is this conduction convection hybrid?

[g1zm0]

Hello everyone! I am still new to vaping and still learning a lot. I have a G Pro vaporizer( rebranded titan ig). Grenco Science claims that it is a "true convection" but im not really sure. Some people said its conduction but I disagree with that.
I actually think its a hybrid and not conduction for couple of reasons:
A lot of holes on the bottom of the chamber, slow heat up time (30-50 sec), herb never combusts.
Here's how I think it works: something heats up the metal chamber to a certain temperature. when you draw, the air goes thru the holes on the sides parallel to the chamber. then the air goes thru the heating element(idk if its on the bottom or on the sides), heats up, and gets into the chamber thu the holes on the bottom and heats up the herb together with the hot metal chamber itself. Thus there is conduction + convection.
What do you guys think about my theory? does it make sense? Also whats ur opinion on how this vape works and do u think its really convection?
Thank you!
p.s. doesnt Pinnacle Pro work the same or in a very similar way?

Link to the vaporizer:
http://www.grencoscience.com/products/gpro-herbalvaporizer

Picture of the chamber:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...X4LawOkpctmPDb8ZyFaujo4iVb5DXyEM=w677-h387-nc

 

[Delta3DStudios]

A lot of holes on the bottom of the chamber, slow heat up time (30-50 sec), herb never combusts.

Ok, first off, something to remember - pretty much every vaporizers uses conduction and convection to heat the material. Those three conclusions in no way indicate it's a convection or a conduction vaporizer. If the herb combusts, it's not a vaporizer.

The PRIMARY heating method used by any vaporizer may be either conduction or convection, but that doesn't mean that's the only source of heat.

Without owning and using a Gpro/Titan, I can't comment on what the primary heating is. But in general, if the oven touching the herb is hot, then it uses conduction to transmit the heat into the load.

Convection based vaporizers preheat the air prior to entering into the load, the oven surrounding the material does not "heat up". When you stop hitting a convection vaporizer, the material stops cooking. Unlike a conduction vaporizer which still cooks the herb for a bit even after the vaporizer is turned off!

*However* you go get *some* convection even with many portable conduction vaporizers through the action of cool air flowing through the chamber and into the load.

In the case of my Indica vaporizer, the oven is encased in aluminum. Aside from the oven door. It's a 100% conduction vaporizer. Yet I still get *some* convection through the cool air entering the oven door, flowing through the material, and up the vapor path to my lips. It's not a pure convection heat because it's cool air which heats as you pull it through the load. I've found typically, the slower you pull, the more "convection" heating you get with a "conduction" vaporizer.

 

[g1zm0]

Wait so where is the air being pre-heated in the convection vape? Is there a separate chamber or place just for the air to get pre heated? Does that mean that Pinnacle Pro is conduction also? Cuz is very similar to my vape and it looks like it works the same way

 

[Delta3DStudios]

Wait so where is the air being pre-heated in the convection vape? Is there a separate chamber or place just for the air to get pre heated? Does that mean that Pinnacle Pro is conduction also? Cuz is very similar to my vape and it looks like it works the same way

Look up the E-Nano - there is a ceramic heater in a steel tube. The cool air enters at the bottom of the chamber and preheats before it enters the glass stem bowl where the herb is loaded (Technically, the heater is about 15mm away from the top of the long heater itself).

Although, as I mentioned, most vapes use a mix of both conduction and convection. So my nano benefit's from the conduction transfer of heat to the glass stem (we call it "heat soaking") - if we let the glass "heat soak" for 20-30 seconds before we start hitting, the vapor density is higher since the outer walls have been heated and transmit (through conduction) some of the heat into the load prior to the main convection action happens with the hit.

Just because two vapes look similar doesn't exactly mean they are, the components used can have a great impact on the overall performance of a vape. I can't comment on the pinnacle pro since I've never used one, but I'm sure someone else could chime in on what the primary heating method is for the PNP.

 

[Stu]

IMO, these vaporizers with constant heat oven designs use very little convection or conduction, but rather heat the goodies with thermal radiation. Conduction requires direct contact (biomass doesn't conduct heat very well) and convection requires flow (no (air)flow is required to create vapor in these devices). Thermal radiation is also how your regular (non-convection) oven cooks your meat loaf.

 

[g1zm0]

Alright thanks for helping guys! I didnt really get the thermal radiation thing lol. Is there any way to test if its convection? Btw arizer solo also has a similar metal chamber with holes. Do u have any experience with and do u know how it transfers heat?

