is anybody worried that they have smoked concentrates?
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seaofgreens
My Mind Is Free
The resin blob exists already within your greens, it is just concentrated together with plant material removed. Just makes it a bit easier to overindulge.
Health risks include but are not limited to: bouts of euphoria, intense hunger, and a strong desire to relax.
Health risks include but are not limited to: bouts of euphoria, intense hunger, and a strong desire to relax.
No chemicals necessary - heat + pressure = concentrate
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Man I've noticed that you seem very, very anxious about concentrates in many of your posts. I am also glad to say as one of the more experienced extract processors here that your concerns are for the most part, not warranted. A lot of your concerns that I have noticed are completely resolved when the extracts you are concerned about are better explained and understood.
Cannabis resin is a blob. Yes, you should do your due diligence in establishing provenance of your extracts wherever possible. You should not buy black market/untested extracts if there is any other option, and even if there is no other option, if you are not sure about the safety or quality, just avoid it.
However, a lot of people get concerned about shit with concentrates that just doesn't make sense.
Remember, when a concentrate is made properly, all it is is the part of the cannabis flower that has the desirable cannabinoids and terpenes for inhalation, which has been separated from the inactive plant material. This is safer to heat and inhale than the same quantity of resin would be to boil off of the original flower in a vape.
When people vape flowers, they're inevitably going to create vapor from the inactive plant material and breathe that in alongside their cannabis actives. The difference with a well made concentrate is that you're only heating the stuff that you want to inhale, not all of the accompanying plant material as well! I find concentrates to be much gentler for inhalation and respiratory purposes as the same amount of resin would be when vaped off of the original flower. Also the concentrates are much tastier than the original flower when done right.
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MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
While i can totally understand this, I've actually had a different experience.
For some reason i can vape flowers all day long and have manageable mucus, but i find even after only 1 dab of oil my mucus is heavily triggered. So much to the point where i dont like concentrates. And its not because they are too strong. Flowers actually are not strong enough.
Do you have any guess at why this is? Or should i just blame me and my body?
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I have not personally had this experience. It may or may not be something unique to your own physiology. I don't find that I have noticeable mucus buildup except fleetingly if I really overdo the dosing. It could also be related to the extract/s you have, or the way you consumed it, or even something as trivial as how a vape or rig had been cleaned (or not cleaned!). There are many ways that all kinds of cannabis vapor can cause respiratory symptoms.
I also get a dry hacking cough from flower vaping which I've never had from dabbing the way I do now in any quantity. This is for me why I so strongly prefer concentrates. I also only dab on SiC/sapphire enails through water generally, so the temps are very low on my nails (my actual nail surface temps are lower than a lot of flower vapes nominally use) and the flavor and harshness of the hit is as tame as possible.
Convection flower vapes especially give me the dry cough, with or without a water rig. Conduction flower vapes give a little less. I rarely vape flower anymore because of this and my preference/ability to opt for full melt, however own a number of flower vapes and have used/personally owned almost everything there is for flowers. I can understand how people doing torch dabs on quartz for example might get too many hits that are a little too hot which might cause similar dry coughing to what I describe from flower vapes.
Anything with enough residual solvent is likely to irritate the upper respiratory tract too, so this may or may not be a possible explanation for people who've had different experiences. As we can see, there are many ways that YMMV.
I have the same issues. I notice the same, like the concentrates push out my mucus. I start spitting out mucus...
this is good because mucus in the body is unhealthy and can cause cancer.
its said that hot and spicy foods help with mucus too..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...emo-drugs-allowing-grow-multiply-quickly.html
Is MUCUS to blame for cancer spreading? It 'shields the disease from chemo drugs, allowing it to grow and multiply quickly
Mucus protects cancer cells from drugs designed to kill them, study found
That allows cancer cells to thrive, grow and multiply quickly, scientists say
The study identified a gene, GCNT3, that plays a role in mucus production
GCNT3 causes a component of mucus to be overexpressed in cancer
Enail's are needed, especially for the new or uninitiated. You can use a torch and banger, and you'll learn sooner or later what you need to do to accomplish the right temp dab. It generally involves a stopwatch, diligent monitoring, and consistency. If that amount of effort is not for you, then an enail is. Set the enail to 500F and try a small (BB sized) dab, vaporize it, then wait and see the effects.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
i really feel this is an example of just how humans are totally different.
