Is the Titanium Space Case Grinder Worth it?
- Thread starter Delta3DStudios
- Start date
This pic is an oldie but a goodie. This "was" my SC "Ti" grinder after a wash in PBW, so we can see what's under there. Yes this was a stupid mistake. Never wash anodized stuff in high alkaline solutions.
Yikes, ouch. That sucks! Good to know!
Kief
Medicated
Some real evidence there, I like that. I'm willing to bet that PBW does not cause any reaction with Ti, but there will still be doubters everywhere. So, all we need is someone with a small piece of Ti and some PBW to do a test... then we ALL will know for sure and can start spreading proper information. Has anyone cleaned a Ti nail with PBW?
GreenDragon
Well-Known Member
You can choose to believe it or not.
Did you call or contact Space Case and verify for yourself?
You make bold statements for someone who has not done their due diligence.
I have firsthand knowledge from speaking directly with the manufacturer. The gentleman who answered the phone was very patient with my questions. He understood why I was asking my questions so carefully and repeatedly. He walked with the phone into the manufacturing facility and talked to someone actually making SpaceCase titanium grinders. They assured me repeatedly that they ARE TITANIUM ANODIZED.
Were they wrong/misinformed/lying? I have no way to prove if they were or were not being truthful with me.
Your point about the cost of titanium anodizing being cost prohibitive is not true. Anodizing is an electro-chemical process that oxidizes a surface or deposits oxides to a surface. While titanium is expensive, titanium anodizing is only microns thick. Very, very little is used to anodize an aluminium grinder or other small consumer goods.
*******
From Wikipedia:
Anodized titanium
Selected colors achievable through anodization of titanium.
Anodized titanium is used in a recent generation of dental implants. An anodized oxide layer has a thickness in the range of 30 nanometers (1.2×10−6 in) to several micrometers.[10] Standards for titanium anodizing are given by AMS 2487 and AMS 2488.
Anodizing titanium generates an array of different colors without dyes, for which it is sometimes used in art, costume jewelry, body piercing jewelry and wedding rings. The color formed is dependent on the thickness of the oxide (which is determined by the anodizing voltage); it is caused by the interference of light reflecting off the oxide surface with light traveling through it and reflecting off the underlying metal surface.
*************
I am not a metallurgist but have held and touched titanium and titanium anodized objects.
I own and have used titanium coated drill bits (they are gold colored).
I own and absolutely love my Fiskars titanium anodized non-stick scissors (matte black color).
I won't debate with you about whether or not titanium coated drill bits or Fiskars titanium anodized non-stick scissors actually have titanium on them, but they do stay sharper and have non-stick properties.
I understand that advertisements often use hyperbole to sell their products, but there are many titanium anodized products out there and they are not all liars.
"and it sure as hell wouldn't be black."
Have you ever seen an SR-71 Blackbird?
They are mostly titanium (including the fuselage and wing skins) and they are black and/or dark gunmetal gray. I have touched and felt the skin and various parts of an SR-71, they ARE BLACK.
Sorry Mr. Kief if I sound a little peeved by your rejection of the information that I got. I believe it to be true and have no reason to think I was lied to.
I posted this and the original post from 2011 so that the TRUTH would be known. I feel confidant that SpaceCase Titanium grinders and many other consumer goods are in fact titanium anodized.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Just an aside. There was girl that I was dating about 20 years ago. Her father worked at Skunk Works as one of the chief engineers and developers on the SR-71 as it was going through it's design phase. What a beautiful plane. It was a sad day when they retired it. Weird thing is, is that when it was on the ground, it leaked.........literally. The damn plane hated to be on the ground. 
Last edited:
Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
Nice story @iwien 
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Its my favorite plane as well. Yes it leaked like a sieve. Thats why immediately after takeoff they would refuel it. It would stretch a foot and a half in overall length once at operating altitude and temp and you had to wear a friggin spacesuit to fly it. THAT is bad ass . . .What a beautiful plane. It was a sad day when they retired it. Weird thing is, is that when it was on the ground, it leaked.........literally. The damn plane hated to be on the ground.
Last edited:
lwien
Well-Known Member
Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
Sorry couldn't resist. You are always good for a laugh
lwien
Well-Known Member
Sorry couldn't resist. You are always good for a laugh
And you're always good for a...............
.
Kief
Medicated
No, I don't need to.
