Chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
I bought a Newport Jr. torch and it's a 4mm banger
Is dabbing worth it?
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I bought a Newport Jr. torch and it's a 4mm banger
What's the O.D. of the banger? 4mm sounds like the sidewalls and floor thickness.
The bowl should never turn red, there's no reason to heat the nail that hot.
Chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
Not sure what O.D. means, but yes 4mm is the wall thickness
nosmoking
Just so Dab HAppy!
That is absurdly thick for walls. Typically walls are 2-3mm on these higher quality bangers and the floors are 3 or 4mm thick. The thicker the floor the longer it takes to heat.
O.D. means outside diameter. Typically this is 16mm, 20mm, 25mm or 30mm but the sizes can vary so there is no rule or standard really. The larger the OD the longer it takes to heat.
I would not ever heat to red hot, but it does sound like you need to heat more/longer.
Chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
The OD is 20mm. I think the floor thickness is 3mm
CANtalk
Well-Known Member
This is a well known and common technique, one of the earliest and most common ways for high temp dabbing.
https://www.massroots.com/learn/how-to-dab/
You just have to keep messing with your heat up and cool down times until you find that balance of flavor and vapor production without burning oil onto the nail. Kind of an intuitive thing you just gotta tinker with, if you want to skip straight to the front of the line id suggest an enail.
I agree it's well known, also way outdated. we used to heat our nails red hot a decade ago, it's simply not necessary, especially for a low temp dab.
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Chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
I'm not ready to spend the money on a quality enail just yet.
Something like this should work, though, I think.
CANtalk
Well-Known Member
??? Yes, high temp dabbing is not low temp dabbing... so it's strange to bring in low temp dabbing when obviously talking about high heat dabbing. Necessity depends on if one wants to do a high temp dab or a low temp dab; they are each different methods to dab, and both have different experiences and effects... so high heat "is" a necessity to do a high temp dab. Outdated is a sweeping generalization as well. I've found many people here on the forum still do, want and prefer high temp dabbing. YMMV. High temp dabbing at 550F or more is very commonly reported and that's the strength of a nail or banger setup which many people recommend (it's good for high heat). Yes, low temp dabbing is a newer technique (and what I'm most interested in fwiw) but a lot of people on the forum still high temp dab and advocate for it often. A number of members and posts here on the forum often promote dedicated nails and bangers for concentrate use while dismissing options like VapeXhale EVO, which is really only makes sense if one wants to do high temp dabbing.
In the end, many people still do high temp dabs so it's a valid option to use the torch method to get a light red glow in a quartz banger as part of the preparation. Compare and contrast that to low temp dabbing and then see what one's personal preference is. Good luck.
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Some China Bangers will glow red because the quartz they use has impurities such as lead in it.
Used bangers will also glow because of the devitrification (hazy, black/grey stuff)
both cases youd see the glow before it reached the temp youre trying to get to
I think by outdated he might have been referring to the scientific study that came out last year that linked High Temp Dabbing to an increased likelyhood of getting cancer. Just because a lot of people still prefer something doesnt mean that it is not outdated.
Also i wouldnt consider a nail at 550F a high temp dab, High temp dabs are 700F+
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Did somebody mention wanting to do a hot dab? I don't understand where your rant is coming from. Who on the forum likes hot dabs? None of the OG's on here I talk to do...
The Evo nail is too small to function well. We've all had Evo's.
Agree that devitrification will cause glow but don't agree that you'd see the glow, my nails never get glowing hot. Ever. It's simply not necessary. I just went on a long torching streak before my max Vapor got here and still no glowing, even heating my ruby insert up which takes twice as long as heating just quartz.
Reading back a little I see this:
Calling @CANtalk's response a rant is a bit harsh and could prompt a testy response, which could escalate... you get the picture. Please remember that the first rule of FC is Be Nice. Thanks for your cooperation.
MegaMan2k
Well-Known Member
These high/low temp dabs seems to be where the line is drawn here on FC,
How hot should i imagine when you say hot? So that the dab instantly burns itself stuck to the glass and releases all vapor in 1-2 seconds? (I normally consider these failed dabs)
Or is it lower than that so the dab still has a chance to move around alittle? Or will it then be considered low temp?
How hot should i imagine when you say hot? So that the dab instantly burns itself stuck to the glass and releases all vapor in 1-2 seconds? (I normally consider these failed dabs)
Or is it lower than that so the dab still has a chance to move around alittle? Or will it then be considered low temp?
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Maybe I'm not reading the right threads, but I don't seem to remember many people advocating for high temp dabs. High temp dabs are harsh, taste bad, and possibly are worse for your health.
People also used to love to dab directly off of titanium, but people have found there are much better methods available.
To me, it's almost like someone coming in here and advocating for combustion bong rips. Yes, they get a different effect from the bong rip, but would any of us consider it better? I'd certainly hope not.