Because I'm inhaling rosin (zero solvents) and my returns are in-between 20%-25% so the material can be considered quality. No type of any mold or pesticides that i can see on the flowers either.
And then, no torch is being used. Ive got the DNAIL SiC Dish at 650 degrees F. (i know i could go lower, but i hate vapor trails, and do not feel that 50 degrees cooler would improve my mucus issues any)
Also my rig/equipment is properly clean.
But like i said, i can seriously vape flowers all day (5+ grams) and my mucus is manageable. But .1 of rosin and I'm gagging up mucus. I have gag reflex, but i only have issues with it when inhaling concentrates. Never with flowers (and I'm a daily user)
i understand where your coming from with convection. All that hot air can definitely trigger coughing. But i still don't have any triggering compared to concentrates.
If i ever find something to help i will most definitely let everyone know. But i unfortunately have a feeling that my body's reaction is to blame.
When you say it "pushes it out" do you ever feel like your about to throw up (gag reflux) or does yours come out without issues?
The higher terpene profile is acting as a solvent and cleaning out mucus accumulation on your lungs.
Have you ever switched to exclusively concentrates to see if it will go away? Also keep in mind a .1 dab is like inhaling half a gram of flowers in one breath so it definitely has the volume to give you a lung cleaning.
Have you ever switched to exclusively concentrates to see if it will go away? Also keep in mind a .1 dab is like inhaling half a gram of flowers in one breath so it definitely has the volume to give you a lung cleaning.
If 650F is as low as you're willing to go then I suppose I have nothing else to add. You're not vaping your flowers at 650F so the comparison is difficult for me to make in my head. Best of luck and I hope you find out a way to consume all these lovely methods of meds without the negative effects.
howie105
Well-Known Member
Nope not worried, MJ in all its forms hasn't done me any harm over the last forty some odd years, as far as I can tell. That dosen't mean I wont keel over after the next hit,,,,,Nope, not that one either.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Why do you think my "high temp" is causing the issues?
I just dont see it being a factor since i can take 50+ hits of flowers at 440F and be fine, but take 1 hit of oil at 650F and my symptoms are triggered.
if i inhale with no oil (just hot enail air) it does not tigger any issues.
The issue is the oil (or well probably me) but I'm pretty sure its not my temperature.
Just think about how sticky rosin is. I can only imagine how thick of a mucus it creates compared to flowers. This is what i really think the issue is.
And then i agree that terps/thc are expectorants, because i have experienced this with flowers. But oil does not "clean out my system" it actually adds more mucus to me.
This is all from my experience. Someone else may have the exact opposite. But just know these results I'm getting are not false. Its just another mind blowing factor about the human body.
THC vaporizes at a much lower temperature than 650F. It's in the 350F range, and the higher you go the more oxidation occurs with the material and if you go high enough you're looking at changes in the molecules known as polymerization. Now, personally I take dabs just fine off my SiC halo at 710F on my cheap chinese enail. But I am also not having the issues that you have at lower temps.
The fact that you are having issues, and are running your nail at 650F (while i admit this is a perfectly fine temp to dab at), the suggestion was to lower your temps closer to what you are vaping your flowers at. At that point I think we can have a discussion, but presently, we're not making a fair comparison.
The fact that you are having issues, and are running your nail at 650F (while i admit this is a perfectly fine temp to dab at), the suggestion was to lower your temps closer to what you are vaping your flowers at. At that point I think we can have a discussion, but presently, we're not making a fair comparison.
Well great flower is sticky too. What do you think makes it so sticky? That would be the cannabis resin, which is the same exact resin you are inhaling whether you hit flower or rosin squished from that flower. It's the same thing, so if flower is not giving you issues, the first place to look would be temperature.
Also remember you are not inhaling a sticky rosin dab directly into your lungs, just the active ingredients extracted during vaporization.
