Is hash a concentrate?

[tgvp]

well, it's true that to decide if it's a concentrate or not, we need to have a definition of it. If the only metric is an increase percentage of cannabinoids relative to total plant matter, even trimmed bud might be classified as concentrate

depends how the hash looks like and how much active ingredients it contains
some hash contains less than 25% thc and it's very weak concentrate
sellers like to set high prices for low grade hash sometimes

As I we have no legal market for weed products, I have no idea of the percentage of THC that can be found here. But even at a low percentage as 25÷, it's supposed to be higher than the plants used to produce it, so it has been concentrated. Well, unless it had been significantly tainted (maybe not the right word, I mean in the sense of adding something to increase weight, "coupé avec du pneu" as we used to say or "cut with tires" literally translated)

 

[GoldenBud]

It would be great to just dry the plant and vape it straight away, but I've personally found that a 4 month curing period is an absolute minimum for weed. I had a Strawberry Sour Diesel that for the first 4 months of curing smelled like chlorophyl (or like nothing at best). After 6/7 months it was pure strawberry heaven. And unfortunately, the same is with hash.

I understand. I never felt any difference between cured vs uncured hash, but I understand you've got more experience etc'.
Dried well without curing worked very well for me.

 

[Relaxed]

We think this way because now we have concentrates, but it's also important to keep in mind that hash was "invented" for storage purposes, not for having a stronger product.

That doesn't change my answer to the question, and why is it important to know the reason why it was first made? Are you telling me that the higher concentration had nothing to do with why it was used? Not sure I agree with your opinion.

 

[coolbreeze]

Yup, but my point is that you end up with two very different final products.

Assuming the hash has been fully cured (or chemically transformed through pressure, heat, time), is it a concentrate in you opinion? The reason I ask is other than grinder hash, it's always cured if properly made, I would think. I have rolled up balls of grinder or screened hash and have had decent results in terms of it being more powerful by weight or volume than the bud it came from. Even loose kief will do the same. Since it's concentrated by volume and weight (and thus power), how would we categorize it if not "concentrate"?

I think "concentrate" can have a conventional meaning (herb heavily processed chemically to concentrated effects), but I think all that really does in this case is eliminate hash from its ranks, it doesn't really offer anything explanatory other than the implication that hash is not 'processed enough' to qualify.

but it's also important to keep in mind that hash was "invented" for storage purposes, not for having a stronger product.

But the intent is unimportant in a way: we know hash, yes, because it could be transported more stealthily, but that's not why we bought it. We in the US at least have always seen and treated it as a concentrate, largely because it was so much more powerful than the weed we were getting in the 1970s, and there wasn't much else in terms of concentrates available to most of us until some time later, and probably mostly on the West Coast where US cultivation developed.

Not to fuss over this, it's just a fun problem to wrangle.

 

[Farid]

Curing transforms the product, - whether good or bad I guess is subjective, but it certainly smells, tastes, and smokes or vapes different over time. I've had bud that's cured for 5+ years, and it's gone from very sharp and "independent" flavors to more melded flavors, to eventually having a very distinct floral flavor which wasn't present during the first several months. At five years aged it still stinks up the room when you open a jar.

It's certainly a concentrate as it's actives are being concentrated in the hash making process. Unless you're just powdering bud and pressing that together without any filtration (which does happen in some black markets) it'll be concentrated.

 

[GoldenBud]

Curing transforms the product, - whether good or bad I guess is subjective, but it certainly smells, tastes, and smokes or vapes different over time. I've had bud that's cured for 5+ years, and it's gone from very sharp and "independent" flavors to more melded flavors, to eventually having a very distinct floral flavor which wasn't present during the first several months. At five years aged it still stinks up the room when you open a jar.

In this jar, the Oxygen that kept inside, making some reactions like THCA>THC>CBN, but idk about curing, curing is like the curing of cholorophyll i think?
i saw some research that every year 6% of the total THCA is going into CBN eventually, but can't find it now
so if you had 25% THCA in Feb 2022 now it's like 23.5% of THCA and some CBN created. next year 22.09% and so on

I understand that Oxygen oxidize the THCA to THC then CBN, but the process of Curing i never understood yet.

 

[Reekwind]

I would say it's not a concentrate, simply because of the amount of plant matter in it.
New World high grade bubble hash might be in the border area, but all traditional dry sift and hand-rub hash is undabable.


