Inductive power

[nr-cole]

This came up in the Underdog thread. Could anybody familiar with where inductive charging technology is at care to chime in on whether it could work with a vaporizer? I remember seeing a concept recently where you'd have an inductive charging pad built into your driveway and you could park your electric car on top of it to charge the battery over night. Now imagine parking your log vape on top of a pad and picking it up when you feel like a hit?

In my mind given that log vapes have such high heat retention they'd be perfect for something like this. Since they generally use a low amount of power (12v/1a) it seems like it might be feasible. Any thoughts?

 

[OO]

i might have the product for you, give me some specs that sound reasonable, and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Egzoset]

I'm really dispointed. HONNESTLY!



I thought this thread was about using inductive power being used to vaporize cannabis!!! Not just to get rid of an unsignificant low-voltage power cable!...



That title is totally misleading, "charging" batteries is a portable thing for starters and the title should have been reflecting this!!!

Why not use REAL induction power directly and benefit from a most special gift nature gave us by making this possible:



Temperature control is "built-in" at the molecular level, no heat source can be made any safer for our need and the cost of the raw material required would be trivial! What's the vaporist community waiting for? I wonder - genuinely!...

 

[gvape]

i might have the product for you, give me some specs that sound reasonable, and I'll see what I can do.

Log vapes need a min of 800 mah I believe, but most use a 1000mah power adapters. Therefore anything that could power that amount with I would say at least 5 minutes of battery life.. obviously the more the better though. Diameter of the charger shouldnt be too big either... I would try to keep it under 2.5 inches if possible... Just dont want a huge vape in the hand.

 

[Alan]

It should be possible to build a receiving coil into the log vape that will produce 12 volts with sufficient amps to power the heating element when placed on a base unit based upon how much power they are able to transfer with the small table top pan heating units. The base unit could have a digital display for temperature control and timer functions. That would definitely be a new technology level for log vapes.
I was thinking about induction heating a lot on my recent 52 hour drive thanks to Egzoset. Hadn't thought about that one though. Great idea. I was thinking more about portable / battery powered induction units.

 

[nr-cole]

I'm really dispointed. HONNESTLY!



I thought this thread was about using inductive power being used to vaporize cannabis!!! Not just to get rid of an unsignificant low-voltage power cable!...



That title is totally misleading, "charging" batteries is a portable thing for starters and the title should have been reflecting this!!!

Why not use REAL induction power directly and benefit from a most special gift nature gave us by making this possible:

http://oi56.tinypic.com/34snecy.jpg

Temperature control is "built-in" at the molecular level, no heat source can be made any safer for our need and the cost of the raw material required would be trivial! What's the vaporist community waiting for? I wonder - genuinely!...

I actually wasn't talking about charging a battery, but more in line with what you're talking about. The SS heating element in a log vape would behave like a pan or pot in the technology you mention, in that it would be heated by sitting on the base. As long as it had been sitting there for thirty minutes to an hour you could pick it up, hit it, and put it back on the pad. Logs tend to stay hot for a couple hits even if you remove your power source, correct?

 

[gvape]

nr-cole, my idea is roughly the same. You would need to let it heat up on the base for the XX minute warp up time and then once it was warm you could pick it up and hit it. The battery inside the unit would just provide enough time where you could finish at least one stem (or many more depending on the battery), and then just place it back down and have it charge that time back up. Leaving it always hands free.

Would love to have some base with the digital temp, timer, and other features that may be thought of.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi,

I guess i will survive this. Ferro-magnetic induction heating is one of the most efficient ways to convert electrical power into heat and it has been for decades. For technical reasons i doubt it can be adapted to work in portable applications though, which in the context of wireless battery charging simply doesn't make sense anyway. An induction cooker like the one illustrated in my previous post requires a disc made of some specially formulated ferro-magnetic alloy that needs to sit directly on the plate's surface. Discs of less than about 5 inches are rejected by the induction cooker (it detects the "faulty" cooking accessory and turns off because the cooker plate needs a suitable "load"); other geometries are no option neither - meaning one just can't expect an induction cooker to charge any battery "wirelessly" whatsoever, if that's what one of us here happens to have in mind!...



The beauty of induction heating lies in its temperature regulation mechanism, provided that the Curie point is set to the desired vaporizing temperature, that is. This has nothing to do with implementing wireless charging i'm afraid! Sorry guys.

What i have in mind is a very different animal: a perfect "stealth" hot-air generator disguised as a CD case with a maze inside to transfer heat from its metal base to a vaporizing bowl fitting an opening on the top side, possibly compatible with GonG standards. Two or three pieces of metal with different Curie points would allow temperature control in a similar way to how we set the tenperature of water in our kitchens and bathrooms: simply by mixing the air streams together...