I'm definitely one of those people that says the EVO is great for flower, but just acceptable for concentrates.
However, I completely disagree that a dedicated banger/coil is only needed for high temp dabs. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Low temp dabs is where the dedicated banger truly excels. It also does high temp dabs better than the EVO, but that's because it's better at all temp than the EVO.
I believe the difference is due to the carb cap and the possibility to add terp pearls/inserts.
Heating the banger to a red hot glow is absolutely not necessary. You are going way above the required to temp needed to torch clean the banger, let alone heat it for a dab.
If you are truly interested in low temp dabs, or just better dabs in general, you should absolutely look into a dedicated banger. The EVO can vape concentrates, but it will never reach the potential you can with a banger.
Different tools for different jobs.
Edit:
Personally, I consider it a high temp dab if you get good vapor production without putting on the carb cap. When I dab, I can hit it without the carb cap and I just get very very whispy, almost not visible, but tasty terpy hits. But once I drop that cap on, it milks up nicely.
But yes, if the dab burns and sticks to the glass within reasonable amount of time, it was way too hot.
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It really depends on how worn/chazzed your banger is. Devit changes the properties of the quartz Requiring you to torch the nail longer to reach the same temp you used to with the same technique
It's largely the high temp torching that promotes devitrification.
Here's a post from Task Rok of Highly Educated on the subject:
1. Don't torch the quartz so much. My experience has been that the temperature at which a low temp dab is taken can range anywhere from 204°C-316°C (400°F-600°F). This temperature window is far below the 1,000°C (1,832°F) at which devitrification occurs. If your method of usage involves taking your material to a glowing red, perhaps it may be time to reinvent your method.
https://highlyeducatedti.com/blogs/information/69786883-first-post
CANtalk
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but that's quite an indirect inference, "outdated" is much more directly defined as "no longer relevant or current"... and high temp dabbing is still relevant, current & being done.
Most of the resources (including common ones) I've found describe low temp dabbing as being below 400F (because of health studies) or 450F (or even 500F). And temps above that are typically described as high temp dabbing. OTOH, I've seen 700F+ called extreme temp dabbing for example. You rarely if ever see any temp range called medium temp dabbing (a google search brings up zero results of that phrase on the FC forum, whether using the words temp or temperature), & probably because such a classification doesn't make much sense. The 400F or 450F cutoff often being mentioned is at least based on health studies and makes a for a natural point of division. Maybe some old-timers still consider high temp dabbing to be above 700F but if anything is outdated, it would be that number with the advent of low temp dabbing & some health studies out now. The subject and literature around high/low temp dabbing is a bit of a mess for sure as the temperature differences are not consistently defined. Still, I generally find 400F, 450F, or 500F being described most often as the cut-off point between low temp & high temp dabbing.
Really? Because what has been quoted that started all this was Chickenhawk asking about dabbing with a setup around a heating quartz banger lightly red, which just happens to be the way often shown and described to do a high temp dab. This is basic stuff. It's even on Youtube. And certainly, neither did Chickenhawk mention wanting to do a low temp dab.
Rant?? It's simply a discussion expanding on more than simplifications & generalizations. I'd think a discussion is a good thing to have & what the forum is precisely for. Sorry if you don't like that. Using hyperbole, especially to attack others, is not helpful.
I see lots of people posting about high temp dabs well above 500F on the forum here & simply pointed that out; it's bizarre to use the "OG's" you "talk to" as an arbiter of anything... or the only source of good info. The dismissiveness here is unhelpful.
You're the first person I've seen mention that the EVO nail is too small... FC has a great search function with years of history and nothing comes up on this EVO criticism. Please explain the physics/logic of how the nail size is a big problem in EVO concentrate use in the EVO thread.
That's an anecdotal &/or hasty generalization fallacy. Just because it isn't the case in your experience doesn't mean others won't experience it.
Well, there's the OP (Chickenhawk) that was quoted at the beginning of this discussion in the thread asking about torching a banger to light red hot to dab... which is a well-known method to do high temp dabbing. Ergo the high temp dabbing option and information. Maybe I'm not reading the right threads, but I don't seem to remember anyone advocating for only low temp dabbing here.
That's just an opinion couched as fact. Some people don't think the same way as you, & their opinion is just as valid as yours. Plus, such statements are open to lots of variability in interpretation because the discussion hasn't even yet defined what the actual temps are in the high temp dabs mentioned.
That's just another opinion couched as fact. Some people don't think the same way as you, & their opinion is just as valid as yours. People are still using non-glass paths in all types of rigs with materials such as titanium, SS, SiC, tubing, etc.
That's unhelpful red herring hyperbole & inflammatory. The dismissiveness here is unhelpful.
