Interesting News, Articles & Stuff

Farid

Well-Known Member
A new study published in The Annals of Internal Medicine sought to determine if gun ownership makes people safer. After all, that's why we want guns. To protect our families. They chose California as the test site due to their extensive records on gun owners.

This is 0% of why I own a firearm. I don't feel I need protection, and if I did I don't think a gun would give much peace of mind.

I like to shoot. That's it. I don't hunt, or carry, or make it my personality. I just shoot targets. It's fun.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
Even with the British version of the Jets and the Sharks running around knifing people, we'd kill for the UK's murder rate. Ours is 6 times higher. I remember hearing that we have more knife homicides per capita than the UK too, which wouldn't surprise me.

I might be wrong, but from the Time article it sounds like that study focused on handguns. Or studied homes that at least contained a handgun. To the best of my knowledge, no one with any power is proposing banning handguns. And even if they are, it would never happen.

I like to shoot. That's it. I don't hunt, or carry, or make it my personality. I just shoot targets. It's fun.

I agree. And that's the most honest framing of this whole thing. But you generally don't hear the argument "we shouldn't adopt any new gun control measures because guns are cool and shooting them is fun." It's always framed as a self defense issue. Defending your property and family.

But it if you run the numbers, owning a gun doesn't reduce your chances of you or your family getting murdered at all. Seems like a truth in advertising issue from the gun industry.
 

Cheebsy

Organicly inVerted

A new study published in The Annals of Internal Medicine sought to determine if gun ownership makes people safer. After all, that's why we want guns. To protect our families. They chose California as the test site due to their extensive records on gun owners.



18 million people studied over 12 years is definitely a statistically significant sample size. There have been other studies like this, but this is the first that looked at the safety of the entire household. In other words, the people guns are meant to protect. Let's see how they fared.



Ok, ok. But there's a lot of family members killing each other in that mix. I would never use my gun on a loved one! My guns are meant to protect me and my family from intruders. What do these smart ass science people have to say about that!



If there's a protective benefit to gun ownership, you'd think it would be apparent when looking at a huge population over a 12 year period.
I mean it seems kind of obvious to me but maybe in over simplifying things...

3 scenarios i can imagine. Someone comes into your home with the intent to have an argument... (Someone you know most likely according to that article), scenario 1 no gun is present and the argument happens old school

Scenario 2 you have a gun but the other party doesn't, there is a struggle and someone gets hurt, it doesn't matter who gets hurt, it's probably serious. Same could be true for knives but potential for damage is probably less.

Scenario 3 you both have a gun, you raise yours in protection and that very act causes a potentially fatal gunfight. How many knife fights do you hear of? Even near London I don't hear about them. You might hear about the use of a machete sometimes but that's the closest.

I'm sure there are scenarios where everyone is safe and others where the gun did indeed act as a deterrent i just don't like the odds when firearms are involved.

Btw, my knives all have points, much to my fingers detriment! 😜
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
I mean it seems kind of obvious to me but maybe in over simplifying things...

3 scenarios i can imagine. Someone comes into your home with the intent to have an argument... (Someone you know most likely according to that article), scenario 1 no gun is present and the argument happens old school

Scenario 2 you have a gun but the other party doesn't, there is a struggle and someone gets hurt, it doesn't matter who gets hurt, it's probably serious. Same could be true for knives but potential for damage is probably less.

Scenario 3 you both have a gun, you raise yours in protection and that very act causes a potentially fatal gunfight. How many knife fights do you hear of? Even near London I don't hear about them. You might hear about the use of a machete sometimes but that's the closest.

I'm sure there are scenarios where everyone is safe and others where the gun did indeed act as a deterrent i just don't like the odds when firearms are involved.

Btw, my knives all have points, much to my fingers detriment! 😜

It looks like the study ran the odds. 18 million people is a huge sample size. 12 years is a significant period of time. Whatever the situation may be, owning a gun doesn't seem to provide any sort of defense against getting murdered. Like if gun owners are able to brandish a gun and prevent a home invasion with any regularity, I'd imagine that would help drive the murder rate among gun owners down a bit compared to homes with no guns. But it didn't happen.

