Interesting moral quandary
- Thread starter Plotinus
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VWFringe
Naruto Fan
Did anyone catch the news about the Israeli spy who reported Iran's nuclear program is years from making a bomb, and that the US government wasn't happy about him saying it?
didn't get much air time probably
In Appology of an Economic Hitman, the guy shows tells from first hand experience that the US made a gentlemen's agreement back in the 70's that we won't interfere with their government, help keep their ruling family in power, in exchange they keep the oil prices so we can afford them. He says its not written down anywhere, but it's true, and that it is important for all Americans to understand that 9/11 was blow-back for our involvement in the middle east, and specifically for what we did with Saudi. (he points out ten of the 9/11 bombers were Saudi, and no Saudi's were ever charged)
I highly recommend those two documentaries, it's allowed me to see the spin in the popular media like i never did before...it's like...way, way worse than subliminal advertising...which i thought was evil when i was a teenager.
And, Can you imagine having to live in a Dictatorship, knowing it's there because the American's put them there, like in Saudi, and in Iran from 1953-1979 (they had elected a guy democraticly, and we, our fore-father's or whatever, installed the Shah because we didn't like their democracy, or the guy they elected).
it's amazing that a lot of them still like us, but i think, from the iranian men I've been quizzing, that they see the American peeople as good, but that their government just wants...it all.
didn't get much air time probably
fidget said:
In Appology of an Economic Hitman, the guy shows tells from first hand experience that the US made a gentlemen's agreement back in the 70's that we won't interfere with their government, help keep their ruling family in power, in exchange they keep the oil prices so we can afford them. He says its not written down anywhere, but it's true, and that it is important for all Americans to understand that 9/11 was blow-back for our involvement in the middle east, and specifically for what we did with Saudi. (he points out ten of the 9/11 bombers were Saudi, and no Saudi's were ever charged)
I highly recommend those two documentaries, it's allowed me to see the spin in the popular media like i never did before...it's like...way, way worse than subliminal advertising...which i thought was evil when i was a teenager.
And, Can you imagine having to live in a Dictatorship, knowing it's there because the American's put them there, like in Saudi, and in Iran from 1953-1979 (they had elected a guy democraticly, and we, our fore-father's or whatever, installed the Shah because we didn't like their democracy, or the guy they elected).
it's amazing that a lot of them still like us, but i think, from the iranian men I've been quizzing, that they see the American peeople as good, but that their government just wants...it all.
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
Actually it's 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 that were from Saudi Arabia. 
That fact that we buy so much oil from the Saudi's is disturbing enough, but then you hear about the 60 Billion dollar arms deal we made with them a few months ago. So we give them money for oil, then they use that money to buy 60 Billion dollars worth of military goods from us. And then there is the text books in their schools that literally say that Jews are dirty monkeys and shows pictures with dotted lines to show young children where one would cut to remove a hand or foot on someone for punishment due to a crime. Crazy shit indeed.
Woohoo
That fact that we buy so much oil from the Saudi's is disturbing enough, but then you hear about the 60 Billion dollar arms deal we made with them a few months ago. So we give them money for oil, then they use that money to buy 60 Billion dollars worth of military goods from us. And then there is the text books in their schools that literally say that Jews are dirty monkeys and shows pictures with dotted lines to show young children where one would cut to remove a hand or foot on someone for punishment due to a crime. Crazy shit indeed.
Woohoo
Hm. I think there actually is a great deal on paper about our lukewarm alliance with the Saud family. Maybe nothing explicit about low prices for regime support, but that's pretty much common knowledge. It's not "sanctions," though - if anything, it's the opposite.
And I'm wary of ascribing any single cause to 9/11. Too many people play that game, and they all have different causes in mind. Our support for autocratic regimes, especially ones as nasty as the Saudis, certainly isn't doing us any favors. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you ignore the other factors: our trade policy, our support for Israel, the growing influence of radical Islamism, etc etc.
As for the "Israeli spy" - that was actually Meir Dagan, the chief of the Mossad (Israeli CIA), not himself a spy. He is a legend in Israel, not least for the amazing destruction of Syria's nuclear program in 2007. He had the second longest tenure as Mossad chief (second only to the guy responsible for the even more amazing Raid on Entebbe), and has earned a great deal of respect among Israeli and American intelligence analysts and government officials.
