Is hash a concentrate?

[tgvp]

The title pretty much summarize it all. Independently of the method of production (kief, bubble, charas), hash is made by separating trichomes from their "vegetable support" alongside various contaminants (dust, hand grease and whatever you don't want to know ).
So could it be considered a concentrate?
I'm aware that is purely a semantic question, but when high, I love to wander on useless philosophical questions and this one bothered me for some time...
P.S. I do perfectly know that (except for full melt) in concentration and usage, it can't compare to bho, rosin and diamonds

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

I consider it a concentrate.

 

[Razhumikin]

Yup

 

[Franco]

In my opinion, it's not a concentrate.
Both traditional hash and bubble hash contain a lot of plant material. Of course bubble hash can be "full melt", but even in this case I would hardly consider it a concentrate. More so because, if you want to dab it, you need to cure it for a very long time before the resin can "eat" the plant material (and the associated moisture) that is still present inside the hash.
BHO, live resin, rosin, they all require some sort of "micro-filtration". To me, this is still the main difference, but I agree that we're talking about collecting resin anyway. So yes, maybe it's just semantics.

 

[invertedisdead]

When vaporized, even dry herb is concentrated.

 

[Grass Yes]

When vaporized, even dry herb is concentrated.

 

[GoldenBud]

depends how the hash looks like and how much active ingredients it contains
some hash contains less than 25% thc and it's very weak concentrate
sellers like to set high prices for low grade hash sometimes

 

[Franco]

When vaporized, even dry herb is concentrated.

I don't know maybe it's the language barrier and I'm lost in traslation, but I've always thought that when you vaporize dry herb you are extracting actinve ingredients not concentrating them.
But it's a very cool statement nonethelss I have to agree with that

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

some hash contains less than 25% thc and it's very weak concentrate

This is an interesting metric. Afaik the concentration of thc in Moroccan hash has been pretty consistent since a long time. Nowadays there's probably strains that have similar amounts of thc in flower form. Would that mean this hash was a concentrate before the thc content in flower rose, but no longer is because of of said relative rise in thc in flower?

 

[GoldenBud]

Afaik the concentration of thc in Moroccan hash has been pretty consistent since a long time.

if the hash is too stiff, it can't be because of the trichomes. in this business people want to make money and if they had to create very high quality hash, their yield would be like maybe 30gr, but if they add plant materials it will be 60gr, they will make more money. i doubt there's consistency in this field

a lot depends on how it looks and how it feels. stiff hash usually has less trichomes etc

for example, this hash here -

, it's not too stiff and not too sticky. iceolator usually better.

 

[Franco]

but if they add plant materials it will be 60gr

AFAIK plant material isn't added ex-post. Its quantity depends on the sieve that is used (in the case of Moroccan/Afghan/bubble hash) or on the charsi experience (for Indian/Nepali hash). Hence, the different grades.

ETA: curing also plays a big role here. I'm talking hash, not concentrate

 

[GoldenBud]

AFAIK plant material isn't added ex-post.

there are tricks to add plant material during the procedure. i am not sure i have the picture, but i knew exactly when some of the sellers i know tried to sell something mediocre, STIFF, because he needs the money, always, very badly. i dont blame him, got kids etc', but i knew i got higher price for the hash i received. never brought hash from him again.

 

[invertedisdead]

I don't know maybe it's the language barrier and I'm lost in traslation, but I've always thought that when you vaporize dry herb you are extracting actinve ingredients not concentrating them.
But it's a very cool statement nonethelss I have to agree with that

Well the resulting extract is a concentrate

The easiest way to tell that a concentration has occurred is by the pile of AVB left over. Rather than having to consume that plant mass in its entirety, we can extract and inhale a concentrated vapor; compared to if that plant material was combusted, which would create dilution. Consider that the majority of the cannabis flower is in fact unvaporizable plant material.

 

[GoldenBud]

(in the case of Moroccan/Afghan/bubble hash)

that's the problem with these terms . they can tell you it's an iceolator, but they did it in a way that yields 50gr instead of 25gr.
you need to find a real reliable seller, lol, very hard to find. found some of these, and some fakers too
i also know somebody which tell you how to "heat" the hash before using. man... i get your bullshit from kilometers... you want big yield, not quality

 

[coolbreeze]

Definitely a concentrate. If you've removed almost all the plant material to reduce down the active ingredients to a new refined substance with more actives by percentage than the original plant material, you've concentrated it. Not sure that absolute purity from plant materials (or a more elaborate processing) is the proper metric.

 

[Franco]

Well the resulting extract is a concentrate

The easiest way to tell that a concentration has occurred is by the pile of AVB left over. Rather than having to consume that plant mass in its entirety, we can extract and inhale a concentrated vapor; compared to if that plant material was combusted, which would create dilution. Consider that the majority of the cannabis flower is in fact unvaporizable plant material.