Squiby
Well-Known Member
I think that the sheer volume you are vaping may be a consideration. The human body has its limits to what it can tolerate and you may have found yours.
I microdose every few hours throughout the day, every day. My average flower dose is about 0.015 grams with a daily total of around 0.090 grams per day. I vape the smallest amount possible of concentrates and they are reserved for daytime sativas mostly. Your daily dose of 5 grams of flower represent almost 2 months of herb for me.
I work at keeping my doses as small as possible while staying where I want to be. A slow steady decrease will still provide the same high. It's sort of magic.
I suggest that you try to lower your tolerance by incrementally vaping slightly less herb and /or concentrate each session, or by taking a tolerance break then starting up with a tiny amount. You will save lots of money on your stash and while enjoying the same highs and I'm betting your body will thank you by producing far less mucus.
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mc
Well-Known Member
Have you tried a wax pen like the Divine Tribe v3 or SAI with ceramic donut coil? It's possible that the "nail" dabbing is too strong, I find it is as well, but with a good pen, the game has changed.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
i was somewhat saying this. See, there is not enough stickiness (resin) on flowers to cause my mucus or get me medicated. I get pain relief from flower, but i havnt been able to get high off flowers in a few years.
And this is not because i have bad quality flowers. My body has just became accustomed to higher THC level intake.
So back to the "sticky stuff"
With concentrates, there is definitely enough sticky stuff (resin) to get me medicated, so therefore, i feel like there is enough sticky stuff (resin) to create this mucus issue that I'm experiencing.
Does that make sense?
And then i know i overdue it on consumption amounts. But I have severe medical issues and micro dosing does not help my health issues. I can take a .2 flower hit and only be medicated for a few minutes at most.
The effect just does not last. This is the reasoning for so many grams.
Being a medical user, tolerance breaks are very difficult. i don't eat at all and hardly sleep because of constant pain, and ill also have some other issues too. But anyways, I've found if i use flowers during my mornings and afternoons and then go to concentrates during the evening/night i can manage my tolerance and medical issues to a certain extent.
i will try to cut down a gram or 2 and see how that effects me. But there's just no way i could limit myself to even only 1 gram per day. Maybe 1 gram of oil. But flowers just don't do much for me anymore.
Thanks for the suggestion, but its not that the concentrates are too strong and getting me too high. I wish.. Its the fact that concentrates are the only thing that do get me medicated, but they cause me more mucus.
So downgrading to a less powerful device isn't what my issue is. But thanks for your effort/idea anyways!
Downgrading to a less powerful device may be exactly what you need! Since we are dealing with the mucus issue, it makes sense. I advise against shooting down suggestions without at least trying it first. The divine tribe for example is going to give you a much cooler hit, more reminiscent of a flower vape than an enail. The upside to that is flavor is outstanding since you're vaporizing the oil in the 400 degree range mostly and those terps can really shine through and there is medicinal value here!
Since you are a patient, as I am, and your symptoms require you to consume a very high amount of cannabanoids to have relief, have you considered dosing edibles as a supplement with your vapor meds? I have found that eating 25mg of edibles during the daytime with vapor supplements for relief, and 50mg during the evenings to be a great way to prolong the effects of the vapor ingested meds. For point of reference, I consume about 7gr of concentrate a month which is roughly about an ounce of flower. My 25mg of edibles may equal your 250mg of edibles. Take heed!
You can test this method for yourself, when you wake up, be sure to eat something, then dose 25mg of edible cannabis (I like to make my own edibles from concentrate), wait about an hour or longer if able, then have your vapor session. You may find that you are not returning to your vape or rig for 4 hours! For me this was huge as I can cut back on my vaping by supplementing edibles alongside. Also, for some symptoms edibles seem to have better relief than vapor.
Since you are a patient, as I am, and your symptoms require you to consume a very high amount of cannabanoids to have relief, have you considered dosing edibles as a supplement with your vapor meds? I have found that eating 25mg of edibles during the daytime with vapor supplements for relief, and 50mg during the evenings to be a great way to prolong the effects of the vapor ingested meds. For point of reference, I consume about 7gr of concentrate a month which is roughly about an ounce of flower. My 25mg of edibles may equal your 250mg of edibles. Take heed!
