"---with all this time and effort invested, will the Mn Health Dept Commissioner take his committee's recommendation to add some medical conditions to our meager mmj program? 99.9% of public comments at all the meetings also wanted more medical conditions added.

My fear is, he'll be under political pressure to not add ALL the requested conditions, even though there is no such direct order, he may likely feel he can't approve all/ he'd be too easy.

My main push/ testimony was for PTSD being added as 22 vet suicides every day is unacceptable. Like @herbivore21 said, they want research study/ scientific results over anecdotal evidence but that's tough when getting approval for such PTSD studies is nigh unto impossible/ just starting to happen now.

Very interesting to chat with a committee member that is a psychologist and has worked with vet PTSD patients for 40 years. His anecdotal evidence was very pro-cannabis. Many of his patients used cannabis (illegally) on the side but they shared with him.
Tough to tweak your balance of cannabinoids and terp profiles when your bud is illegal and you get what you get. EVEN if PTSD gets MMJ approval it will still be impossible to tweak/ experiment as we have two state approved vendors. No flower, only concentrates. One vendor has only 3 choices of CO2 extract oil while the other has about 6 profiles (just THC:CBD ratios).

Fuck our State's monopoly (duopoly of 2 vendors) and fuck not allowing flowers!!!
 
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herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
MinnBobber said:
Still awaiting "results"---with all this time and effort invested, will the Mn Health Dept Commissioner take his committee's recommendation to add some medical conditions to our meager mmj program? 99.9% of public comments at all the meetings also wanted more medical conditions added.

My fear is, he'll be under political pressure to not add ALL the requested conditions, even though there is no such direct order, he may likely feel he can't approve all/ he'd be too easy.

My main push/ testimony was for PTSD being added as 22 vet suicides every day is unacceptable. Like @herbivore21 said, they want research study/ scientific results over anecdotal evidence but that's tough when getting approval for such PTSD studies is nigh unto impossible/ just starting to happen now.

Very interesting to chat with a committee member that is a psychologist and has worked with vet PTSD patients for 40 years. His anecdotal evidence was very pro-cannabis. Many of his patients used cannabis (illegally) on the side but they shared with him.
Tough to tweak your balance of cannabinoids and terp profiles when your bud is illegal and you get what you get. EVEN if PTSD gets MMJ approval it will still be impossible to tweak/ experiment as we have two state approved vendors. No flower, only concentrates. One vendor has only 3 choices of CO2 extract oil while the other has about 6 profiles (just THC:CBD ratios).

Fuck our State's monopoly (duopoly of 2 vendors) and fuck not allowing flowers!!!
Click to expand...
I agree with much of this, however I have to say we need to stop just focusing on veterans in discussions surrounding PTSD. Of course, many great vets who I am glad to count as my friends around here and beyond, suffer from PTSD and of course they need the best possible care - like anybody with PTSD.

Let's not forget that the many people who are not veterans who suffer from PTSD have been affected by horrific trauma, abuse, violent/sexual crimes etc and are even more vulnerable than soldiers in many cases. These people need care too. These people may not have any access to medical care due to the debilitation of their condition limiting their financial capacities. They don't even have the VA with all of the problems that we know there are with the VA's current treatment of PTSD sufferers!

PTSD is not just a soldiers' illness and sadly, veterans are almost all that we tend to hear about when PTSD is being discussed in the mainstream. We need studies that consider ALL kinds of PTSD sufferers who ALL can suffer disability and serious potential risks to life and limb from this condition.

This is not to take away at all from the suffering of veterans with PTSD, neither cohort should be favored! Both need access to safe, effective medical care!
 
MinnBobber

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
herbivore21 said:
I agree with much of this, however I have to say we need to stop just focusing on veterans in discussions surrounding PTSD. Of course, many great vets who I am glad to count as my friends around here and beyond, suffer from PTSD and of course they need the best possible care - like anybody with PTSD.
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Good point, X2, not just vets have PTSD.
Most PTSD speakers at these meeting were Vietnam era vets and I'm in the age demographic too.
A great non-vet PTSD example was a young male who was physically abused by his wife so he probably had assorted side issues like shame and secrecy of a big strong guy getting beat on by his wife, WTF is wrong with him etc ????

The best solution is full legal with unlimited choice of natural buds of all profiles :)
 
mikek9

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
MDMA anyone? Though I want to be clear about my stance on "substances". I don't agree with the abuse of any substance and feel strongly that those in this kind of trouble seem help ASAP. I am about as pro cannabis as you can get and have no real problem with people using it recreationally, as I mentioned, as long as it isn't being abused. Same goes for psychedelic compounds that have incredible mind expanding potential in right hands, but can be very dangerous and damaging in the wrong ones. Some of these drugs, even when used according to the safe guidelines, adverse reactions have been known to occurs and as Dr. Alexander (Sasha) Shulgin points out, they have the potential to flip a switch that sometimes can't be flipped back. So you have to exercise extreme caution.

I have a great respect for some fantastic compounds that have been discovered or created in our time that can do some miraculous things.