I know everyone is a special snowflake and believes that the second the shit hits the fan they'll transform from a guy who does spreadsheets 8 hours a day into John Wick. But they've run the odds and the odds are against that happening.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
I see it kind of like abstinence and getting pregnant. Of course abstinence is the best way to avoid getting pregnant. Just like not driving is the best way to avoid getting in a car accident. But if we make the choice to expose ourselves to those risks we can choose to do it safely by using protection or wearing a seat belt.

Personally I'm most concerned about the risk of accidental discharge. The self defense people are always advocates of "one in the chamber" which I just think is an extremely unnecessary risk. Sure if you were in a scenario where you had to draw a weapon it would be beneficial, but the chances of that being the case are much lower than the chances of an accidental discharge.
 

MilesHigh

Well-Known Member
I see it kind of like abstinence and getting pregnant. Of course abstinence is the best way to avoid getting pregnant. Just like not driving is the best way to avoid getting in a car accident. But if we make the choice to expose ourselves to those risks we can choose to do it safely by using protection or wearing a seat belt.

Personally I'm most concerned about the risk of accidental discharge. The self defense people are always advocates of "one in the chamber" which I just think is an extremely unnecessary risk. Sure if you were in a scenario where you had to draw a weapon it would be beneficial, but the chances of that being the case are much lower than the chances of an accidental discharge.

I'm a bit of an jerk ( no kidding right?) on the subject of self defense but especially on firearms.
Carry of a sidearm for self defense requires far more training and lifestyle cbanges, (clothing, mindset) than tbe average person will do. Offbody ( pocketbooks, backpacks, car, desk drawers) carry is totally unsafe and essentially useless. If you dont have the right mindset and training you are not "well regulated" you're a idiot and a threat to everyone around you.

I think we need zero tolerance on the subject, carry a rifle to the grocery store? You're an idiot, you dont understand the weapon, its use and are therfore not well regulated, you should lose the right to own the weapon on the spot. You cant use an AR to stop a bad guy on a crowded street or public place. Even if you are a great shot, you will have rounds passing through the target, you fail situational awareness and thus no guns for you.

Accidental discharges dont exist. They're a fancy way of avoiding responsibility for being an idiot. There are negligent discharges though and if you have one, your right to carry in public should be gone. Leave your gun in the bathroom like so many cops have? Lose the right to carry, clearly you arent up to the responsibility. If you carry in public you should have to qualify monthly at the range.

I dont carry off my land these days because I know I dont stay current enough to be competent if things go sideways. I am every bit pro gun as I am anti idiot. Do it right, or not at all.
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
How does everyone feel about not knowing when you're hanging out with someone who is legally carrying a concealed pistol? This has happened to me twice.

I am an avid outdoor dude...kayaking in the back creeks with the gators, fishing, shrimping, etc. I'm not big on hunting with a gun but have nothing against it as long as its not trophy hunting...you kill it you eat it is fine with me. I'm sure I'm triggering (pun intended) folks with the hunting thing. Some folks will have a fit over hunting something with a face but have no problem fishing. Just to be clear...I'm not condoning hunting things that are endangered but I can tell you when the feral pigs in groups of 20 to 40 start tearing up the neighborhood there is nobody suggesting they shouldn't be hunted/culled. And yes....we are building out their habitat which is causing more interactions with wild life. With my love for the outdoor stuff I am friends with like minded folk and this is where the hanging out with those legally carrying without me knowing it comes in. Nobody's hiding anything purposely. It's just not a big deal to some who grew up with guns.

In one case we were going to a outdoor sporting event. A friend forgot he was carrying and after we got to the entrance by bus and were searched .... we had to go all the way back to the parking lot on another bus so he could lock the pistol in the car. In another case a friend was leaving my house late in the evening and was stopped by a woman at the entrance of my development looking for a group of boys who were pool hopping the neighborhood naked. My friend stopped for the distressed woman because he's that kind of guy. He called me to come to the entrance of the development and when I got there on my bike the cops were talking to my friend at his car and not the woman.....because when the cops got there my friend told the cops he was legally carrying and they wanted to check that out before dealing with the woman.

