Is vaping as good as we think/hope?

[Smoker]

More interesting thoughts and info guys, and some good links too. Id just like to point out that im not trying to argue for smoke over vapour. Im fully in agreement that vapour is much better. My reason for making the thread was to question exactly how safe vaping alone is (not in comparison to combustion)

But that's not what I am arguing, please reread my posts. I've been saying that just because it is percieved as healthier than smoking doesn't give it a free pass.

Yeah, I guess we're in agreement then, because thats my point too. Maybe I got the wrong jist of what you were saying.

Originally I perceived vaping to be non hazardous and did give it a free pass. The reason for the thread is to question that free pass and to find out if vaping alone still causes problems

 

[420engineer]

the gunk build up in vapes is the condensation of oils from the plant. the same gunk in a combustion device is very different due to the high temps it went through, and is condensation from smoke, ie, tar, and not the same thing as the vape oils at all. we can eat and digest the vape oil, but we cannot do the same with smoking tar, hence why that will reside in your lungs, and cause tumours etc

 

[darbarikanada]

Ander: please explain avatar...

 

[zor]

we can eat and digest the vape oil, but we cannot do the same with smoking tar, hence why that will reside in your lungs, and cause tumours etc

Sorry to nitpick but what does the digestibility of a residue have to do on the impact it may have on your lungs? These are two very different systems.

 

[420engineer]

our bodies can absorb it through bodily tissues, be that ingested or inhaled, in a way that tar simply can't be, that's why the likes of the Volcano is registered as a medical device, despite depositing oils in the bags.

 

[Smoker]

I have a question... does everyone here vape solely herbs, or do some of you vape tobacco as well, like me?

 

[zor]

our bodies can absorb it through bodily tissues, be that ingested or inhaled, in a way that tar simply can't be, that's why the likes of the Volcano is registered as a medical device, despite depositing oils in the bags.

From what I know, transport of compounds through our digestive system is markedly different than gas diffusion in our lungs. Water that is usually so easily absorbed in our large intestine accumulates in our lungs (e.g. from pneumonia) instead. How do we know that residue from vaping doesn't deposit onto the alveoli and, instead of being "cleaned up" or absorbed, over time accumulates and negatively affects lung function? Perhaps in high enough concentration one can do irreversible damage to the cilia in our lungs and lower our threshold or ability to cough and expectorate. Etc etc etc.

And then there's the bigger question regarding the above, how much of this actually even matters physiologically? Maybe it's all insignificant but it certainly is deserving of study IMO. I'm just calling out the possibilities and what seems to be a far more complicated system and environment than what we are collectively imagining.

Again, we need to know the properties of the vapor, oils, residue, etc before any impactful statements about health safety can really be assessed. This is common in medicine: witness the three phases for clinical trials (at least as done in the US), patient safety gets assessed and approved, and note that many new drugs get pulled for newly discovered side effects or interactions that were never detected during testing.

 

[Hashtag46&2]

Two things to help alleviate some of the concerns in regards to vaping:

Vaporize in moderation
Run (or any kind of cardio that gets you breathing hard for at least 30 minutes every other day)

I do both.....

lwien..
I want to thank you (again), I had read this about you previously, and thought...

WTF am I doing then? If lwien does this, I surely can.

It's now 2 years since my bilateral hip replacement, it's time to get moving again.

So, I dusted off the treadmill...

I now walk 30 minutes every morning, it has been 2 weeks, and I already feel better in general.
It can be a real bitch on certain days, especially when we have drastic changes in the weather.

But, you certainly gave me the proverbial..
"Kick in the ass"

So, I feel obligated to show my gratitude.
All the best.

 

[ander]

Ander: please explain avatar...

Well... I could make you the same question..! I feel angry like the Panda, anyway.

I have a question... does everyone here vape solely herbs, or do some of you vape tobacco as well, like me?

I tried, and didn't like it at all. Now I'm on the way of the Holy One and nothing else... except for the Sage (salvia officinalis).

How do we know that residue from vaping doesn't deposit onto the alveoli and, instead of being "cleaned up" or absorbed, over time accumulates and negatively affects lung function?

Since no one of us is ready to give his body to the science... time will answer. Long life to all of you, brothers!

 

[lwien]

I now walk 30 minutes every morning, it has been 2 weeks, and I already feel better in general.

.......

 

[420engineer]

From what I know, transport of compounds through our digestive system is markedly different than gas diffusion in our lungs. Water that is usually so easily absorbed in our large intestine accumulates in our lungs (e.g. from pneumonia) instead. How do we know that residue from vaping doesn't deposit onto the alveoli and, instead of being "cleaned up" or absorbed, over time accumulates and negatively affects lung function? Perhaps in high enough concentration one can do irreversible damage to the cilia in our lungs and lower our threshold or ability to cough and expectorate. Etc etc etc.