That's a made up statement & interpretation not based on what was posted. Non-sequitur fallacy.
I'm sure low temp banger dabs are great but it wasn't the topic being discussed. The EVO doesn't do high temp dabs that many people on FC discuss (>500F). And I disagree that the EVO is worse at concentrates; going by the overall the weight of evidence, by far the majority of people who post on the forum here & elsewhere find the EVO does a great job with concentrates. But I do know your opinion on that, you've mentioned it many times now redundantly.
Of course heating a banger red hot is not necessary to dab, but as mentioned heating to lightly red is often employed by many people who enjoy and do high temp dabbing; this method helps them find their optimal temps (with the link and described method including a cooling off-period as well to get to optimal temps).
I've seen many people disagree with this opinion couched as fact. Again, the overall weight of evidence shows much more love out there for the EVO with concentrates than your experience. But to each their own. I definitely will and expect to try a banger setup when I get the opportunity, and I look forward to seeing how my experience is. It may agree with the overall weight of evidence, or not. However, whatever I find will not be dismissive of others experiences nor the overall weight of evidence.
That's not how people describe high temp dabbing in my reading, rather it's simply a specific temperature cut-off. And I generally see carb caps used for both low temp & high temp dabbing in banger/nail rigs.
That certainly seems to be the case and I had no idea. It's been eye-opening to step in it (so to speak)... I was just pointing out how common heating quartz to light red is when doing high temp dabbing, it's still a current method & often seen even on Youtube.
It's nice to see that question since it's an important point to the discussion
, even if it's not directed at me.In my current reading and research, most educational information & people tend to now discriminate between low temp & high temp dabbing by a temperature cut-off, with low temp dabbing maxing out at either 400F, 450F, or 500F depending where they personally draw the line. I hypothesize that the cut-off used to be at 450F or 500F because historically more specialized rigs were needed to get to those higher temperature levels (& many here say that typical evapes don't get hot enough to do concentrates well). More recently, with some scientific info showing healthier vapor at 400F, people have begun to use 400F as the low temp cut off. YMMV.
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Thats a large factor but not the only issue. Another big one is contaminants... If there are even microscopic traces of oil that u dont clean up after successive even low temp heats your nail will eventually start the devit process and once it starts it will usually get worse and worse. The devit causes you to have to heat for longer to achieve similar results and thus you start getting really chazzed glowing bangers
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Maybe, but that's quite an indirect inference, "outdated" is much more directly defined as "no longer relevant or current"... and high temp dabbing is still relevant, current & being done.
Most of the resources (including common ones) I've found describe low temp dabbing as being below 400F (because of health studies) or 450F (or even 500F). And temps above that are typically described as high temp dabbing. OTOH, I've seen 700F+ called extreme temp dabbing for example. You rarely if ever see any temp range called medium temp dabbing (a google search brings up zero results of that phrase on the FC forum, whether using the words temp or temperature), & probably because such a classification doesn't make much sense. The 400F or 450F cutoff often being mentioned is at least based on health studies and makes a for a natural point of division. Maybe some old-timers still consider high temp dabbing to be above 700F but if anything is outdated, it would be that number with the advent of low temp dabbing & some health studies out now. The subject and literature around high/low temp dabbing is a bit of a mess for sure as the temperature differences are not consistently defined. Still, I generally find 400F, 450F, or 500F being described most often as the cut-off point between low temp & high temp dabbing.
Really? Because what has been quoted that started all this was Chickenhawk asking about dabbing with a setup around a heating quartz banger lightly red, which just happens to be the way often shown and described to do a high temp dab. This is basic stuff. It's even on Youtube. And certainly, neither did Chickenhawk mention wanting to do a low temp dab.
Rant?? It's simply a discussion expanding on more than simplifications & generalizations. I'd think a discussion is a good thing to have & what the forum is precisely for. Sorry if you don't like that. Using hyperbole, especially to attack others, is not helpful.
I see lots of people posting about high temp dabs well above 500F on the forum here & simply pointed that out; it's bizarre to use the "OG's" you "talk to" as an arbiter of anything... or the only source of good info. The dismissiveness here is unhelpful.
You're the first person I've seen mention that the EVO nail is too small... FC has a great search function with years of history and nothing comes up on this EVO criticism. Please explain the physics/logic of how the nail size is a big problem in EVO concentrate use in the EVO thread.
That's an anecdotal &/or hasty generalization fallacy. Just because it isn't the case in your experience doesn't mean others won't experience it.
Well, there's the OP (Chickenhawk) that was quoted at the beginning of this discussion in the thread asking about torching a banger to light red hot to dab... which is a well-known method to do high temp dabbing. Ergo the high temp dabbing option and information. Maybe I'm not reading the right threads, but I don't seem to remember anyone advocating for only low temp dabbing here.