You can test this method for yourself, when you wake up, be sure to eat something, then dose 25mg of edible cannabis (I like to make my own edibles from concentrate), wait about an hour or longer if able, then have your vapor session. You may find that you are not returning to your vape or rig for 4 hours! For me this was huge as I can cut back on my vaping by supplementing edibles alongside. Also, for some symptoms edibles seem to have better relief than vapor.
mc
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean too strong as in THC content, I meant harsh on the body. I can't dab, it makes me sweat and flem up. By a wax pen doesn't have the same effect.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Downgrading to a less powerful device may be exactly what you need! Since we are dealing with the mucus issue, it makes sense. I advise against shooting down suggestions without at least trying it first. The divine tribe for example is going to give you a much cooler hit, more reminiscent of a flower vape than an enail. The upside to that is flavor is outstanding since you're vaporizing the oil in the 400 degree range mostly and those terps can really shine through and there is medicinal value here!
Since you are a patient, as I am, and your symptoms require you to consume a very high amount of cannabanoids to have relief, have you considered dosing edibles as a supplement with your vapor meds? I have found that eating 25mg of edibles during the daytime with vapor supplements for relief, and 50mg during the evenings to be a great way to prolong the effects of the vapor ingested meds. For point of reference, I consume about 7gr of concentrate a month which is roughly about an ounce of flower. My 25mg of edibles may equal your 250mg of edibles. Take heed!
You can test this method for yourself, when you wake up, be sure to eat something, then dose 25mg of edible cannabis (I like to make my own edibles from concentrate), wait about an hour or longer if able, then have your vapor session. You may find that you are not returning to your vape or rig for 4 hours! For me this was huge as I can cut back on my vaping by supplementing edibles alongside. Also, for some symptoms edibles seem to have better relief than vapor.
Well I've had pens in the past and just know that they are not powerful enough for me. Plus i also have a VapeXhale Cloud EVO and have tried concentrates at 300-350 degrees F range and mucus still occurs. But now, I have found the lower temperature to provide a much different buzz/high which is nice to have the option laying around.
And then thanks for the edibles suggestion, but unfortunately i have Gastroparesis (another reason for my large consumption amount, i cant poop if i dont vape)
But so anyways because of my Gastroparesis i never know when the edible will start to effect me.
Gastroparesis is delayed emptying of the stomach. so digestion time can vary.
So for example, the average person starts to feel the effects of an edible after an hour or so of being digested, but with gastroparisis my edible might not kick in until multiple hours later (when i no longer need it)
i could totally see how combing edibles and vape session would help.
So speaking of that, I've found alcohol can help my super high tolerance. I am not a fan of alcohol compared to cannbis, but the truth is that alcohol helps me feel the effects of my cannabis much more.
For example, when i said earlier a .2 rip of flower will only have me medicated for 2 minutes at most, well if I've consumed a good amount of alcohol that .2 will have me much more medicated and for longer as well.
Like i said, I'm not a die hard alcohol fan. But i did want to discuss because flowers dont work on me like others (when i dont have alcohol in my system)
Obviously I'm combining two substances together so the effects are going to be stronger.
But do you have any experience / advice / info about why the alcohol allows me to actually feel the effects from flowers
Oh wow thats weird! And so you think it all has to do with the temperature??
Alcohol works as a pain reliever so it's not a surprise that you're feeling better from combining them, however, while I am not anti-alcohol, it is important to remember that alcohol is harmful to the body and if you are using it for medication you are going to need to monitor your consumption along with your liver. With cannabis it is far less harmful to the body. I advise against using alcohol for pain management, even as a supplement.
As a patient, you should consult your MMJ doctor to try and understand why you are experiencing these issues. Some of us are scientists but most of us are self educated, mostly with anecdotal evidence and difficult to provide proper medical advise.
Considering how easy it is to test some of these suggestions we have provided, I would advise to take the step and see how things go. Worst case scenario nothing changes and you're right where you are. Best case you have a breakthrough and your treatment improves.