 

[g1zm0]

Wow, that is the best explanation I have ever read. Thank you.


Convection is when hot air is pulled through the herb. Convection designs are usually pretty obvious because they focus on vaping through the movement of hot air rather than roasting in an oven.

Can you explain the difference in design and technology of portable convection and conduction? What are some examples of both?
Im sorry for being such a noob lol. Im just still trying to figure out whether my vape is convection, conduction, or hybrid.
thanks!

 

[g1zm0]

Convection Vapes

Log Vapes: enano, underdog, HI
Firefly: http://www.thefirefly.com/explore
Volcano Vaporizer: http://www.volcanovaporizer.com/media/wysiwyg/PDF/Banner_Digit_A3.pdf

What you will notice on convection vaporizers is that the heating element is often below or away from the herb chamber. When the element is heated air is required to pull or pump the heat from the element through the herb mass. Convection vaporizers require air movement.

Other types of heating MFLB illustration:

This is the best explanation I have heard on what are being called conduction vapes imo.

Thanks a lot for helping bro! What would u say about Pinnacle Pro?
And if you had to guess would u say that my G Pro is convection, conduction, or both?
vaporizer pic:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/p...u7UlC7tmk-vOGseB6iIYgQnI7qccPnBY=w560-h467-nc

Chamber pic:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p...9LIg1rzKrH0eeT-zkitpPZ-_YvPfW9UQ=w626-h418-nc

 

[max]

Grenco Science claims that it is a "true convection"

If the herb goes in a chamber where the heat is applied, it's not all convection unless the chamber walls are made to NOT product heat (and why would anyone do that?). And if there's heated air flowing as well, it's not all conduction. Does it really matter? Nope.

 

[lwien]

If the herb goes in a chamber where the heat is applied, it's not all convection unless the chamber walls are made to NOT product heat (and why would anyone do that?). And if there's heated air flowing as well, it's not all conduction. Does it really matter? Nope.

In my opinion, what matters more is if a vaporizer has the ability to instantly apply and remove the heat rather than if it's conduction or convection based, for THAT has even more of an impact on efficiency, taste and smell.

 

[g1zm0]

In my opinion, what matters more is if a vaporizer has the ability to instantly apply and remove the heat rather than if it's conduction or convection based, for THAT has even more of an impact on efficiency, taste and smell.

Thats interesting! Do you mean how fast a vape heats up to a certain temp and how fast it cools down when u turn it off? If it takes little time to do that is it more efficient?

 

[lwien]

Thats interesting! Do you mean how fast a vape heats up to a certain temp and how fast it cools down when u turn it off? If it takes little time to do that is it more efficient?

If a vaporizer has the ability to only heat your bud when you are hitting it, it means that it is not constantly cooking your bud as it's heating up, in-between hits and as it's cooling down.

For someone like me, who can partially load up a bowl and have it last for three days, this is a major thing to consider, since I only want to take a few hits and put it away.

 

[g1zm0]

If a vaporizer has the ability to only heat your bud when you are hitting it, it means that it is not constantly cooking your bud as it's heating up, in-between hits and as it's cooling down.

For someone like me, who can partially load up a bowl and have it last for three days, this is a major thing to consider, since I only want to take a few hits and put it away.

Alright I gotcha! Thanks for advice man! What vapes do you use for this kind of vaping?

 

[lwien]

Alright I gotcha! Thanks for advice man! What vapes do you use for this kind of vaping?

As of now, I'm using the MFLB and the LSV but there are many others that can do the same thing. Here are a few:

E-Nano
DBV
SSV
Underdog
FireFly
etc, etc.......

 

[Kaptan]

As of now, I'm using the MFLB and the LSV but there are many others that can do the same thing. Here are a few:

E-Nano
DBV
SSV
Underdog
FireFly
etc, etc.......

You forgot the Elevape smart vape.

 

[g1zm0]

As of now, I'm using the MFLB and the LSV but there are many others that can do the same thing. Here are a few:

E-Nano
DBV
SSV
Underdog
FireFly
etc, etc.......

I actually thought that MFLB is conduction and cooks ur bud the whole time and not only when you take a hit

 

[lwien]

I actually thought that MFLB is conduction and cooks ur bud the whole time and not only when you take a hit

It is conduction/IR but the only time the bud is being cooked is when you are hitting it.

 

[RUDE BOY]

It is conduction/IR but the only time the bud is being cooked is when you are hitting it.

