Increasing temps VS high initial temp?

[purplegrass]

I hope this isn't a done-to-death topic (I don't think it is as I am having trouble finding answers to it in the first place, hence this post)

Is there a difference between setting your temperature (assuming you have a vape with adjustable temps) on a lower heat, then a bit higher heat, and so on until you have reached a high vape temp.... as opposed to just setting the temp at a high temp.

Does heating it right away at a high temp actually destroy the chemicals that are released at the lower temps? or does it do a better job at releasing pretty much everything all at once?

I read an article that says if you want a mellow feel good high then 320, an intense energetic high then 365, a deep body relaxation high then 428.

what if you did all three in the same session with the same grass (start at 320, then 365, then 428), would that be best if you wanted to maximize the effects?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

320 sounds low to me.

i set my vape to 380°F ... it drifts up to 390°F during a 15 second hit (still haven't adjusted my PID values to compensate for the hotter ribbon coil) then returns to 380°F. i don't temp step or continue until the vapor stops ... after a dozen hits the cannabinoids are gone and the wispy vapor is just plant/leaf goop - maybe chlorophyll? .

two minute warm-up and heat saturation (also has radiant heat on the herb), then 4 to 5 minutes of hits to kill 0.12g of herb. ABV is exhausted and trashed.

i know my temps are accurate - using a contact probe with a BBQ thermometer, acting as the "fair witness" (concept borrowed from "Stranger in a Strange Land" - Robert Heinlein).

 

[CarolKing]

It depends on the vaporizer. I don't gradually increase the temp on my log vapes or my Grasshopper. I do increase the temp towards the end of my session with my Solo, Acsent, Air and the EVO. The temperature on one vaporizer that says 390 degrees could feel entirely different using the same temp on a different unit.

 

[huk_huk]

I like to start at a high temp and stay there. Big clouds from hit one and I find the taste okay. Too high temps ruin the vapor taste tho

 

[subway13029]

I've always wondered this too. Is the high better if temp step as opposed to just starting at the high temp?

 

[purplegrass]

thanks for the replies, hopefully we get a few more people chime in with their personal experiences

I've always wondered this too. Is the high better if temp step as opposed to just starting at the high temp?

that is basically exactly what I was trying to ask. maybe I didn't need to write 5 paragraphs to ask it lol

 

[subway13029]

thanks for the replies, hopefully we get a few more people chime in with their personal experiences



that is basically exactly what I was trying to ask. maybe I didn't need to write 5 paragraphs to ask it lol

ive been trying to ask that same question since i started vaping..its a hard question to word right and not sure if anyone knows the correct answer

 

[Little Bill]

ive been trying to ask that same question since i started vaping..its a hard question to word right and not sure if anyone knows the correct answer

The question doesn't change but the answer does change from user to user and with vaporizer to vaporizer. Does anyone know of a thread comparing experiences with vaporizers to experience with lovers? Because there should be one.

 

[invertedisdead]

I've always wondered this too. Is the high better if temp step as opposed to just starting at the high temp?

I find the high more psychedelic when you vaporize at specific temperatures versus temp stepping . A few bags @350F on a volcano digital can become a pretty cerebral experience.


But it depends what you're looking for.

 

[muunch]

I feel like I get more out of temp stepping, but I usually go right for high temps if I'm looking to get very baked very quick.

 

[purplegrass]

I find the high more psychedelic when you vaporize at specific temperatures versus temp stepping . A few bags @350F on a volcano digital can become a pretty cerebral experience.


But it depends what you're looking for.

thanks. So if you get a cerebral high on 350, then what if you still do the 350 but then increase the temp to say 390 and get whats left in there? would your cerebral high be kicked into another level or perhaps it remains the same but with a more sedative quality added?


I should mention that I have never temp stepped in a single session. when I used the volcano, I would start at like 350, then the next time I use would be at 375, then the next session at 420. And I certainly noticed each one went from more energetic to thoroughly sedated.

But this was in the volcano, so by the time I finished my bag (sometimes not even finishing it), I didn't want to do another one, so I would always call that a day.

But now that I have just purchased myself an evo, I should be able to try it out better, as I can take a hit or 2, increase the temp then hit it again, and should be able to do that in less than the time it takes to suck down a whole bag from the volcano.

 

[C No Ego]

thanks. So if you get a cerebral high on 350, then what if you still do the 350 but then increase the temp to say 390 and get whats left in there? would your cerebral high be kicked into another level or perhaps it remains the same but with a more sedative quality added?


I should mention that I have never temp stepped in a single session. when I used the volcano, I would start at like 350, then the next time I use would be at 375, then the next session at 420. And I certainly noticed each one went from more energetic to thoroughly sedated.

But this was in the volcano, so by the time I finished my bag (sometimes not even finishing it), I didn't want to do another one, so I would always call that a day.

