Is Copper Suitable for Vaporizers?

[biopharmacopeia]

Is there any reason not to use high-purity copper in vaporizers? Does use of copper adversely affects the taste or odor of vaporized herbal material?

I am considering making for myself a desk-top, 120 volt (hot box-type) vaporizer using a high-end passive (no fan) computer CPU heat sink/cooler as my vaporizer heat exchanger (a ceramic heater pumping heat into this heat sink mounted in castable ceramic insulation). For some cheaper examples, see
http://www.dynatron-corp.com/products/cpucooler/cpucooler_model.asp?id=139 and http://www.dynatron-corp.com/products/cpucooler/cpucooler_model.asp?id=123. With their many heat exchanging fins (usually min. of about 50) attached to a solid copper base (to which the heating element is attached), these heat sinks/coolers should be very efficient for heating air. These products, particularly high-performance models, are by neccessity made of the highest purity (no or insignificant lead or any other metal), oxygen-free copper, since the presence of anything but copper (including use of alloys) detracts from copper?s very high heat conduction (much the same as impurities detract from its electrical conduction). Many people are familiar with use of such high-purity, oxygen-free copper in high-end stereo/video cables, speaker wire, etc.

So,
1) Is copper used in any marketed vaporizers?
2) Does anyone otherwise have any experience with copper in vaporizers (parts that get hot)?
3) Most important -- Will/does use of copper in a vaporizer heater affect the taste of inhaled vapors? Is use of copper detectable by users?
4) Does anyone have experience using a copper bowl for smoking herbal material? Is the taste affected?
5) Will copper oxidize/corrode at vaporizer heater temperatures, and does this affect the taste/odor of heated air?

I've done enough preliminary research (I used to work as a chemical/toxicology information specialist) to conclude that air inhaled after passing over high purity copper heated to 500-600?F (or hotter) is not a safety hazard. In fact, copper is used in expensive cookware, which gets way hotter than the 500-600?F that might be needed for a vaporizer heater. And copper is the main component of brass, which is widely used for pipes (smoking, not plumbing), with combustion heating the metal way hotter than needed in a vaporizer heater. Yes, copper fumes are toxic, but temp. over 1000?F or inhalation of powders are required.

Thank you.

 

[beatsme]

Would a tinny taste bother you?

On a more serious note, take a look at this anecdote from the grasscity forums.

 

[Clear_Dome]

interesting question but first ! welcome here hope you enjoy ,I never saw copper in any vap but I didnt see them all . I remeber using old copper pipe as my first pipe when I was young and the taste was'nt so good LOL but I here you talk about brass , correct me if i'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the bowl of the vapman is made of brass , so maybe it can help you !

 

[VaporNinja]

interesting question but first ! welcome here hope you enjoy ,I never saw copper in any vap but I didnt see them all . I remeber using old copper pipe as my first pipe when I was young and the taste was'nt so good LOL but I here you talk about brass , correct me if i'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the bowl of the vapman is made of brass , so maybe it can help you !

The vapman bowl is actually made of copper, I was close to getting one, but changed my mind. http://www.vapormovement.com/?p=42

I understand that in order for copper to create toxic fume, high temp is required, but in fact the copper bowl is directly heated with jet flame (very high temp that can melt a penny).

I would think twice before inhaling off something that has potential health hazards, we vaporize because we care about our health after all.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c5170.htm

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

the copper isnt relly a concern, its gold plated and you arent heating it for more than 5 secons at a time, have you tried melting a penny with a torch? it takes longer than 5 seconds, and pennies arent made of copper anyway, theyre made of zinc which has lower melting temperature

copper was most likely used because it is very conductive for temperature, and the gold plating is for inertness

the "all metal in vapes is bad" mentality isnt really supported here, as metal doesnt become toxic or release ions usually until it hits much higher temps than we are talking about with vaporization, so instea of making a vague post on the angers of copper, try providing some specific info about how toxic it is at 360-400F

 

[4:20]