But also because of these (Old World) factors:

Hash is not used in the same way as concentrate, it's mainly mixed with tobacco and smoked, and concentrate is mainly dabbed or vaped.

Concentrate is mostly available in legal areas, whereas traditional hash is a per definition black market product since it's always illegal in the producing countries and almost always illegal in the importing countries.

Hash is not considered a concentrate anywhere in Europe, it's a class of it's own.
And hash is considered much more of an illicit drug where concentrate is considered more of a medicine, i.e, one is smuggled in from the Middle-East and sold by organized criminals and the other is produced locally by home growers and medical growers.


Hash is the common man's cannabis extract, concentrate is for connoisseurs

 

[RxPlorer]

It's the original concentrate, even in its dirtiest "charas" form. The resin is far more concentrated than trichomes consumed directly from flowers and leaves. On the podcast "Hashish Inn" the host likes to ask this question of pretty much every guest. The viewpoint of hash as a concentrate is pretty common in that circle. 'All hash is concentrate but not all concentrates are hash'

 

[coolbreeze]

I would say it's not a concentrate, simply because of the amount of plant matter in it.
New World high grade bubble hash might be in the border area, but all traditional dry sift and hand-rub hash is undabable.


But also because of these (Old World) factors:

Hash is not used in the same way as concentrate, it's mainly mixed with tobacco and smoked, and concentrate is mainly dabbed or vaped.

Concentrate is mostly available in legal areas, whereas traditional hash is a per definition black market product since it's always illegal in the producing countries and almost always illegal in the importing countries.

Hash is not considered a concentrate anywhere in Europe, it's a class of it's own.
And hash is considered much more of an illicit drug where concentrate is considered more of a medicine, i.e, one is smuggled in from the Middle-East and sold by organized criminals and the other is produced locally by home growers and medical growers.


Hash is the common man's cannabis extract, concentrate is for connoisseurs

I think this identifies the difference in historic perceptions and usages in the western world. As a kid of the 70s, it was the one and only concentrate available to us, more or less, in the US. Our perception of hash in Europe was sorta, "jeeze, they're hard-core with the hash only and no weed." We were aware that Europeans had hash because its climate was inhospitable to the herbs of the day; it was illegal everywhere; hash was as old to Europeans as the trade routes; and Europeans viewed weed as a raw material, unrefined. We also understood that people mostly mixed it with tobacco, which in fact sort of un-concentrated it for everyday use.

I don't disagree with you other cultural observations.

It's the original concentrate, even in its dirtiest "charas" form. The resin is far more concentrated than trichomes consumed directly from flowers and leaves. On the podcast "Hashish Inn" the host likes to ask this question of pretty much every guest. The viewpoint of hash as a concentrate is pretty common in that circle. 'All hash is concentrate but not all concentrates are hash'

I agree, and I'd note that some people who mainly use concentrates refer to them sorta generically as 'hash.'

 

[Reekwind]

We also understood that people mostly mixed it with tobacco, which in fact sort of un-concentrated it for everyday use.

Yes, it's quite silly actually, and to this day it's still by far the most common way of consuming cannabis in Europe, even for people who don't smoke tobacco otherwise.

Luckily some new ideas are blowing across the ocean every now and then

 

[GoldenBud]

Hash is not considered a concentrate anywhere in Europe, it's a class of it's own.

maybe the stiff hash is not a concentrate, the iceolator which had a tag price of like 50EUR for half an gram, in amsterdam, isn't a concentrate?

 

[Reekwind]

maybe the stiff hash is not a concentrate, the iceolator which had a tag price of like 50EUR for half an gram, in amsterdam, isn't a concentrate?

Ice-o-lator is one of those high grade bubble hashes on the border, but personally I would press it to rosin before considering loading it into a vaporizer.

I'm not just thinking of the lower grades of hash as non-concentrate, also the classic premium import hashes like Temple Balls and Creme, which aren't dabable either.

Usually bubble hash isn't labelled as hash in coffeeshops in The Netherlands or clubs in Spain (or black markets in Scandinavia, Germany and UK), but called Ice, Ice-o-lator, ex-tractor etc. named after the extraction method or extraction equipment brand name to differentiate it from the 10€ import hash
In Europe hash is considered as being something that is: always produced in the Middle-East and always extracted from outdoor grown cannabis.
Bubble hash in Europe is almost always made from indoor grown cannabis from Europe.