But now that I have just purchased myself an evo, I should be able to try it out better, as I can take a hit or 2, increase the temp then hit it again, and should be able to do that in less than the time it takes to suck down a whole bag from the volcano.

temp stepping is better suited to a sip and hold type vape- or whip style draw tube etc.... I use the temp step approach on conduction portable vapes... you basically notice when a certain heat level stops delivering vapor and needs to be bumped up 10 degrees or so... IMO, using less heat at first helps retain terpenes longer than just blasting the herb with a high heat ( think smoking similarities) and it is the qualities in a vape that make vaporizers special cannabinoid/terpene delivery systems

 

[Diggy Smalls]

It really is up to the individual, homes. Why don't you try it out and report back your findings? Pretty easy, and fun.

For me, I've been using broken pieces from a nug in my Vapes, so I do the forest hot kind of light and break it up, then I hit it a little harder.

I tend to use manual convection Vapes where the user can control the vapor intensity with their draw technique. It's essentially the same thing, but I'm not adjusting the temperature of my device. Did that make any sense?

 

[subway13029]

so here is my who issue with all the different actives being released.. say you kill a bowl at 350? well in this line of thinking you cant because 350 wont extract everything out? or will it?? that is what gdts me all confused..

 

[invertedisdead]

so here is my who issue with all the different actives being released.. say you kill a bowl at 350? well in this line of thinking you cant because 350 wont extract everything out? or will it?? that is what gdts me all confused..

Technically there's more actives in there, but it may not be what one needs for their conditions.

For example, people treating mental health issues may not need the sedative properties of higher temps, so the remaining actives, although still present, may not be appropriate for the task at hand.

 

[Alexis]

so here is my who issue with all the different actives being released.. say you kill a bowl at 350? well in this line of thinking you cant because 350 wont extract everything out? or will it?? that is what gdts me all confused..

Im sure he didnt mean that he kills a bowl at 350, but that he sticks to that temp the first use of the volcano that day. Then I presume a bit later in the day, he hits the load again at 375, then again for a third time at 420. But all from the same bowl at different points of the day.

Either way it is a case of pros and cons, to an extent. If you go to a higher temp to begin with, you will get a bigger hit, than if you start lower, then go up, because many actives have been consumed on the lower temp, which would still be present in the higher heat from the start.
Some may be burned up a little. Taste may not be as good (usually).

Different ways to do things. I guess you have to draw the line. Say you started ridiculously low, and kept stepping up taking the smallest hits at a time. It would be pointless, so a line has to be drawn for each individual, which can change continuosly depending on mood.

Interestingly, Mark from Vriptech points out a crucial element of how the Vriptech Heat Wand works- by way of a "thermal curve" for broad spectrum and highly comcentrated vapor extractions.
So the VHW, used correctly, is basically temp stepping from 0 to 10 in a single hit, extracting the terpenes first, to the higher heat molecules towards end of the hit.

 

[MinnBobber]

I've always wondered this too. Is the high better if temp step as opposed to just starting at the high temp?

.....................................................................................................................................
I temp step a lot and it's a flavor and effect buffet as you go up the temp scale, and varies with different varieties.
Low temps offer up a crisp flavor extravaganza, as with a Super Lemon Haze, a flavor like you ran brisk mountain air over a lemon drop and into your mouth. Effects are more racey.
Things get bolder as you up the temp. Sometimes I'll vape one session all the way up to 445 F on herbalizer.
Other times I'll save 420 and 445 for bedtime as, by itself, those are more sedating.

Same load cranked up to 445 right away and holy shit, a massive amount of vapor and the taste is way full/bold with everything vaped up at once.

Neither is better, just different flavors and effects. Good to experiment

 

[MoltenTiger]

Key variables: material, vaporizer, tolerance

The material is always different with varying concentrations of a range of chemicals causing the desired effect by entering the bloodstream. It also varies in particle size/surface area and moisture content.
The vaporizer is also always different, with heat capacity, heat potential, selected temperature, ambient temperature, bowl size/shape and packed herb density all affecting the off-gas spectrum.
Tolerance varies person to person, day to day.

Individuals might find a certain combination 'better' than a different combo, but it's really just personal preference.

As a recreational user with a high tolerance, I tend to want the best efficacy from my herb that I can get. This isn't always the case, but I value cloud density above all else for most situations. I believe that the higher concentrated cloud will cause a higher concentration of actives absorbed into the blood, which leads to faster and more acute effect. The problem with faster onset, is a faster come down, and so this generally means I'll have to top up to avoid crashing.
A slower approach, starting at lower temps and taking smaller hits doesn't tend to wear me out so much.
Something I really value with my Grasshopper is it's ability to get dense clouds at low temps. I typically run my EQ at higher temps than the GH can reach, but I still don't get the cloud density offered by the GH at a selected 50*C less. If I turn the temp down on the EQ it just doesn't cloud up, although the flavour is nicer it's still quite subtle through that vape.
I temp step more often with the GH than the EQ, as it simply works a lot better for it.
Even still, I generally aim for only a few hits per bowl.

For seshing style vaporizers, temp stepping makes more sense as it will preserve the herb sample for longer allowing for more tokes per bowl. This will cause a different sensation to blasting chambers in one go, but a users tolerance will dictate how they tolerate either style.

