cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
"Should" is a wish, a recommendation. "Have to" is an obligation with no choice involved.
Islamophobia......
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
It's one thing for a Muslim in America to denounce radicalism. It's quite another for a Muslim in the middle east to do so. There is a much greater potential for serious retaliation against the person and his/her family in the middle east. Even in developed nations like France running afoul of radicalism with a cartoon can get you killed.
And yet we are saying that Muslims must be more vocal in denouncing terrorism that hangs it's hat on their religion. I don't disagree .... but I wanted to make sure we're not losing sight of how much standing up and being vocal could cost.
The world is bombarded with news on terrorism and the majority of it contains the word Muslim in the article/video somewhere. Stereotypes abound based on the one sided publicity and yes....that stereotype could be and should be fought by large groups and highly recognized, highly placed Muslim leaders holding political office and those with religious standing. My question is: Would that be news worthy enough to be heard over the din of the terrorism related news? Would it get anywhere near the same amount of coverage? I would hope it would without that large group, political or religious leader being harmed to gain that coverage.
And yet we are saying that Muslims must be more vocal in denouncing terrorism that hangs it's hat on their religion. I don't disagree .... but I wanted to make sure we're not losing sight of how much standing up and being vocal could cost.
The world is bombarded with news on terrorism and the majority of it contains the word Muslim in the article/video somewhere. Stereotypes abound based on the one sided publicity and yes....that stereotype could be and should be fought by large groups and highly recognized, highly placed Muslim leaders holding political office and those with religious standing. My question is: Would that be news worthy enough to be heard over the din of the terrorism related news? Would it get anywhere near the same amount of coverage? I would hope it would without that large group, political or religious leader being harmed to gain that coverage.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
My idea of "have to" is an obligation. When referring to "should" it's the right thing to do. I think that "have to" has a negative feel to it, "should" is more positive. Just my interpretation and only my opinion.
I think folks are afraid or worried about something that is unknown to them. My little area of America doesn't have a lot of diversity. Until the last few years I didn't know much about the Muslim religion, I still don't know a lot but I do know a little, probably not enough though.
My mom was a strong Christian woman and brought me up to respect everyone's religion because it's all one God. I never told her because it would have broken her heart but I'm more of an Agnostic. I never went to church much when I grew up and was on my own. I always went to church when I lived at home. So I know quite a bit about the Christian Bible.
My mom was married to an asshole (my dad) I always tried to make her happy. I wanted her to have some enjoyment - her religion and a sweet daughter. Thank goodness she lived a long life and had many years without him after he died from CHF (emphysema). So you better Fuckcombustion. You can get CHF from smoking cannabis as well.
I think folks are afraid or worried about something that is unknown to them. My little area of America doesn't have a lot of diversity. Until the last few years I didn't know much about the Muslim religion, I still don't know a lot but I do know a little, probably not enough though.
My mom was a strong Christian woman and brought me up to respect everyone's religion because it's all one God. I never told her because it would have broken her heart but I'm more of an Agnostic. I never went to church much when I grew up and was on my own. I always went to church when I lived at home. So I know quite a bit about the Christian Bible.
My mom was married to an asshole (my dad) I always tried to make her happy. I wanted her to have some enjoyment - her religion and a sweet daughter. Thank goodness she lived a long life and had many years without him after he died from CHF (emphysema). So you better Fuckcombustion. You can get CHF from smoking cannabis as well.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
One would think he was referring to the call to Mainstream Muslims to condemn jihad.
Huh?Maybe I'm a bit dense but who or what are you referring to?
He was referring to this:
<--------- is that a ninja orShame on you FC
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howie105
Well-Known Member
Huh?
Oops I failed at a cut and paste, apologies. TeeJay1952 is correct.
This is a wonderful thread! Farid, you are providing a very valuable perspective that helps us non-Muslims have a greater understanding of the background of some of the conflicts in the Muslim world.
As a Nichiren/Soka Gakkai Buddhist, I would say our beliefs are closer to Humanism, believing in the Buddha Nature/Godhead of all living beings (even the assholes). It is a matter of bringing out that aspect in order to win over the also-ever present negative parts of our lives. We also believe that, as someone else here said, the best way to "prove" the validity of a religion is by how one deals with one's own life.
There Are of course many beliefs/virtues most religions have in common. Without intending to put down anyone's belief system, one of the issues I see is that the Abrahamic religions (Judeo-Christian and Muslim) have a strong component of authoritarianism, as in "these are the rules." This served a valuable purpose in terms of establishing moral codes of behavior in pretty barbaric times. We believe it is up to us as individual humans to transform our own lives and the world for the better, by taking personal responsibility for our destiny. This definitely includes speaking out strongly for truth and justice!
We all share the destiny of living on this planet in such a turbulent, hate-filled era, and I am glad to see efforts like this thread aimed at creating more mutual understanding and appreciation of other cultures.
As a Nichiren/Soka Gakkai Buddhist, I would say our beliefs are closer to Humanism, believing in the Buddha Nature/Godhead of all living beings (even the assholes). It is a matter of bringing out that aspect in order to win over the also-ever present negative parts of our lives. We also believe that, as someone else here said, the best way to "prove" the validity of a religion is by how one deals with one's own life.
There Are of course many beliefs/virtues most religions have in common. Without intending to put down anyone's belief system, one of the issues I see is that the Abrahamic religions (Judeo-Christian and Muslim) have a strong component of authoritarianism, as in "these are the rules." This served a valuable purpose in terms of establishing moral codes of behavior in pretty barbaric times. We believe it is up to us as individual humans to transform our own lives and the world for the better, by taking personal responsibility for our destiny. This definitely includes speaking out strongly for truth and justice!