An other benefit of this technology would be the cost: how much would that be for a 5 to 8 inches (dia.) metal base and a couple glass conduits plus a bowl really! Certainly not as much as other devices capable of the same temperature regulation performance... Imagine: magnetically speaking a ferro-magetic allow becomes invisible when it reaches its Curie point, which means it cools off until it starts picking up magnetic energy again - effectively implementing a 100 % fool-proof (read my lips: 100 % reliable - did anyone get it?), euh... Where was i? Ah, yes: a closed loop that can be trusted, period, since temperatures beyond the Curie point are physically IMPOSSIBLE. How much do you think it costs to accomplish such a degree of safety for the military or the NASA?... I wonder!!!

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm...

Perhaps i should consider dealing with the military or the NASA about this!... They just might listen: a vaporizer worthy of military or NASA head professionals...

 

[Egzoset]

You Hou?!

NASA???

Got me on your radar!??

Don't those astronauts need a good vaporizer while they live in space?!...

 

[Egzoset]

Welcome to FC.

Well, i believe there's more to "induction" then you might suspect:

Induction Vaporizer (based on "Curie" alloys)

 

[weedemon]

hehe seems your on your own with this one bud, but i agree it sounds promising yes! i dont even understand how it works yet though haha

 

[Egzoset]

Hi,

...seems your on your own...

No big news to me at all...

By chance there's the internet:

Google: Curie+Point

 

[Egzoset]

Pop!

​

(AmannGirrbach - Noflame Plus)​

Any idea how hot the dental tools can get in this induction heater?

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations everybody,

Somehow i had a hint the concept of Induction Heating had been around for a while but i didn't know Curie-based self-regulation had been considered this early for domestic applications:

FR2453627 (B1) 1982/Dec/3 - Ustensile de cuisine à Fond Composite​

So, now it seems to me a more defined picture begins to emerge. Especially in light of this document (sorry, none of this was written in English since it comes from France):

Nouveaux alliages magnétiques FeNi pour la cuisson par Induction avec Auto-Régulation de Température​

Ah, finally there's good material which would allow this old ABV thread of mine to progress:

Induction Vaporizer (based on "Curie" alloys)​

1 year later...



Dream or fantasy?

What's the next portable you're planning to get?​

 

[Egzoset]

Woups!

(E.g. FIRE!!!)

​

​

Le Parisien - Gueugnon : 4000m² d'une usine du groupe Mittal partent en fumée (2012-Dec-24)​

« Un violent incendie a détruit une partie du bâtiment du fabricant de tôle fine en inox Aperam, contrôlé par la famille Mital... »​

Which in approximative terms means part of the Mital Aperam installations have been destroyed!



That's NOT good, especially before Christmass!

...

...it would be heated by sitting on the base. ...pick it up, hit it, and put it back on the pad. Logs tend to stay hot for a couple hits...

The battery inside the unit would just provide enough time where you could finish at least one stem (or many more depending on the battery), and then just place it back down and have it charge that time back up. Leaving it always hands free.

I'm revisiting this old topic and my interpretation of it leads to a significantly different perspective today, because there was time to think it over i guess. I'm sorry having to confess i went somewhat intensely focussed and failed to understand how those comments actually contributed a great deal to the present thread!!

A couple weeks ago LWien showed us how heat can be stored without any electronics simply by using some piece of volcanic rock as i recall. This concept could prove essential when adapted to some hypothetical induction heat-exchanger such as discussed previously!! Considering rock is relatively transparent to magnetic energy it wouldn't be a problem to wrap the heater Curie alloy with it, so heat can be stored passively... Brilliant.

It's coming very late but i think i finally see the beauty about it!

Hummm... But how would one want to call a vaporizer working like that??

Oh, what about: The LavaMag!... ...or InDuRoCk?...

 

[webb]

I really think inductive power will become more popular for the future of vaporizers. I think that heating elements will be outdone by some sort of glass+induction vaporizers.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Webb,

...the future of vaporizers...

I've never been very lucky with that particular topic, yet there's little doubt in my mind so here's the fix for what became a broken link after the last software update, as titled previously:

Induction Vaporizer (based on "Curie" alloys)​

Then some more:

L'Induction Magnétique au service du Vaporisme​

Heat Stream Lighter Ideas​

 

[lazylathe]

Not too sure how hot these get but they do get hot enough to melt wax and some plastics.
I will bring in my BBQ thermometer and attach it to a stainless steel tool to guage how hot it actually gets.