We moved to this area from up north decades ago and one of the first things that struck me funny was a sign covering two businesses that were right next to each other in a rural area about 15 minutes away. One was a general store kind of thing that sold beer and the other was a gun shop. The sign hanging over both businesses said "Guns and Beer sold here". The gun shop has been closed for years and the sign is long gone but even though that sign seemed comical to me back then it was my first recollection that things might be a little different down here.

Another comical incident ... when the feral pigs were tearing properties up each night and had started coming through my backyard one of my gun owning friends suggested we sit on my patio through the wee hours with shotguns and get some ham. My wife said "You two assholes sitting in the dark in the middle of the night on the patio with shotguns. What could possibly go wrong?" Well....at least I would know he was carrying. Pretty sure its illegal to shoot a gun in a residential development anyway.

So the question remains......do you think you are entitled to know when someone you're hanging out with is carrying?
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
The simple answer is that it drives me a little nuts. Concealed carry permits (frankly any carry permit) have a purpose for folks who actually need them, but that is actually a select few and should include a requirement to prove your competence and to regularly re qualify. The reduction in requirements to concealed carry, and especially states like Tennessee that don't even require a permit are nothing but an invitation for mayhem and chaos. And it makes it practically impossible for law enforcement to do their jobs, and especially to protect us from crazies and idiots.

Not that I have an opinion on the matter... :rolleyes:
 

MilesHigh

Well-Known Member
If that ever happened to me, I would be furious. Absolutely outraged that I failed to notice. Every close friend I have carries at least one concealed firearm and several knives. All are professionals who have private ranges on thier property as I do. They all also carry in the holsters made for them by me. I made the majority of the knives they carry as well. I always assume everyone I encounter
is armed and habitually scan for the weapon. If I encounter a friend who isnt carrying I usally ask hey dude where's your piece? Everything alright? I personally dont carry sidearms since I understand thier job and limitations. I carry knives instead. Most shootings occur inside 20 feet according to FBI statistics and as proven time and time again (Tueller's drill) a knife is faster and a more sure "hit" inside 21 feet with no fear of collateral damage.

The video below contains simulation of knife attacks so viewers beware.

 
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florduh

Well-Known Member
I stopped using my CWL license in FL once I realized it's almost always more trouble than it's worth. I'm also not totally sure that it's completely legal to be a medical marijuana patient and a CWL license holder in FL. I've heard multiple things about it. In any case, I generally felt less safe carrying, mostly due to fear of cops. They're allowed to murder for just THINKING you have a gun.

In FL, I'm almost certainly more likely to get struck by lightning than get into a situation where I need to use a gun. But I don't carry a lightning rod everywhere I go because that would be a pain in the ass. I sort of feel the same way about the CWL.

I will say, the amount of "training" required for concealed weapons in FL is almost a perfect advertisement for getting the license though. I remember thinking "Oh shit, that's it?!" Sort of makes you want to be strapped knowing there's people this ill trained with guns running around everywhere.

I feel the same way about cops though, knowing they hit their target like 20% of the time. I'm still waiting to get reimbursed from my rental car getting shot by cops in Louisiana last year. A bunch of them started emptying their clips at a guy running away outside of where we were staying. He was unarmed (they had him detained for 20 min before he ran). Nothing like having to hit the deck while on vacation. Felt so "served and protected".
 

MilesHigh

Well-Known Member
I stopped using my CWL license in FL once I realized it's almost always more trouble than it's worth. I'm also not totally sure that it's completely legal to be a medical marijuana patient and a CWL license holder in FL. I've heard multiple things about it. In any case, I generally felt less safe carrying, mostly due to fear of cops. They're allowed to murder for just THINKING you have a gun.

In FL, I'm almost certainly more likely to get struck by lightning than get into a situation where I need to use a gun. But I don't carry a lightning rod everywhere I go because that would be a pain in the ass. I sort of feel the same way about the CWL.

I will say, the amount of "training" required for concealed weapons in FL is almost a perfect advertisement for getting the license though. I remember thinking "Oh shit, that's it?!" Sort of makes you want to be strapped knowing there's people this ill trained with guns running around everywhere.