We all share the destiny of living on this planet in such a turbulent, hate-filled era, and I am glad to see efforts like this thread aimed at creating more mutual understanding and appreciation of other cultures.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I wonder what this thread would be like if the internet was around during the Crusades.
olysh pops
Well-Known Member
In european country I do not remember "moderate catholics" uniting and with a singular strong, very visible message, stating that they denounce radical fundamentalism and all of it's actions, during The Troubles.
Why "moderate muslims" now should ?
Why "moderate muslims" now should ?
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lwien
Well-Known Member
lwien
Well-Known Member
If they want to stem the tide of Islamophobia, they have to. If they don't, than they don't have to. Simple as that.....
olysh pops
Well-Known Member
My ask is why some catholics can be terrorists and "moderate catholics" feel they do not have to denounce it ?
Because it's an evidence : huge majority of catholics are moderate. Same for muslims. Largest muslim country is Indonesia, 255 millions people.
In France and Belgium millions of muslims are french or belgian as everyone. If 15 were crazy it is not sufficient to destroy millions muslims credibility.
Using "moderate muslim" expression convey idea that most of muslim are not moderate. This is IMO what should be fight.
Because it's an evidence : huge majority of catholics are moderate. Same for muslims. Largest muslim country is Indonesia, 255 millions people.
In France and Belgium millions of muslims are french or belgian as everyone. If 15 were crazy it is not sufficient to destroy millions muslims credibility.
Using "moderate muslim" expression convey idea that most of muslim are not moderate. This is IMO what should be fight.
howie105
Well-Known Member
The thread would probably open up with a graphic like this:
I am an atheist so to me it’s just about fear and (wait for it) loathing as a tool of social manipulation.
howie105
Well-Known Member
Because one should answer for their own actions not those of others. IMO
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I'm not sure I'm familiar with any "catholic terrorists" claiming that their religion is driving their violence. None are claiming to be on a jihad for jesus. Yet that is what the pretend Muslims are saying is their motivation. There are no "holy wars" for modern christians, real or imagined.
I'm not here to defend christianity, I happen to think the world would be a better place with no religion at all, but you are trying to show parallels where none exist. Or at least where I don't see them.
Farid
Well-Known Member
I disagree, "the cause" was certainly motivated by the sentiment that Catholics in Ireland were being mistreated by Protestants. There are degrees, however, and the IRA were not nearly as bad as ISIS. But there are certainly Christian groups in Africa which have barbaric practices on par with ISIS (mass rape, torture, etc.)
I would say Serb Orthodox Christian terrorists who carried out ethnic cleansing in the Krajina Valley in the mid 90's are on par with ISIS. Both groups carried out ethnic cleansing under the command of a pseudo state (Serb occupied Bosnia, and ISIS occupied Iraq). Both groups detained and imprisoned many of those who did not share their ethnicity. Both groups used rape as a tactic in war. And the Serbs were certainly motivated by religion (every side was in Bosnia). Just look at the propaganda that was used to unite Serbian Yugoslavians against the Croatians and the Bosnians. It wasn't Yugoslav nationalist propaganda that encouraged them, but Serbian Orthodox Christian propaganda.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@Farid you are a treasure trove of useful info. Most of us don't hear a lot of this. The mass media cherry picks what it exposes and shows to the audience.
We need to have a world that's safer for its citizens. It seems like religion is always getting in the way of that. The evil guys capitalize on people's poverty, fears, anger and unhappiness.
We can't understand another's anger until we've walked in their shoes.
We need to have a world that's safer for its citizens. It seems like religion is always getting in the way of that. The evil guys capitalize on people's poverty, fears, anger and unhappiness.
We can't understand another's anger until we've walked in their shoes.
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stickstones
Vapor concierge
There is so little real information being reported int he US these days...I also appreciate what you are sharing here @Farid
http://www.armyofgod.com and the KKK come to mind.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
"Numerous organizations have also recognized Anti-abortion extremism as a form of Christian terrorism.[7]"
Farid
Well-Known Member
This highlights the absurdity of much of Maher's Islamophobia. In the video he debates with a moderate Muslim. When talking about the Koran, Maher gets all of his information from Sam Harris' book. Sam Harris, like Maher is a well known islamophobe, and the fact that Maher is referencing his book just shows how absurd his positions are. It would be like a Christian referencing the Bible when debating with a scientist (which does happen, but religious people should learn not to debate with science). Or a conservative referencing a book written by Anne Coulter when debating a Liberal.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I like Maher's viewpoints on a lot of things, but I don't agree with him here. Has he even read the Koran? To argue a point of a religious book based on someone else's interpretation of it without being able to provide verification is dumb.
I've studied large parts of the Bible, and read just a tiny bit of the Koran, but I came away from both books feeling like they were more similar than different. There is a lot of fucked up stuff in the Bible...genocide, homophobia, etc. and to think extremist Muslims are getting their instruction from the Koran is in error, imo.
I'm baffled that Maher thinks it's a Muslim problem. It's a human problem and the flavor of the day is Muslim.
I've studied large parts of the Bible, and read just a tiny bit of the Koran, but I came away from both books feeling like they were more similar than different. There is a lot of fucked up stuff in the Bible...genocide, homophobia, etc. and to think extremist Muslims are getting their instruction from the Koran is in error, imo.
I'm baffled that Maher thinks it's a Muslim problem. It's a human problem and the flavor of the day is Muslim.
TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
Bill, The Pope, an Imam all have one thing in common. Not only do they know what is good for them.....they know what is good for me.