And then there's the bigger question regarding the above, how much of this actually even matters physiologically? Maybe it's all insignificant but it certainly is deserving of study IMO. I'm just calling out the possibilities and what seems to be a far more complicated system and environment than what we are collectively imagining.

Again, we need to know the properties of the vapor, oils, residue, etc before any impactful statements about health safety can really be assessed. This is common in medicine: witness the three phases for clinical trials (at least as done in the US), patient safety gets assessed and approved, and note that many new drugs get pulled for newly discovered side effects or interactions that were never detected during testing.

The Volcano is classed as a medical device, I don't think that would happen if it deposited crap in your lungs. Also, empirical/anecdotal evidence held me that it does not.

I'll continue to hold and voice my own opinion on the matter, of that's OK with you?

 

[zor]

No need to get testy @420engineer, of course it's fine with me that you hold your own opinion

The point my third paragraph was trying to illustrate is also captured here and numerous other articles:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...vestigates-dangerous-medical-devices/index.ht
Just because there is a process and title for deeming something a "medical device" doesn't free it from risk.

 

[Alan Partridge]

I think if my lungs looked anything like my Mighty CU I'd have died a long time ago. I think the lungs must do a pretty good job of absorbing the resin, and I don't think you get anything like the gunk in the CU or a water pipe.

Not to say vaping is 100% safe, we can't say that for certain and absolutely need more studies. But I feel great since I started vaping and stopped smoking.

 

[lwien]

The Volcano is classed as a medical device, I don't think that would happen if it deposited crap in your lungs.

The development of ALL medical devices as well as all pharmaceuticals is based on a risk/reward ratio. The Cano is classed as a medical device simply because it is deemed by those testing authorities to be a "safer" way to ingest cannabis, not to be confused with a totally harmless way to ingest cannabis.

And, btw, that classification does not mean that the 'Cano is healthier to use than other vaporizers on the market being that other vaporizers may, and I would say more probable than not, have not gone through the same testing procedures.

 

[MinnBobber]

The development of ALL medical devices as well as all pharmaceuticals is based on a risk/reward ratio. The Cano is classed as a medical device simply because it is deemed by those testing authorities to be a "safer" way to ingest cannabis, not to be confused with a totally harmless way to ingest cannabis.

..................................................................................
X2
I'd say that the act of depositing vapor oil of any type on your lung alveoli is bad. The lungs have to work to clear the gunk etc. They like air exchange-period, not oil deposits. Bad effects vs good effects comes into play however.

The other element is what is deposited, is that substance helpful (cannabis) or harmful (nicotine and tar), how long does it take to clear, etc.

Cannabis oil deposits on the lungs thankfully bring a list of good effects that IMO outweigh the bad elements by 100:1, 1,000:1, 10,000:1 ??

On the reward side, cannabis vapor brings to the table the ability to pump up the endocannabinoid system which helps every single body and mind system, to help the body move toward homeostasis , to help your own body deal with almost all mental/physical/emotional/spiritual problems.
Cannabis IS the ultimate natural medicine.

My final vote is 1 part bad on the lungs : 100,000 parts good that cannabis brings.

This opinion is also reinforced by the research which SEEMS to show that even heavy cannabis smokers (inhaling all that nasty crap) don't show an increase in lung cancer. This research topic is not definitive but it points to no increase in lung cancer. And I'll shoot from the hip and say vaping is 100 times safer than smoking.

 

[darbarikanada]

this isn't exactly 'based on a comprehensive review of all the data', but: with all the (well-funded) forces who'd love nothing more than to demonstrate negative health effects from cannabis, if there really were something solid, it'd be front-page news. they've been trying since the end of prohibition to scare people away from cannabis (my favorite: acc. to 'smoke signals', the whole reason it's called marijuana was the anit-cannabis forces' attempt to associate it with Mexicans - oh no Mr. Bill!). they haven't come up with a thing (I wonder if there's anything else that's been subjected to such enduring scrutiny), especially if you take out combustion. you can't 'prove a negative', so nobody will ever be able to say cannabis is 100% harmless, but, after decades of trying, nothing's been found, so if you're doing a 'triage' of things to worry about, cannabis' dangers can be pretty far down on the list.

 

[420engineer]

The development of ALL medical devices as well as all pharmaceuticals is based on a risk/reward ratio. The Cano is classed as a medical device simply because it is deemed by those testing authorities to be a "safer" way to ingest cannabis, not to be confused with a totally harmless way to ingest cannabis.

And, btw, that classification does not mean that the 'Cano is healthier to use than other vaporizers on the market being that other vaporizers may, and I would say more probable than not, have not gone through the same testing procedures.

I don't recall having said it was totally harmless. I did compare the relative harm of tar to vape condensation, though. I stand by that comparison, and my opinion on the matter.