I'm sorry, "you said that he said" is simply not enough for me, I need something real to back that up. I have done plenty of searching and can not find anything about "Titanium anodized Aluminum" and until I see a factual reference explaining the process, it's hearsay.
I made no such point about "Titanium anodizing" being cost prohibitive... I said that IF you could coat a grinder in Ti, it would be cost prohibitive.
We are talking about anodizing aluminum here, not Titanium... wrong wikipedia article.*******
From Wikipedia:
Anodized titanium
Selected colors achievable through anodization of titanium.
Anodized titanium is used in a recent generation of dental implants. An anodized oxide layer has a thickness in the range of 30 nanometers (1.2×10−6 in) to several micrometers.[10] Standards for titanium anodizing are given by AMS 2487 and AMS 2488.
Anodizing titanium generates an array of different colors without dyes, for which it is sometimes used in art, costume jewelry, body piercing jewelry and wedding rings. The color formed is dependent on the thickness of the oxide (which is determined by the anodizing voltage); it is caused by the interference of light reflecting off the oxide surface with light traveling through it and reflecting off the underlying metal surface.
*************
Now we can see where you have some of your information crossed. The items you describe here are coated with Titanium nitride not Titanium, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride ... very different, have a read.
Yes, as you said... the blackbird is not black, it is a "gunmetal gray' similar to the color I would expect from something "coated in Ti"... these grinders are black and do not look or feel like Ti. They do look and feel powder-coated.
Manufacturers like to use words to their advantage whenever they can, but even they need to back it up. I'm sorry if you think they lied to you, but it's nothing new.
I have researched this topic multiple times, found other discussions on the web, and have enough firsthand knowledge to boldly make this statement (again): SpaceCase Grinders are NOT coated in Titanium. If you still disagree with me, I'd be happy to read any facts/references that you share.
I do hope you have a nice day.
Ok, enough now - didn't mean to turn this into a pissing match
I ended up splurging on an SCS for $5 less than the small titanium SC I was looking at buying, and I'm happy with my purchase so far.
GreenDragon
Well-Known Member
I apologize to Mr. Kief for pressing the point, but I believe the hyper skepticism in this case is causing the spread of bad information. Also, sorry to Ratchett and others, I don't feel this is beating a dead horse. The horse is very alive. We just don't know if the horse is covered in real fur or were we lied to by those damned shifty horse traders! :-)
Hmmm... It's like the opposite of the God Gene (the God Gene, poorly named, allows someone who has it to make a leap of faith. Whether that is your belief in a higher power or something like extraterrestrials, UFOs, sasquatch, ghosts, zombies, etc.). Maybe there is an Anti God Gene that causes hyper skepticism. :-)
Grinders, scissors, etc. - they do deposit titanium anodizing on aluminium and steel surfaces.
Powder coated - no way. I have four SpaceCase Ti grinders, black, dark purple, gunmetal gray and a gray-rose color. My friend is a powdercoater and has powdercoated numerous objects for me (maybe 30 or 40 things). We live 100 meters from the Pacific and every storm deposits a thin film of salt on everything outdoors. While powdercoating is a wonderful surface protectant, it would be a horrible failure on a grinder. Too soft, it would scratch and mar far too easily.
To the FC community:
I hope everyone understands Mr. kief and I are trying to make sure we are passing on accurate information. We may not agree but hopefully both of our attempts to find out the truth will at least make people aware.
Really? You don't seem like the type to leave any stones unturned, especially the small easy ones. You strike me as someone very careful and who strives to be accurate.
Well... All knowledge is hearsay. The entire sum total of all mankind's knowledge is hearsay. Everything you've ever read or were told by someone else is hearsay. Even if you were a metallurgist, you would have earned your degree by learning from others, hearsay. And the internet... enough said.
Hmmm... It's like the opposite of the God Gene (the God Gene, poorly named, allows someone who has it to make a leap of faith. Whether that is your belief in a higher power or something like extraterrestrials, UFOs, sasquatch, ghosts, zombies, etc.). Maybe there is an Anti God Gene that causes hyper skepticism. :-)
Oops. Damn reading comprehension.
Drillbits - yes, but still a form of titanium.
Grinders, scissors, etc. - they do deposit titanium anodizing on aluminium and steel surfaces.