 

[Franco]

Assuming the hash has been fully cured (or chemically transformed through pressure, heat, time), is it a concentrate in you opinion?

No, it's still hash in my opinion.

But the intent is unimportant in a way: we know hash, yes, because it could be transported more stealthily, but that's not why we bought it. We in the US at least have always seen and treated it as a concentrate, largely because it was so much more powerful than the weed we were getting in the 1970s, and there wasn't much else in terms of concentrates available to most of us until some time later, and probably mostly on the West Coast where US cultivation developed.

I disagree. The intent is very important. The hash was originally made not for smuggling or for getting higher. It was just because it was possible to store it long term, while weed couldn't back in the day. Does this make it more potent than the weed itself? Yes, it could, but I woulnd't consider it a concentrate based on modern standards (yes, because of the plant matter).

but personally I would press it to rosin

This is key here. Why would people squish traditional/bubble hash in order to obtain rosin (= a concentrate)?
To make a concentrate out of a concentrate?
In my opinion, the simple reason is to have a cleaner product that can be consumed in different ways.
This process transforms the hash in another product. Simple as that. A different product that has different effects and has to be consumed differently.
In the end, since in Europe we're very used to hash and not very much to concentrates (and I understand it's the opposite in America) we have a different perception of this matter (no pun intended )

Anyway, thank you all for your input. It's great to know that there's a place on the Internet where you can have a civil discussion with people that have different perspectives. I love you. Much respect.

 

[Petetbay]

The answer to the question is yes.

 

[GoldenBud]

This is key here. Why would people squish traditional/bubble hash in order to obtain rosin (= a concentrate)?

Maybe because squishing it will get rid of the "excess" water there's in the iceolator?
like.... iceolator contains maybe 5%-10% of water, then the rosin will be stronger

I tried Live Rosin twice in my life. it's much better than an iceolator. but an iceolator sometimes is made from trim+mini buds, not top shelf
so...

but iceolator>bho because bho has no terpenes or just a little bit. i think terpenes are not soluble with butane?
I enjoyed iceolator more, but it was stickier....

 

[Cheebsy]

"concentrate" has a specific definition... I.e. a substance made by removing or reducing the diluting agent.

By that definition of anything is removed in the hash making process, it has to be a concentrate, assuming the removed portion is not replaced.

Btw, apart from mixing hash with tobacco and smoking it we used to vape/burn it between two hot knives too for an intense dab like hit.

 

[invertedisdead]

Maybe because squishing it will get rid of the "excess" water there's in the iceolator?
like.... iceolator contains maybe 5%-10% of water, then the rosin will be stronger

I tried Live Rosin twice in my life. it's much better than an iceolator. but an iceolator sometimes is made from trim+mini buds, not top shelf
so...

but iceolator>bho because bho has no terpenes or just a little bit. i think terpenes are not soluble with butane?
I enjoyed iceolator more, but it was stickier....

BHO usually has more terpenes than rosin. Well - it used to. I don't really see that insanely terpy BHO going around that much anymore, everyone I know switched to rosin.

IMO hash rosin and hashish are very closely related. Rosin is essentially "clarified" hash, just like making ghee from butter.

You remove some of the dry solids that would otherwise burn, which allows you to use it in different ways.
But clarified butter is still butter, and I think hash rosin is very much still hash.

That said, full melt bubble is where it's at

 

[Haze Mister]

When vaporized, even dry herb is concentrated.

It would be great to just dry the plant and vape it straight away, but I've personally found that a 4 month curing period is an absolute minimum for weed. I had a Strawberry Sour Diesel that for the first 4 months of curing smelled like chlorophyl (or like nothing at best).

This may have been due to the soil/fertilizers (nitrogen?) used and shouldn't really happen in my experience... or is strain-related. I have seen it before with a similar strawberry strain (Bruce Banner I think ) and it was from a grower who IMO was using poor quality fertilisers.​

​

How do you cure ?​

 

[Reekwind]

Why would people squish traditional/bubble hash in order to obtain rosin (= a concentrate)?
To make a concentrate out of a concentrate?