I have been looking at this for quite some time now!
We use those dental induction heaters at work and i want to borrow one to take some dimensions.
What i was thinking was to have a boro test tube that the lower end is covered by a thin stainless steel sheath. The stainless will heat up and transfer the energy to the glass as heat.
Then another test tube is inserted, there has to be a hole in the second tube for air to move through the herb, that has the herb and a stainless steel mesh screen and a mouthpiece.

Once i have all the measurements i will make up a prototype and see how it works.

You can pick up the ehaters off e bay for about $80

Some of the stats of the units we have at work are:
Voltage - 115V
Wattage - 100W
Amperage - 2A

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations LazyLathe,

Not too sure how hot these get but they do get hot enough to melt wax and some plastics.

Here's one easy way to find out:

YouTube: Salton ID-1081 (induction cooker) test (2010-Dec-21)​

« Experimention with Salton iD-1081 induction cooker using the 4 inches dia. bottom metal disk of a Planters "Cocktail Peanuts" package combined to Keyster 60/40 Solder Alloy (183°C - 188°C). »​

It should be possible to get a better idea about what to expect simply by replacing your wax or plastic load with electronic solder knowing that a coil of the later material happens to collapse under gravity as it melts, 185 °C being quite compatible with our application.

I will bring in my BBQ thermometer and attach it to a stainless steel tool to guage how hot it actually gets.

Even if your metal sample displays no temperature regulation feature it may still provide a valuable hint about how much time it would take for the NoFlame tool to generate a proper amount of heat within a suitable temperature range.

We use those dental induction heaters at work and i want to borrow one to take some dimensions.

Somehow i was confident i'd read something like this someday!

Once i have all the measurements i will make up a prototype and see how it works.

The VapBong (now known as the Vaponic) inspired me this fantasy a long while ago:

FC ABV: Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy (page 3)​

A spiral-shaped metal ribon would cause the inlet transit to appear longer while distributing heat more evenly...

 

[CentiZen]

What software do you use to do your visualizations egzoset? They are always so detailed.

 

[lazylathe]

Initial testing at work shows that a 2mm thick stainless steel tool will heat up to 230 Degrees Celsius in about 5 seconds.
I am taking the unit home this weekend for more testing and will upload some pictures!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations CentiZen,
Salutations LazyLathe,

What software do you use to do your visualizations Egzoset?

At the time it was MS-Paint + PhotoShop but i hardly do this anymore...

Initial testing at work shows that a 2mm thick stainless steel tool will heat up to 230 Degrees Celsius in about 5 seconds.

This sure sounds like some good preliminary finding, well done!!

Which makes me wonder... What about temperature using different loads (air vs vegetal oil, for example)?... Also, 230 °C happens to be the target temperature of PhyTherm 230 (Ni 50 Fe Cr 10):

Aperam: Nickel Iron and Cobalt Iron Cold Rolled Strips (page 4 of 648167 bytes .PDF document)​

Is it possible at all it's only the tool's surface which is made of stainless steel?...

I am taking the unit home this weekend for more testing and will upload some pictures!

Excellent! I guess you must be aware of my irresistible attraction for graphically descriptive illustrations!!

Good day, have fun!...

 

[Egzoset]

ADDENDUM:



Now that i think of it 2 mm doesn't sound realistic as i remember reading that an IH cooking pan made of some Curie alloy incorporates at least 5 layers, 1 copper and 1 aluminium if i'm not mistaking, plus the thermostatic NiFeCr core evidently. But that's only 3 so far, unless the core layer is wrapped with copper and aluminium (bottom + top), euh... If there's a 6th one that's probably were stainless steel comes in, i'll post a link if i ever find it again.

Hummm... Now that i think of it 2 mm seems thin, maybe too thin. So i suppose the metal tool can ge be solid SS metal, in which case it will eventually get hotter than 230 °C, or perhaps there's a timer in the NoFlame base IH unit or something. Too bad i don't do e-Shopping myself as i'd be playing with it too!

Now that i think of it, what would happen is the tool's tip got dipped into resin and then it's inserted into the machine?...

 

[lazylathe]

Further testing revealed some internal wizardry working to protect it from overheating anything.
I did not have time to machine a cup to go over the test tube so i tried some stainless steel shim stock i have.
Wound it around the test tube and inserted into machine.
Light changes from red to green indicating it is heating and almost immediately the cooling fan comes on and the LED flashes green/red to indicate overload.

Shimstock was almost glowing red by that time.
Must be a sensitive overload protection circuit…

I was thinking something like this might be better.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-generators/induction-heater-circuit