That's just an opinion couched as fact. Some people don't think the same way as you, & their opinion is just as valid as yours. Plus, such statements are open to lots of variability in interpretation because the discussion hasn't even yet defined what the actual temps are in the high temp dabs mentioned.
That's just another opinion couched as fact. Some people don't think the same way as you, & their opinion is just as valid as yours. People are still using non-glass paths in all types of rigs with materials such as titanium, SS, SiC, tubing, etc.
That's unhelpful red herring hyperbole & inflammatory. The dismissiveness here is unhelpful.
That's a made up statement & interpretation not based on what was posted. Non-sequitur fallacy.
I'm sure low temp banger dabs are great but it wasn't the topic being discussed. The EVO doesn't do high temp dabs that many people on FC discuss (>500F). And I disagree that the EVO is worse at concentrates; going by the overall the weight of evidence, by far the majority of people who post on the forum here & elsewhere find the EVO does a great job with concentrates. But I do know your opinion on that, you've mentioned it many times now redundantly.
Of course heating a banger red hot is not necessary to dab, but as mentioned heating to lightly red is often employed by many people who enjoy and do high temp dabbing; this method helps them find their optimal temps (with the link and described method including a cooling off-period as well to get to optimal temps).
I've seen many people disagree with this opinion couched as fact. Again, the overall weight of evidence shows much more love out there for the EVO with concentrates than your experience. But to each their own. I definitely will and expect to try a banger setup when I get the opportunity, and I look forward to seeing how my experience is. It may agree with the overall weight of evidence, or not. However, whatever I find will not be dismissive of others experiences nor the overall weight of evidence.
That's not how people describe high temp dabbing in my reading, rather it's simply a specific temperature cut-off. And I generally see carb caps used for both low temp & high temp dabbing in banger/nail rigs.
That certainly seems to be the case and I had no idea. It's been eye-opening to step in it (so to speak)... I was just pointing out how common heating quartz to light red is when doing high temp dabbing, it's still a current method & often seen even on Youtube.
It's nice to see that question since it's an important point to the discussion
In my current reading and research, most educational information & people tend to now discriminate between low temp & high temp dabbing by a temperature cut-off, with low temp dabbing maxing out at either 400F, 450F, or 500F depending where they personally draw the line. I hypothesize that the cut-off used to be at 450F or 500F because historically more specialized rigs were needed to get to those higher temperature levels (& many here say that typical evapes don't get hot enough to do concentrates well). More recently, with some scientific info showing healthier vapor at 400F, people have begun to use 400F as the low temp cut off. YMMV.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't have the time right now to respond to all the issues in your post.
Hope you get to try a tasty and terpy low temp dab from a proper rig someday, you'll see what we're talking about!
newVaper420
Vapor Enthusiast
Ok back to the initial question "Is dabbing worth it?".... I sure as hell hope so.
Every time I've done it, I've loved it. Sometimes flower doesn't deliver the punch I need to remedy this pain in my abdomen. I am about to pick up some live rosin and live sugar on Friday. Real high quality shit. Anyway, I'm one of those people who is a big big big fan of the Evo. That's my daily driver. I've had it since I started vaping in 2012 (well the original Cloud anyway).
That being said, the Evo for me has never been great with concentrates. It just tastes very burny all the time. I'm not sure. I've watched tons of videos. Doing the same shit as Seibo, but it just doesn't feel right. Of course I get high as hell on it, but it's a tough hit.
That being said, I did pick up a Puffco Peak. I know that device is also very divisive but I couldn't get a rig / torch setup at this current point. I tried some garbage stuff in the peak, and let me tell you, flavor was unmatched. The Evo never tasted that good with any concentrate, and I had some awesome gluechee hash pressed rosin.
So, I'm hoping to make the switch to concentrates in order to help my lungs out further, and to get a more direct medication method. We will see what happens.
Every time I've done it, I've loved it. Sometimes flower doesn't deliver the punch I need to remedy this pain in my abdomen. I am about to pick up some live rosin and live sugar on Friday. Real high quality shit. Anyway, I'm one of those people who is a big big big fan of the Evo. That's my daily driver. I've had it since I started vaping in 2012 (well the original Cloud anyway).
That being said, the Evo for me has never been great with concentrates. It just tastes very burny all the time. I'm not sure. I've watched tons of videos. Doing the same shit as Seibo, but it just doesn't feel right. Of course I get high as hell on it, but it's a tough hit.
That being said, I did pick up a Puffco Peak. I know that device is also very divisive but I couldn't get a rig / torch setup at this current point. I tried some garbage stuff in the peak, and let me tell you, flavor was unmatched. The Evo never tasted that good with any concentrate, and I had some awesome gluechee hash pressed rosin.
So, I'm hoping to make the switch to concentrates in order to help my lungs out further, and to get a more direct medication method. We will see what happens.