I feel the same way about cops though, knowing they hit their target like 20% of the time. I'm still waiting to get reimbursed from my rental car getting shot by cops in Louisiana last year. A bunch of them started emptying their clips at a guy running away outside of where we were staying. He was unarmed (they had him detained for 20 min before he ran). Nothing like having to hit the deck while on vacation. Felt so "served and protected".

Indeed,. Absolutely nothing is scarier than realizing how poorly the average police officer is trained. They also tend to have a shoot first and lie about it later attitude these days.

I regularly sell my knives and kydex holsters and sheaths at gun shows around the nation. I almost always comment to fellow venders a trip to the gun show should scare anyone to death. The number of people buying guns with terrible situational awareness and fitness levels is horrifying. Poor trigger control and waving barrels about is more common than not. I'm all for tbe 2nd Amendment, but it clearly says well regulated and nothing about the average buyer at a gun show is well regulated, nothing.
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Question still remains though .... Does anyone think they're entitled to know that they're hanging out with someone legally carrying a concealed weapon? I get that there are many scenarios like....it's not a friend, it is a friend, in my house, not in my house, the person is in law enforcement, the person isn't in law enforcement, etc......

I'm really torn on this one. I think if I am in MY car with you or in my home I would like to know. Out kayaking or four wheeling.... not so sure "I'm entitled to know" but I would like to.

I had another friend who was in the middle of a really ugly divorce and thought he needed to protect himself because he wouldn't put it past his wife to try and have him killed. I wouldn't put it past her either and I knew he was legal so I took it for granted he was always carrying.

A comical event that could have ended badly....a co-worker who owned a working farm and 20 acres would invite folks up to shoot guns and check out the farm. This one time he invited the girlfriends and wives. The first thing he does is position everyone a good 20 yards behind where the shooter would be and gives out instructions like never point a gun at anyone for any reason. I shoot a couple rounds and he then asked my wife if she would like to give it a try. Knowing my wife I reiterated as seriously as possible....once she has the gun in her hands she shouldn't point it at anyone for any reason and to keep her fingers off the trigger unless she is going to pull it. She lets go her first round and immediately turns around with the rifle pointing straight ahead to smile and ask if it always kicks/hurts like that. None of us answered here because we were too busy diving in a 100 different directions while screaming for her to turn around toward the targets. It was like something you'd see on I love Lucy.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
I regularly sell my knives and kydex holsters and sheaths at gun shows around the nation. I almost always comment to fellow venders a trip to the gun show should scare anyone to death.

I used to go to gun shows with my dad pretty regularly. It always struck me that the vendors and the customers were two verrrry different kinds of people. Vendors always seemed way more chill and, well, normal. Can't think of a more polite way to put it.

I'm all for tbe 2nd Amendment, but it clearly says well regulated and nothing about the average buyer at a gun show is well regulated, nothing.

Yeah, people never read the whole thing haha. There's an idea out there that the Second Amendment is in place in case we need to overthrow the government. That's a modern idea, not something the Founders were out there talking about. That Jefferson quote about "watering the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots" is about the French Revolution. Not America. The Founders actually believed in all this democracy stuff. They didn't want anyone overthrowing it.

The 2A was put in there because there was a huge debate about having a standing national army. Some were worried that an army could be used for a counter-revolution. That's pretty common throughout history. The compromise was to have State militias. They were there to ensure the security of our Free State against foreign armies (and to catch runaway slaves, but that's another story).

So it seems very obvious to me that the Founders would be more than ok with regulating the "militia", including mandating training. How else would the militia be prepared to defend our Free State? Maybe it wasn't as necessary a few centuries ago. People just had to learn to properly use firearms to fend of Indians and whatnot. But it's definitely necessary now.

Also the people against having a standing army were proven completely wrong in 1812.

whburn.jpg


Question still remains though .... Does anyone think they're entitled to know that they're hanging out with someone legally carrying a concealed weapon?

I think you have it right. I'd like to know if you're bringing a firearm into my home or car. Out and about, I guess it's not really my business. I only know a few people who are serious about CnC though and they all tell everyone who will listen.
 