Absolutely right. To measure the toxicity of a metal, you have to take in account the maximum temperature reached by that specific metal in your vaporizer.
A solid turn to liquid at a certain temperature, then releases gases and fumes. I agree that for safety reason a metal should only be called `safe` when used in a vaporizer if it remains far under its melting point. We vaporize be cause we care about our health, right? In vaporizers, I would recommend that the maximum temperature reached by a specific metal used in a vaporizer should be at least! 100c under it s melting point (or 200F ).
You can cross check my infos for safety, but this is what I know:
aluminium melts at 660c or 1220 F
pure copper melts at 1084c or 1983 F
TIN melts at 220c or 428 F
Zinc melts at 419.5 C or 787 F
LEAD melts at 300 C or 572 F

Note that :
1/ an alloy of 2 or more metals has a different melting temperature than stated above.
2/the powder of the metals listed above is TOXIC at any temperature and there are many others than the ones I have mentioned !
If the producer doesn t clean up thoroughly the whole thing to COMPLETELY remove traces of metal dust, then yes, the use of theses metals is a toxic hazard for the user.

So far, I don t see how pure SOLID copper reaching a maximum of let s say 500 F ( for herbal vaporizing purpose that is way too much anyway) could affect the health of the vaporist.
PURE metals shouldn t release any fumes under theses temperature listed above, feel free to correct me if I m wrong.

 

[biopharmacopeia]

Absolutely right. To measure the toxicity of a metal, you have to take in account the maximum temperature reached by that specific metal in your vaporizer.
A solid turn to liquid at a certain temperature, then releases gases and fumes. I agree that for safety reason a metal should only be called `safe` when used in a vaporizer if it remains far under its melting point. We vaporize be cause we care about our health, right? In vaporizers, I would recommend that the maximum temperature reached by a specific metal used in a vaporizer should be at least! 100c under it s melting point (or 200F ).
You can cross check my infos for safety, but this is what I know:
aluminium melts at 660c or 1220 F
pure copper melts at 1084c or 1983 F
TIN melts at 220c or 428 F
Zinc melts at 419.5 C or 787 F
LEAD melts at 300 C or 572 F

Note that :
1/ an alloy of 2 or more metals has a different melting temperature than stated above.
2/the powder of the metals listed above is TOXIC at any temperature and there are many others than the ones I have mentioned !
If the producer doesn t clean up thoroughly the whole thing to COMPLETELY remove traces of metal dust, then yes, the use of theses metals is a toxic hazard for the user.

So far, I don t see how pure SOLID copper reaching a maximum of let s say 500 F ( for herbal vaporizing purpose that is way too much anyway) could affect the health of the vaporist.
PURE metals shouldn t release any fumes under theses temperature listed above, feel free to correct me if I m wrong.

High purity copper, and also high purity aluminum, are excellent candidates for convection vaporizer heaters, particularly copper (e.g., used in the Vapman butane-heated vaporizer and, I recall, the aromatherapy attachment for the PD). Copper is inherently non-toxic (people have been drinking water from copper pipes and containers for centuries), antimicrobial (being similar to silver) and is an essential mineral. Even at 600-800?F or 1000?F, there would be no vaporization of metal. Revere Ware and other high-end cooking pans with copper bottoms or made of all copper don't sublime or vaporize (put copper into the air) when blasted repeatedly with very hot gas flames or sitting on red-hot electric range coils. I have Revere Ware pans from my parents that have lasted 50 or more years (and all the copper is still there). I saw repeated references to pure copper being a hard, dense metal, not even softening until over 1600?F, melting at about 2000?F, and not boiling/vaporizing until about 2400-2500?F.

Otherwise, in coming months, new "Eco" brand and other "lead-free brass" (e.g., copper silicon alloys) will become more available, and this might be a candidate for vaporizer heater use.

Copper has near the best heat transfer properties of all materials, but a lower specific heat, i.e., it's great at rapidly delivering and transferring heat (what is probably needed most in an air-heating vaporizer), but not as good as many other metals at storing a lot of heat for constant or later delivery. Aluminum is not as good at heat transfer, but is much better at storing heat (higher specific heat). Both copper and aluminum and combinations are used in computer cpu and parts heat sinks and other applications requiring the most efficient cooling of critical electronic and other parts (with cooling here actually meaning transferring heat to adjacent air). In general, stainless steel and other alloys (not pure metals) are not as good at heat transfer and/or storage; and glass is way down in performance (meaning one has to use more mass and/or more hot surface area to achieve the same heat transfer).