Dr Gabe Mator has done some incredible work with ayahuasca in South America with addicts and those with significant life altering conditions with great success. It is said to allow those to face the demons they are trying to escape, but in a way you are able to shake hands with them and somehow coexist. That's an over simplistic explanation, but it allows us to see things in a way we would possible never be able to or for one reason or another have been blocked access to those things by our own psyche's protection mechanisms.

My heart really goes out to vets because they sacrifice themselves and the families they glue together for everyone's greater good, supposedly. In the least they follow commands that are supposed to be for the best interest of our county. I don't want to debate the merits of military or the economy of war, but rather I want to focus on the individuals that are victims of these systems. As you guys pointed out, there are also other victims of PTSD unrelated to military and combat deployment, but they all equally deserve effective treatments. And I don't believe that we are close enough yet to improve the quality of lives for this demographic.

We have meds, even cannabis as many PTSD sufferers swear by, but in my eyes these are not cures, just ways to manage the symptoms as they come. This is much the same for almost all mental illness as there are no real cures.

But what if there was?


Watch the 16x9 Global News Story called "Healing High" here:
http://globalnews.ca/news/2638489/e...rapy-for-ptsd-suffers-by-2021-research-group/

-basically one vet with severe PTSD after I think 6 treatments had no diagnosable PTSD 3.8 years after his treatment ended.

What seems so promising to me is that this seems curative rather simply symptom management. I hope to see this research expanded to other mental health disorders like OCD, GAD, other anxiety disorders as well as various mood disorders.



Relevant links:

Current study in Vancouver, Canada:
http://www.maps.org/mdma-canada

The principles of the treatment:
http://www.maps.org/research/mdma
 
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mikek9,
OldOyler

OldOyler

Fire it again. I can still find the ground.
mikek9 said:
^^^^Too taboo for the community? :rockon:
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Peace m9!

I'll be honest - yeah. (I just figured nobody said anything since you asked yesterday)

But absolutely *no* guile or judgment or disagreement friend. :tup:

And this is obviously just me, not a community response.

For me, cannabis helped saved me from pain and (quite importantly for me personally) opiates. So I try only to promote stuff I have found to be a solution for myself, that's all. I didn't try any of the other remedies that I know are out there, so I am always careful not to guinea pig you folks into an OldOyler 'speriment!

But please don't think I wouldn't listen to what you are saying in general, your post was very good.

I think most folks are just trying to make sure that the common solution we all found gets featured prominently (regardless of medical condition being discussed). And it's not that it's an exclusive treatment, just that FC is the place to really get it refined and blasted deep into our medical problems! (Hmm... I think my Yocan Torch is calling me...)

Oh and in addition to chronic pain, I suffer pretty horribly from PTSD (pretty solid recluse), and cannabis has treated both problems for me.

I bookmarked those studies, can't wait to read them over the weekend!

Sorry I got long-winded, just didn't want to leave you hanging.

:peace:

Peace and good things everyone.
 
Receptor

Receptor

Well-Known Member
Alternet.org "MDMA Could Be on the Market Legally by 2021"
Posted a few references in the "VaporLounge" Shrooms and Cancer.....fascinating
study, started by Lwien.
I find it interesting to see the "market" timing in all of this in terms of
PHARMAs syntetics.
www.maps.org for some quality references.

Soorry cant link......DeadHead....Cannabis...Less is Best!
 
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Receptor,
Elbuort19

Elbuort19

Well-Known Member
MinnBobber said:
Does anyone have a link to Israeli PTSD study. I've searched and searched and found references to such a study that was not complete, but quoted as having "spectacular results" so far.

Minnesota is having important State Health Dept meeting to discuss adding some med conditions, including PTSD. I attended the first meeting this week and studies carry more weight with the panel looking at the issue.

So, I'm looking for any studies in cannabis and PTSD.

Thanks
It is urgent that we get PTSD added as we send our vets off to dirty duty and when they come home with dirty problems, feds say fuck you, take these really dangerous big pharma drugs but no cannabis.
Time for change is now.
Click to expand...


I wish you luck in getting PTSD added to your states medical cannabis list. I used to have a few links that I collected over the years but can't locate currently. I'll check with a colleague that might still have it. Don't get your hopes up though because when I worked with him he was pretty useless but you never know. Maybe now that I'm not around anymore he's actually had to do his work. lol