No. I said black and gunmetal gray. I saw, touched, stroked, and generally got a techwoody from an SR-71 Blackbird. I worked for a major aerospace company for 28 years. The SR-71 Blackbird is almost completely black and gunmetal gray. Different parts and panels vary in color. There are few steel parts. As someone pointed out above, the skin of the aircraft is titanium and composite. According to a source on the web, the skin is 85% titanium and 15% composite (but that is hearsay).
Powder coated - no way. I have four SpaceCase Ti grinders, black, dark purple, gunmetal gray and a gray-rose color. My friend is a powdercoater and has powdercoated numerous objects for me (maybe 30 or 40 things). We live 100 meters from the Pacific and every storm deposits a thin film of salt on everything outdoors. While powdercoating is a wonderful surface protectant, it would be a horrible failure on a grinder. Too soft, it would scratch and mar far too easily.
No. I don't think they lied to me. The point was that while there are some unscrupulous advertisers, not all are liars.
Sorry. All hearsay. :-)
Thank you Mr. Kief. I do appreciate your information and opinions. We are both trying to make sure good information is passed on to the community.
To the FC community:
I hope everyone understands Mr. kief and I are trying to make sure we are passing on accurate information. We may not agree but hopefully both of our attempts to find out the truth will at least make people aware.
Magic9
Plant Enthusiast
GreenDragon said:
I love the discussion. Better suited in the grinder thread maybe (so the info doesn't get buried when/if it's closed.
I was always under the impression that it was Anodized Aluminum with either an Titanium Aluminium Nitride (TiAIN), or an Aluminium Titanium Nitride (AlTiN).
Jared
Cannabis Enthusiast
Just because there's a disagreement doesn't mean it's automatically a pissing match. Both people are presenting the information that they have in the best way they can with as much information to back it up as possible. If that's a pissing match I'd like to see what you consider a discussion or argument. And I don't think the horse will be dead until it's decided for good whether or not it is indeed coated in Ti or not. At this point from where I'm sitting it could go either way.Ok, enough now - didn't mean to turn this into a pissing match
GreenDragon
Well-Known Member
I did a quick Google of TiAlN and AlTiN. Lots of very interesting materials and technologies. Get your geek on!
**********
PVD coating means Physical Vapour Deposition of Titanium, Titanium Aluminium and Chromium. The process is also referred to as Titanium/Titanium Aluminium/ Chromiumplating. The technology behind PVD coating is based upon the principle of plasma acceleration. The method involves purely physical processes, such as low temperature vacuum evaporation with plasma sputter bombardment.
PVD Coating can be used on various materials, such as stainless steel, aluminium, iron, porcelain and certain types of PVC.
The colour of the coating can be varied. The colours currently available for PVD coating are: Gold, Champagne, Nickel silver, Bronze, Copper, Brass, Black, Rose gold, Dark Bronze (Coffee), Red Wine, Rainbow, Blue, Green and Purple.
What's the difference between TiAlN and AlTiN?
The difference has been in the Al/Ti ratio of the film.
TiAlN is typically 50/50 Al/Ti
AlTiN is typically 70/30 Al/Ti
**********
Well... Mr. Kief it looks like we were both half wrong.
No, wait! We were both half correct.
Thanks to Mr. Magic9, it looks like we both stumbled into good information. The titanium coatings in current use all seem to be combinations of titanium and one or more other materials.
NERDS RULE !!!
Magic9
Plant Enthusiast
A handful of reports (without pics for the most part) in the 5 or so years SC has been around.
So what is the Santa Cruz Shredder coated/colored with?
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
This really is not a difficult argument. Names have meaning and misnaming something is deception. Is your watch Gold or Gold plated? They are not the same and one ascribes very different value to the differences. One could call the grinder in question "Titanium coated" or "Titanium Plated", and as long as their is some significant percentage of titanium in the "coating" the description is legitimate. But one cannot call it a "Titanium Grinder" any more than one can call a Gold Plated watch a "Gold Watch".
(I believe that "plating" has specific meaning so it may not be appropriate to literally call the grinder "Titanium Plated", but my point really is that the object is NOT a titanium object.)
(I believe that "plating" has specific meaning so it may not be appropriate to literally call the grinder "Titanium Plated", but my point really is that the object is NOT a titanium object.)
Magic9
Plant Enthusiast
While I'm sure they are both great grinders, I can find a handful of complaints of chipping/flaking with the SCS too. I think it's all preference at this point, and I'll take the product with the longer track record.
(For the record, I think it's fucked up neither company provides enough info as they should)