For me personally, it's simply because low temperature concentrate vaping requires a product consisting of mostly cannabinoids and terpenes, and only very little plant matter to give a nice vaping experience - and of course to not destroy the vaporizer.
I don't vape anything that hasn't been through µ37 or smaller

High grade import hash is usually µ100 (the coveted 00, zero zero), and bubble hash is usually somewhere in the range between µ120-µ70, both are of course not filtrated well enough, especially if the bubble hash has been washed aggressively (i.e. anything but a grandma with arthritis hand stirring with a feather) since increased agitation exponentially increases the plant matter in the bubble hash, just as aggresive and consecutive dry sifting will.

To get the heads out when washing, a relatively big micron size is needed to pass them through, which of course means that plant matter of the same micron size accompanies the heads into the final product.
Once heat is applied the heads liquefy and you can squish the contents of the heads through a much smaller micron sized filter bag, leaving behind excess plant material and plant lipids in the filter bag.

 

[florduh]

BHO usually has more terpenes than rosin. Well - it used to. I don't really see that insanely terpy BHO going around that much anymore, everyone I know switched to rosin.

IMO hash rosin and hashish are very closely related. Rosin is essentially "clarified" hash, just like making ghee from butter.

You remove some of the dry solids that would otherwise burn, which allows you to use it in different ways.
But clarified butter is still butter, and I think hash rosin is very much still hash.

That said, full melt bubble is where it's at

I still buy BHO, though I'm mostly a rosin boy. I've noticed the terp content in the top shelf stuff coming down a bit over the past few years. I think that's a good thing. Terp burn sucks.

I think I'm also starting to enjoy cured options more than the live stuff. Cured hash rosin and cured resin. Tastes a bit more herb like with more manageable terp levels. Usually cheaper than the live stuff too!

 

[GoldenBud]

still buy BHO

Didn't understand
The bho u buy has terpz or not?
The bho I had barely got terpz

edit:
ok gotcha
like, your BHO has less terpz than in the past
and it's like diversing from rosin which always got terpz?

i dunno if i like the high without terpz...

 

[florduh]

Didn't understand
The bho u buy has terpz or not?
The bho I had barely got terpz

The only BHO I buy is live or cured resin in a sauce form. Cured wasn't even available a few years ago, but you'd see live stuff with terp percentages over 10%, which just sucked on the throat. In my experience those numbers have come way down lately.

What kind of BHO are you getting? I remember back when shater was all the rage terps were pretty low. In the sauce I buy you can literally see the terps sweating off the little diamonds though.

 

[GoldenBud]

What kind of BHO are you getting? I remember back when shater was all the rage terps were pretty low. In the sauce I buy you can literally see the terps sweating off the little diamonds though.

Dunno then, maybe what I got is something not 100% made right? almost no taste at all.... 10% terpz content is what I like the most..... hard to get here.....but I can understand it's not good for the throat, even on high temps of dabbing....

 

[RxPlorer]

Maybe because squishing it will get rid of the "excess" water there's in the iceolator?
like.... iceolator contains maybe 5%-10% of water, then the rosin will be stronger

I tried Live Rosin twice in my life. it's much better than an iceolator. but an iceolator sometimes is made from trim+mini buds, not top shelf
so...

but iceolator>bho because bho has no terpenes or just a little bit. i think terpenes are not soluble with butane?
I enjoyed iceolator more, but it was stickier....

Generally what's being left in the rosin bag during the squish isn't water, but the incident plant particles, and the waxy membrane of the trichome. There is 6 star hash that will leave almost no residue on a banger, but in that case they are typically large trichome heads with a high cannabinoid/terpene to wax(lipid) ratio.

Yeah it's all better than Butane Hash Oil because BHO was always a shitty idea that never should have been a thing.

Edit: I don't mean to disparage anyone's personal taste. I just mean that BHO, as a process, was a bad idea - dangerous to the producer, potentially dangerous to the consumer, and necessarily lower quality because terpene profiles are destroyed in the solvent and have to be artificially reintroduced (which also increases risks) so the whole process was entirely unnecessary. If rosin had taken off first, maybe BHO would never have been a widespread thing, saving a lot of lives.

Solventless was superior before BHO and will be long after BHO is finally thankfully forgotten

 

[Farid]

It doesn't matter if it's pure heads or a rough kief full of plant matter: if the process increases the % of actives it is a concentrate by definition. Just look at juice from concentrate: it's still got water in it, it's just got a smaller proportion, making it more concentrated.