Thank you very much for your clarification. This is one of the reason why I love this place so much.

that's the problem with these terms . they can tell you it's an iceolator, but they did it in a way that yields 50gr instead of 25gr.
you need to find a real reliable seller, lol, very hard to find. found some of these, and some fakers too
i also know somebody which tell you how to "heat" the hash before using. man... i get your bullshit from kilometers... you want big yield, not quality

I understand where you're coming from. The quality can be debatable, especially with the black market here in Europe.
I personally make my hash myself (both dry sift and bubble hash/iceolator), that's why I was talking about best case scenarios in hash making.

Definitely a concentrate. If you've removed almost all the plant material to reduce down the active ingredients to a new refined substance with more actives by percentage than the original plant material, you've concentrated it. Not sure that absolute purity from plant materials (or a more elaborate processing) is the proper metric.

But the point is exactly the metric here, no? What is the percentage you have in mind when you say to remove "almost all the plant material"?
Traditional hash generally ranges between 12 and 30% of active ingredients. If you say this percentage qualifies it as a concentrate then fair enough, I personally think that this figure is too low, hence the difference.

FWIW, also the famous hash maker Frenchi Cannoli (RIP) used to make a distinction between hash and oil.
Here's a very enlightening video of him explaining parts of his technique:

 

[Relaxed]

Hash was the original concentrate.

 

[coolbreeze]

What is the percentage you have in mind when you say to remove "almost all the plant material"?
Traditional hash generally ranges between 12 and 30% of active ingredients. If you say this percentage qualifies it as a concentrate then fair enough, I personally think that this figure is too low, hence the difference.

I'm really less concerned with percentages of either plant material or the final thc content than with the simple fact that hash represents a concentration of actives compared to the originating plant. I'm not sure there is or need to be a "strength" determined as a limit--it would be completely arbitrary and would of course have to change as herb gets stronger.

 

[GoldenBud]

Here's a very enlightening video of him explaining parts of his technique:

i think Canoli heats it because he was a smoker, and he was thinking all the people are smokers (vaporizers market started kickin it around 2004 or so?)
and this method is like from 90s~ or even earlier?

for vaporization purposes, you don't need to heat, no need this bottle at all IMHO....

 

[Franco]

I'm really less concerned with percentages of either plant material or the final thc content than with the simple fact that hash represents a concentration of actives compared to the originating plant. I'm not sure there is or need to be a "strength" determined as a limit--it would be completely arbitrary and would of course have to change as herb gets stronger.

To be completely clear I think the main difference is in the technique, not in the percentage. For traditional hash, resin collection is a mechanical and not a chemical process.

i think Canoli heats it because he was a smoker, and he was thinking all the people are smokers (vaporizers market started kickin it around 2004 or so?)
and this method is like from 90s~ or even earlier?

for vaporization purposes, you don't need to heat, no need this bottle at all IMHO....

No, he used heat as part of his pressing technique and I think it's a very useful if not indispensable step in hash making.
At least, I saw an enormous difference in the final product when I started heat pressing my resin.

 

[GoldenBud]

No, he used heat as part of his pressing technique and I think it's a very useful if not indispensable step in hash making.
At least, I saw an enormous difference in the final product when I started heat pressing my resin.

wait.... maybe it's just because the terpene "Hashishian"? that comes when you slightly heat the hash? maybe is it the case?
what's so difference other than that?

 

[Franco]

wait.... maybe it's just because the terpene "Hashishian"? that comes when you slightly heat the hash? maybe is it the case?
what's so difference other than that?

After you have mechanically collected your resin, heat-pressing at a controlled temperature sparks a chemical process that goes on with curing.
The final product is WAY less intense if you skip this step.

 

[coolbreeze]

After you have mechanically collected your resin, heat-pressing at a controlled temperature sparks a chemical process that goes on with curing.
The final product is WAY less intense if you skip this step.

I think this fact supports both our views. The hash ingredients have been physically concentrated (my metric) and then chemically altered to increase potency (your metric).

 

[GoldenBud]

After you have mechanically collected your resin, heat-pressing at a controlled temperature sparks a chemical process that goes on with curing.
The final product is WAY less intense if you skip this step.

ok I see. but I never understood why it needs to be cured tho. never saw a science's evident that curing is important, to weed or to hash.

 

[Franco]

I think this fact supports both our views. The hash ingredients have been physically concentrated (my metric) and then chemically altered to increase potency (your metric).

Yup, but my point is that you end up with two very different final products.

Hash was the original concentrate.

We think this way because now we have concentrates, but it's also important to keep in mind that hash was "invented" for storage purposes, not for having a stronger product.

ok I see. but I never understood why it needs to be cured tho. never saw a science's evident that curing is important, to weed or to hash.

I'd love to give you a scientific explaination, but I can't as I'm no scientist.
I can only give you my (20 years) experience as a self-sufficient grower.
It would be great to just dry the plant and vape it straight away, but I've personally found that a 4 month curing period is an absolute minimum for weed. I had a Strawberry Sour Diesel that for the first 4 months of curing smelled like chlorophyl (or like nothing at best). After 6/7 months it was pure strawberry heaven. And unfortunately, the same is with hash.