As a patient, you should consult your MMJ doctor to try and understand why you are experiencing these issues. Some of us are scientists but most of us are self educated, mostly with anecdotal evidence and difficult to provide proper medical advise.
Considering how easy it is to test some of these suggestions we have provided, I would advise to take the step and see how things go. Worst case scenario nothing changes and you're right where you are. Best case you have a breakthrough and your treatment improves.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Alcohol works as a pain reliever so it's not a surprise that you're feeling better from combining them, however, while I am not anti-alcohol, it is important to remember that alcohol is harmful to the body and if you are using it for medication you are going to need to monitor your consumption along with your liver. With cannabis it is far less harmful to the body. I advise against using alcohol for pain management, even as a supplement.
As a patient, you should consult your MMJ doctor to try and understand why you are experiencing these issues. Some of us are scientists but most of us are self educated, mostly with anecdotal evidence and difficult to provide proper medical advise.
Considering how easy it is to test some of these suggestions we have provided, I would advise to take the step and see how things go. Worst case scenario nothing changes and you're right where you are. Best case you have a breakthrough and your treatment improves.
We are on the same page about alcohol. The only reason i use it is to help add potency to my cannabis' effects.
Alcohol is never abused by me (but can not say the same about cannabis)
i actually never drink alcohol without cannabis as well.
Its just something happened to my cannabis tolerance over time. Not sure what. But something changed to the point where i need cannabis and alcohol, or just concentrates to get satisfying results.
Guess ill just have to do some more experimenting
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Maybe you could bypass the stomach?
Two methods I'm aware of:
- Sublingual intake using a tincture (usually ethanol)
- Or suppository
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Man you're dabbing ~5x as much as I would ever dab in a day. If you are dabbing 1g of oil a day and vaping 5g of flower, you're going to be clogging up your respiratory tract. That is a lot of resin being consumed!
I dab about .2g a day usually, on a very unusually high dosage day, .5g may be reached. I have never dabbed 1g in a day. Now this is not to say that you do not need large doses, you may indeed need to use more mmj for your conditions than I do for mine of course. What you need to explore is whether you can resolve these issues by substituting dabs with other methods of administration.
Keep your dabbing consumption to a hard maximum of .4-.5g a day (or less if you can find a regime that allows you to do so) and supplement with oralmucosal sprays, sublingual meds, edibles and even suppositories. I'd also stop vaping flowers if I were in your position. If you can make good dabs, then inhale those instead. If you vape flowers, you're going to inhale a lot of extra particulates and/or degradation byproducts of plant detritus in order to consume the same amount of resin as if you dabbed the resin alone. If you need help preparing meds in these forms, PM me.
It sounds to me like you are simply inhaling too much resin too frequently, much of which will recondense in your upper respiratory tract and be coughed up again due to cannabis' various expectorant mechanisms of action. That sounds like normal bodily functioning if so. If you didn't cough up a bunch of mucus when you inhaled a hell of a lot of boiled resin like that, there'd be something strange going on!
I tend to dab on my SiC halo at 510-520f, much, much lower temp which also could explain some of the difference. Still, in my understanding of your usage, it seems that your problem is simply too much cumulative exposure to resin in your upper respiratory tract, the temp you use is not unreasonably hot really.
By the way, if there were pesticides in your flowers, you wouldn't be able to see them. It does sound like your flowers are of quite good quality otherwise though from those yields
In addition to the warnings above about alcohol: If I were in your position, I would completely avoid alcohol man. It is absolutely violent on your guts. If you have digestive tract related problems, the last thing that you want to do is consume alcohol for medical relief. It'll cause at least as much harm as it masks over time. Alcohol is not safe to consume in any quantity, and can be especially damaging to your digestive organs over time if you have a pre-existing condition, even in small amounts that would be less of a concern in healthier guts.
I can empathize with your situation man, it would definitely be more difficult to manage dose requirements that are so large. I'd want to dab it all too if I could, but your body is definitely telling you that you're inhaling too much of the sticky stuff from the sound of things.
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