Funny how fast it all melted away when he said something they didn't want to hear. I guess that's a consequence of living in an age of ideology first, rationality second. With any luck we'll one day see him in the Prime Minister role.
And I'm wary of ascribing any single cause to 9/11. Too many people play that game, and they all have different causes in mind. Our support for autocratic regimes, especially ones as nasty as the Saudis, certainly isn't doing us any favors. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you ignore the other factors: our trade policy, our support for Israel, the growing influence of radical Islamism, etc etc.
As for the "Israeli spy" - that was actually Meir Dagan, the chief of the Mossad (Israeli CIA), not himself a spy. He is a legend in Israel, not least for the amazing destruction of Syria's nuclear program in 2007. He had the second longest tenure as Mossad chief (second only to the guy responsible for the even more amazing Raid on Entebbe), and has earned a great deal of respect among Israeli and American intelligence analysts and government officials.
Funny how fast it all melted away when he said something they didn't want to hear. I guess that's a consequence of living in an age of ideology first, rationality second. With any luck we'll one day see him in the Prime Minister role.
thedeserttortoise
Well-Known Member
Remember... we (the CIA)were basically hired by BP (British Petroleum) to produce the coup in Iran in 1953 that led to the installment of a new shaw that could finally see things the way BP thought the government of Iran should. I think the next year (1955) Guatemala learned that you can't mess around with corporate interests the same way.... the CIA led a successful coup that furthered the interests of United Fruit. Next stop....Cuba.....guess what? Castro won and nationalized everything in Cuba. Threw the blood sucking corporations out.....and guess what kids..... of all the countries in the world right now...because of sanctions....Cuba has been declared by many economists to be the strongest independent country out there based on self sufficiency as a nation. If the world hit rock bottom today... Cuba could still clothe, shelter, and feed its people. There's become a unique cohesion amongst the leaders of Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, and I believe Paraguay, and Brazil. Its based on the philosophy of Simon Bolivar who led the march for democracy in South America in the early 1800's. By the way....did you know that our new US Embassy in Iraq is bigger than Vatican City. The new US air base at Baghdad is also the largest in the region. And to think that the fucking World Court had the nerve to condemn the US for being a terrorist nation....you know...from the inside looking out...we have a great country. It's just begun to look a little shady from the outside in....
VWFringe
Naruto Fan
thanks, guys, i just started learning about this stuff, was never interested before I got laid off and started watching link tv. hahaha
Sorry if i start to spit sometimes.
I saw some other documentaries which opened my eyes to the Palesine conflict..."Robert Fisk: Lies and Mis-Reporting in the Middle-East" (he said, "Google Area C, that's what it's all about!" so i did, and was amazed I never saw that before, they kind of gloss over that on the regular news...now i watch at least one episode of Al Jazeera English each week (funny to see the spin other parts of the world put into their "news" like on RT (Russia Television) and Deutsche World (German news) they show the map of Israel as including Palestine.
As I learn what little I learn from the documentaries, I'm finding I can't watch certain shows anymore, like I see they're trying to convert me to a way of thinking I don't like, and even the documentaries are getting really annoying...I like the message, but it takes an hour and a half to get accross a couple of pages of information, sucks.
Sorry if i start to spit sometimes.
I saw some other documentaries which opened my eyes to the Palesine conflict..."Robert Fisk: Lies and Mis-Reporting in the Middle-East" (he said, "Google Area C, that's what it's all about!" so i did, and was amazed I never saw that before, they kind of gloss over that on the regular news...now i watch at least one episode of Al Jazeera English each week (funny to see the spin other parts of the world put into their "news" like on RT (Russia Television) and Deutsche World (German news) they show the map of Israel as including Palestine.
As I learn what little I learn from the documentaries, I'm finding I can't watch certain shows anymore, like I see they're trying to convert me to a way of thinking I don't like, and even the documentaries are getting really annoying...I like the message, but it takes an hour and a half to get accross a couple of pages of information, sucks.
VWFringe said:
The printed page is your friend. Or the blog if you're more inclined. Either way, the best quality journalism is still being done in words, not pictures. Documentary films can be very effective, but for accuracy you cannot beat the long magazine article or book.