This is not anything you can use to help with your fight but you last comment spurred this story on for me so the following ramblings and lack of proper paragraph usage below is sort of your fault. lol
In my former line of work we often came across individuals suffering from severe PTSD and the treatment was always antidepressants, antipsychotics & benzos, give or take one or two. There was no talk therapy, EMDR or CBT, just pills. In some cases I watched people on these cocktails for 2 decades but in every case guess what I saw...no positive change. In many their quality of life became worse as some people with PTSD from the tricyclic antidepressant days will attest to. Keep in mind these are all severe cases so perhaps these meds are effective in milder cases...IDK. Anyway back in 07 I started traveling every 4 months (on my dime that's why it was only every 4 months) to a Combat Arms bases here in Canada to counsel a couple of soldiers because they had told me they weren't talking to their psychologists. They don't understand, they don't know, they weren't there, fuck them! Sound familiar? In one particular case, the worst one I came across, you wouldn't believe the amount of pharmaceutical drugs he was prescribed and every time I went there his symptoms were worse. This went on for 5 or 6 years until his depression and suicidal episodes became so severe that he never left his home for a month which gave the Military the excuse they needed to medically release him for non-compliance with treatment. I was so pissed when I heard this because the JPSU is required to check on these individuals, I think weekly but don't remember exact time frame, but in this case no one did, they just pushed him out the door first chance they got. I flew there when I heard this and things were bad. It had only been a little over 2 months since I saw him last but he was at least 30lbs lighter, his home looked like a crime scene minus the police tape, his hygiene was in extreme decline and he was very bitter with feelings of betrayal and a loss of identity. After a couple of weeks I was getting pressure to return home because my wife was working full time and raising a newborn on her own. I reluctantly left because I was worried my next trip would be early to attend a funeral. I was going to say at one point "long story short" but it looks like that ship has sailed. lol Anyway 4 months pass, numerous phone calls here and there, says he is doing better and sounds better but people with PTSD can be great actors because many have been "pretending" to be Ok for years so I was skeptical. When I went for my next trip there were obvious improvements in the issues above. I wanted to know what changed and this is when I first learned that when they are medically released they are cut off from Military doctors, psychologists & psychiatrist. So lets see medical release in the Military really means take away career/identity/income and cut off access to doctors and other health care professionals. In addition many have lost their family by the time a medical release comes...anyone see what this is a recipe for? So what changed? After being told not to come back to a local clinic, some civilian doctors don't want to deal with these guys, he went off all prescribed meds cold turkey. BTW that's a bad idea! After riding out what he describes as a couple of months of hell he was helped by another soldier to get a prescription for cannabis. Over the past 3 years I've seen improvements in several of his PTSD symptoms but just in those couple of months there was a dramatic change in his sleep patterns, irritability decreased significantly and his PTSD induced agoraphobia was all but gone. He's no socialite by any stretch but he is able to go outside in public and not have a panic attack which is huge for anyone that's experienced this. The biggest change was not feeling like I was talking to a dead man. He now talked about future plans and things he wanted to do, people don't usually plan for the future if they don't plan to be in it. Been through more than 4 dozen suicides + however many since I stopped counting 8 years ago and they don't get any easier so to say I was relieved would be an understatement. I only have contact with a handful of soldiers with PTSD using cannabis but in every case I've seen improvements in their symptoms which is all any of these drugs are suppose to do but very few actually will in my limited experience. I know not overly helpful but keep up the fight because that's the only way things will change.


Satty said:
www.abcan.ca
Awesome medicine, yes my friend. Licensed Producer it is.
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OT $14/gram!!! Yikes that better be some incredible weed. Shop around there are LP's producing good bud for 1/2 that and mediocre bud for almost 1/3rd that cost. I've not tried them so I won't crap on their product but every LP I've come across selling for that price had inferior product and IMO are just doing a VAC money grab. MedReleaf is a good example...highest price product was $15/gram but every strain, except 2, tasted the same like one of those pine tree car air fresheners on steroids. Why would all strains (indica, sativa or hybrid) taste the same, especially at these prices? I'd tell you why but it should be obvious so I'll leave it at that. I will say that when VAC cuts back from covering 10 grams a day to 3 a bunch of LP's will have to rethink their operation or they will be gone as quick as they came...good riddance!
 
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Elbuort19,
S

Satty

Member
I couldn't afford $14.00 a gram, nor do I need to purchase at that price.As for Medreleaf it's all about money.
All the LPs are quite the story, there here to stay.
 
Elbuort19

Elbuort19

Well-Known Member
Satty said:
I couldn't afford $14.00 a gram, nor do I need to purchase at that price.As for Medreleaf it's all about money.
All the LPs are quite the story, there here to stay.
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Yeah me too! That would cost me $84 a day @ $14 a gram. I usually pickup an extra 60g of trim every month in addition to my regular order. That way if I want to be wasteful and chain vape for 12hrs I don't have to worry where my next meal is coming from. lol

Medreleaf & Bedrocan suck! I would have used "IMO" but its a fact so fuck that! Peace Naturals & Aphria aren't much better but its been a couple of years since I had those so grain of salt. BTW the $4 trim I get is better than any product I've tried from the previous 4 mentioned and I tried them all...fucking ridiculous! Problem is a lot of guys see the high prices so they think its top shelf and its far from it. I know a lot of my Army buds never had cannabis before they got PTSD so if you had nothing to compare to you think its good. Just switched a couple to Aurora on my last trip. Broken Coast & Aurora are my current faves. Neither has large stock and Aurora has been plagued the last couple months with all low THC strains like 15% and less. I hit one strain back in September that was the best I've ever tried for my medical conditions and haven't seen it since. Fuck! lol
 
Elbuort19,
S

Satty

Member
I just got the Aurora LA Conferential and it's one of the best I have had from them.They call it Snow Dome and it shimmers.
 
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