That's true as long as you don't push in the battery when your not hitting it, the mflb will still bake your herb if you engage the heat and not draw on it at all. Don't know why anyone would do that(other than checking if their Box runs cool) but ...

 

[pakalolo]

That's true as long as you don't push in the battery when your not hitting it, the mflb will still bake your herb if you engage the heat and not draw on it at all. Don't know why anyone would do that(other than checking if their Box runs cool) but ...

Heh, by accident? My original LB doesn't have the pushback ring and I've had a hot pocket. "Where is that smell coming from and why is my pocket heating up... eeeek!"

Actually, I've had two and the second one was funny in hindsight. I was hitting the LB and saw someone coming. I don't usually care that people know about my cannabis use, but I did in this case so I quickly shoved it in my pocket—without disengaging the battery. It immediately started heating up and smelling and I had to make a quick excuse and dart out of the room to fix the problem. If he noticed the smell he never mentioned it, but I can't see how he didn't.

I think the whole conduction vs. convection thing is way overblown, and here's why. I have the FlashVAPE, which as far as I know is the only device that does both true convection as well as conduction. I've therefore used it both ways with the same strain, and I can't taste any difference. I have a pretty sensitive palate, so I'm willing to bet that in a blind test, most if not all of you couldn't tell them apart: no difference in taste and no difference in effects.

 

[PPN]

Where I see a true difference between convection and conduction is when I draw on the device, if more I draw on it more I get vapor then I get a true convection device, if the vapor production decrease when you draw harder or a long time you get a conduction based vaporizer (at least for the most part).

 

[pakalolo]

Where I see a true difference between convection and conduction is when I draw on the device, if more I draw on it more I get vapor then I get a true convection device, if the vapor production decrease when you draw harder or a long time you get a conduction based vaporizer (at least for the most part).

That's a good point, and one I haven't paid attention to—but I will. I think you're probably right.

 

[pakalolo]

Transported here from the Crafty thread to avoid a derail:

I've never seen a vape that will allow the user to toggle the conduction and convection elements of it in real-time according to his or her preferences.

Funnily enough the haze has a conduction and convection screen so you can swap between modes. However it sounds gimmicky, vape critic said it does make a difference but didn't go into depth.

The screen undoubtedly lifts the load away from the heating element thereby introducing some element of convection. There will still be a significant amount of radiant heat, depending on how far away the load is moved. The FlashVAPE has had a design like this on the market since the spring of 2013. It works beautifully. Also, if I use the FV S2 battery but without its spacer, I am in 100% conduction mode, but if I simply turn the FV upside down the load moves about 1.5cm away from the heater and reduces radiant heat drastically, but the FV is so powerful that it now works with nearly complete convection. It's not gimmicky at all.

 

[KeroZen]

I think I need to summon @OF here as we also discussed the topic in the Ascent thread. You guys seem to disagree over the radiant (listed as IR above?) heat topic though. As it is a very interesting subject I hope we can exchange our views here to.

The MFLB illustration posted earlier is interesting...

 

[pakalolo]

I think I need to summon @OF here as we also discussed the topic in the Ascent thread. You guys seem to disagree over the radiant (listed as IR above?) heat topic though. As it is a very interesting subject I hope we can exchange our views here to.

The MFLB illustration posted earlier is interesting...

I saw that discussion. I don't disagree with the basic principles that @OF described. I should probably have clarified how I think it works in the FV, and I suppose the Haze as well. IR heats up the screen holding the load, thus if you hold the button long enough then you start to get conduction vapourization. (I just repeated this experiment to see how long it takes: about 30 seconds.) The load is raised about 2mm above the heater element and the only way vapourization could happen is by radiant heat, or IR if you prefer. If you invert the FV then the load is too far away for IR to make any difference. Any vapour produced has to be pure convection.

 

[KeroZen]

I'm not trying to stir shit or anything, as I said I'm just trying to understand better. It's just that on one side, @OF once said: "Heat transfer by radiation is generally very poor at the temperatures we're dealing with and it only happens in significant amounts (like we need to make vapor) when the temperature differences between source and load are big."

Then on the other side, a quick search for "radiant" on the forum reveals plenty of different opinions (including from moderators), and if I'm not mistaken I might even have read the term on some product brochures...

I know one should not generalize, all vapes are designed differently and sometimes a tiny change can have a big impact, it's really not trivial... And well, in the end heat is heat, whatever the source it's the repartition and flow that are important.