I worked in the medical device industry for years, so I'm aware of the processes and procedures of getting devices approved and certified.

 

[CarolKing]

WA state needed to crack down on a cannabis farmer ( WA state approved for rec use) who was using some harmful pesticides. There was cannabis that couldn't be used. Not sure what will happen to it?

I think that's where we need to be concerned is how your cannabis was grown. Over the past year and a half I've been going to a organic cannabis farmer's market.

If you are able and live in a medical state try looking for organic, pesticide free cannabis.

 

[420engineer]

my produce is 100% organic, no chemicals at all, just watered & fed from our compost heap, with a little neem oil from time to time to keep the bugs away

 

[lwien]

I worked in the medical device industry for years, so I'm aware of the processes and procedures of getting devices approved and certified.

What you said was:

The Volcano is classed as a medical device, I don't think that would happen if it deposited crap in your lungs.

and my reply was to indicate that just because it is classed as a medical device does not mean that it doesn't deposit crap in your lungs. It just means that it may deposit less crap. Breathing in vapor that has condensed on the inside of a plastic bag has to contain "some" crap, eh?

Again, it all comes down to the risk/reward ratio, be it a medical device or not.

 

[420engineer]

I'm well aware of what I posted, thanks. Crap comes from combustion in my example. The Volcano does not combust. There is no crap from it IMO. I was comparing the difference between smoke-crap and vape-condensation, which any one could see.

So, I'd like to thank you for breaking up the conversational flow with your informative interjection and clarifying that point. It's been good to be preached to, very informative, thanks.

 

[kellya86]

Soo if I was to blow up a mikly vape bag and squeeze it up my arse, would I get high????

All this talk of vape crap...

 

[lwien]

It's been good to be preached to, very informative, thanks.

The LAST thing I want to do is to "preach" to anyone but rather offer up perspectives for others to consider.

There are many here, both active members and lurkers who view these threads in their search for a vaporizer and my responses are more geared towards them in helping them along this path than anything else.

I respect your opinions but I felt that those opinions needed to be put into some kind of context, as do most opinions, including my own.

 

[Hashtag46&2]

this isn't exactly 'based on a comprehensive review of all the data', but: with all the (well-funded) forces who'd love nothing more than to demonstrate negative health effects from cannabis, if there really were something solid, it'd be front-page news. they've been trying since the end of prohibition to scare people away from cannabis (my favorite: acc. to 'smoke signals', the whole reason it's called marijuana was the anit-cannabis forces' attempt to associate it with Mexicans - oh no Mr. Bill!). they haven't come up with a thing (I wonder if there's anything else that's been subjected to such enduring scrutiny), especially if you take out combustion. you can't 'prove a negative', so nobody will ever be able to say cannabis is 100% harmless, but, after decades of trying, nothing's been found, so if you're doing a 'triage' of things to worry about, cannabis' dangers can be pretty far down on the list.

I love this post...

For those that don't know..
THC, THC-A, THC-V, CBD, CBN, and CBG were all patented by our US Government in 1974 whilst still under Schedule CI classification.

Schedule CI mandates that zero funding from our Government will be used for research.

I strictly do not use the word "Marijuana "... It is Cannabis Sativa or Cannabis Indica.

When I do use the word, I spell it with the traditional "H" Marihuana.

I became a Pain Ambassador for The US Pain Foundation to spread the word..

To all "Medicinal Cannabis Patients "
As long as we are lighting our beloved plant on fire and inhaling the resulting smoke, we will never achieve our goals...
Knowledge is power, and we must utilize said knowledge as our weapons to
Remove the CI status.

I could go on and on, however, I'm off topic..

Thanks for your post!

WA state needed to crack down on a cannabis farmer ( WA state approved for rec use) who was using some harmful pesticides. There was cannabis that couldn't be used. Not sure what will happen to it?

I think that's where we need to be concerned is how your cannabis was grown. Over the past year and a half I've been going to a organic cannabis farmer's market.

If you are able and live in a medical state try looking for organic, pesticide free cannabis.

Indeed!!!

Look for the signs, true Organic growers are extremely proud to say "we are 100% Organic "
It will often be included in the Title of their Shops...

 

[420engineer]

The LAST thing I want to do is to "preach" to anyone but rather offer up perspectives for others to consider.

There are many here, both active members and lurkers who view these threads in their search for a vaporizer and my responses are more geared towards them in helping them along this path than anything else.

I respect your opinions but I felt that those opinions needed to be put into some kind of context, as do most opinions, including my own.

It was in context, I was comparing smoke deposits against those from a medically approved delivery device. I couldn't have been more clear, and insinuated nothing else beyond a personal opinion, based on said facts.

who appointed you judge, jury & executioner of the correctly applied context of others people's opinions?

that's rhetorical, by the way, I don't want another lesson, thanks.