MilesHigh

Well-Known Member
When I used to carry at all times I would always ask my hosts where I can place any firearm or knife over 10 inches wben I enter thier home. Most laughed and said keep it Bro, no worries. Strangers have no business knowing what and where I carry nor do those I'm casually acquainted with. If you know me well enough to be in the loop you already know I have several weapons on my person and you also know I've spent most of my life honing myself into a weapon. I don't advertise this fact with hats, shirts, bumper stickers or tattoos. You'll likely see a knife or two if you pay close attention though.
 

shredder

Well-Known Member
When I used to carry at all times I would always ask my hosts where I can place any firearm or knife over 10 inches wben I enter thier home. Most laughed and said keep it Bro, no worries. Strangers have no business knowing what and where I carry nor do those I'm casually acquainted with. If you know me well enough to be in the loop you already know I have several weapons on my person and you also know I've spent most of my life honing myself into a weapon. I don't advertise this fact with hats, shirts, bumper stickers or tattoos. You'll likely see a knife or two if you pay close attention though.

Do you have a lot of enemies?
 

MilesHigh

Well-Known Member
Do you have a lot of enemies?

Not anymore. 😁

I grew up with a dad who was a bodyguard. Once I figured out I could get paid to shoot guns and learn martial arts I never looked back.

I worked in some very dangerous places in the USA and around the globe, made a lot of friends, met some not so friendly people as well. For instance, I had a home invasion from a disgruntled group of idiots who ride motorcycles and all wear similar clothing that didnt appreciate my stopping thier manhandling of local women in my line of sight.

I am going to quote my favorite author once again...

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken

I'm a firm believer in handling my own issues. Why call someone else's husband, brother, or son to come protect my wife and kids or me? We have all seen how that works out. I used to tell my clients if they learned to be thier own bodyguard they wouldnt need to be paying me so much money. Confidence in myself, and my family's safety is the most important and valuable commodity in today's world. Why expect/trust someone else to do something you wont? Its like the old saying, if you want something done right do it yourself. I also tell clients something a fellow teacher told me, if you love someone, teach them the knife, no one will ever lay a hand on them.
 
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MilesHigh,

florduh

Well-Known Member
Smart dad (?), smarter kids.
"FU, daddy!"


Ok, now Musk's public breakdown is making more sense. His latest ex and mother of some of his children is now fucking Chelsea Manning too.


The sheer amount of Divorced Dad energy emanating from Musk could probably power his future Mars Colony/death trap.
 
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MilesHigh

Well-Known Member

This makes me sick to my stomach.

It also highlights the issue with law enforcement as a protective force. This wasnt even a trained and determined attacker, it was an untrained punk. He still scared the shit out of the cops to the point they did nothing while be took his time hunting and killing children.

Remember the Dorner incident? They shot two paper ladies and a surfer...and when tbey finally caught up with him they chose arson, yep burned the building down with him inside rather than sending in a tactical unit. What were the odds at the school, at least 40 to 1? And the only ones who opened the unlocked door and went in to stop the murder were the border patrol after almost 53 minutes.

Just call 911 and wait for the professionals to arrive.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member

This makes me sick to my stomach.

It also highlights the issue with law enforcement as a protective force. This wasnt even a trained and determined attacker, it was an untrained punk. He still scared the shit out of the cops to the point they did nothing while be took his time hunting and killing children.

Remember the Dorner incident? They shot two paper ladies and a surfer...and when tbey finally caught up with him they chose arson, yep burned the building down with him inside rather than sending in a tactical unit. What were the odds at the school, at least 40 to 1? And the only ones who opened the unlocked door and went in to stop the murder were the border patrol after almost 53 minutes.

Just call 911 and wait for the professionals to arrive.

The link is unfortunately showing it's only for subscribers. I think this covers the same info though...


They had the weaponry and the manpower necessary to prevent at least some of those murders.

Uvalde%20Footage%20Frame.jpg


To the best of my knowledge, no one has lost their job over this. Fuck, man. How are these parents ever going to get over this rage? I'm furious and this didn't affect me at all.

I forgot all about an incident last year in Colorado where this 20 something dude stopped a mass shooter. Then the cops showed up and murdered him.


That's what makes the Uvalde situation so infuriating. When it comes to murdering innocent people, these pussies usually shoot first and ask questions later.
 
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