In terms of chemical constituents effecting the high, this is emerging knowledge so there can't be any strict confidence given to the topic. But, seeing as I can receive similar cloud density across a reasonable temp spectrum with the hopper, I would suggest it's noticeable at a subtle level how different starting temps can create different sensations. As others have said, lower temps cause a more energetic high, where as temps bordering combustion are more sedative. This is most likely due to pyrolysis (higher energy breaking up different compounds), and it's likely that some of these promote lethargy (similar to something like naphthalene which is in mothballs, and just a simple double benzene ring, benzene has been found to be off-gassed by vaporising herbs and I think it's more likely at higher temps). The flavour profiles of the plant are thought to act with some synergism with cannabinoids, and so if there is a degradation of flavour then the terpenes responsible might have broken down causing more simplistic components that are probably less desirable, and removing the benefit the full flavour once had in the mixture.

 

[C No Ego]

^ if I could like your post a thousand times @MoltenTiger I would! Great post!

High heat phyto-cannabinoids that get released @ over 400 degrees can also release with longer slow drawn out low heat sessions as the herb dries into a brittle/crumble consistency throughout the session and the cannabinoids' home ( bud structure) is cooked to brittle... eventually they will fall away to get pulled into the air driven heat stream as other lower heat vulnerable compounds also pull away from their home... generally, all compounds form a mass in the middle of the herb chamber to form a clump of sorts and the release of low heat compounds can bump into high heat compounds to bump them off too... it just takes more time...

 

[Little Bill]

^ if I could like your post a thousand times @MoltenTiger I would! Great post!

High heat phyto-cannabinoids that get released @ over 400 degrees can also release with longer slow drawn out low heat sessions as the herb dries into a brittle/crumble consistency throughout the session and the cannabinoids' home ( bud structure) is cooked to brittle... eventually they will fall away to get pulled into the air driven heat stream as other lower heat vulnerable compounds also pull away from their home... generally, all compounds form a mass in the middle of the herb chamber to form a clump of sorts and the release of low heat compounds can bump into high heat compounds to bump them off too... it just takes more time...

@C No Ego that may explain something I have noticed. After many draws at 365f the flavor eventually gives out and the vapor seems to become more like smoke. Smokey look and taste and it just keeps on coming. I feel like it is more smoke than vapor. The ABV comes out a very dark brown. So even at lower temperatures I get all the goodies from my flowers? This happens with the Crafty and even more so with the Solo 2.

 

[invertedisdead]

When I hit concentrate on my pen, the strongest hits are the tasty terpene enriched ones (more synergism), I find once the terpenes are gone, the residual hits are also much weaker in effect and intensity.

And continuing to vaporize herb which has lost its flavor is more of a prohibition era mentality based on supply and pseudo-legality. If you were eating a melon and got halfway through and the flavor was gone you'd probably just toss it. We just don't do this with our herbs because they aren't 3 pounds for $1.00 (yet)

 

[Flower of empathy]

When you think about perfume production, extraction of essential oils can be very tricky some boil at 60C and start oxydizing at 70C. So a slow low temp start will extract more compounds in its pure original form but no visible vapour. With higher temps u will still get some of the desired original compounds, but most of it will react to a different form, guess thats what makes also the difference between vapes.
But it also varies with every strain and its sometimes uniqe compounds - in the book Hashish by RC Clarke there is a nice table over 4 pages with compounds and some boiling points, altough many temps are missing(lowest here would be 102C), it's the most complete list i konw of - anybody got something better? (from a scientific scource, not some copy of a copy without a scource)
Btw that book is back from 98! and still better than the most from today - there is even a part about vaping the tilt was state of the art that days, and some crazy engineer named storz was still fooling around with hairdryers in his garage and maybe even got inspired by this book...

 

[C No Ego]

@C No Ego that may explain something I have noticed. After many draws at 365f the flavor eventually gives out and the vapor seems to become more like smoke. Smokey look and taste and it just keeps on coming. I feel like it is more smoke than vapor. The ABV comes out a very dark brown. So even at lower temperatures I get all the goodies from my flowers? This happens with the Crafty and even more so with the Solo 2.

smoke though needs over a certain heat to ignite... if you ignite fire in your vape you will know it no doubt... it is a world apart from vapor... you are producing vapor just a more cooked down version after all the sensitive terps have melted and been inhaled... eventually at low heat with enough air driven over the matter ( plant matter), it will turn to dust though as you described..

When you think about perfume production, extraction of essential oils can be very tricky some boil at 60C and start oxydizing at 70C. So a slow low temp start will extract more compounds in its pure original form but no visible vapour. With higher temps u will still get some of the desired original compounds, but most of it will react to a different form, guess thats what makes also the difference between vapes.
But it also varies with every strain and its sometimes uniqe compounds - in the book Hashish by RC Clarke there is a nice table over 4 pages with compounds and some boiling points, altough many temps are missing(lowest here would be 102C), it's the most complete list i konw of - anybody got something better? (from a scientific scource, not some copy of a copy without a scource)
Btw that book is back from 98! and still better than the most from today - there is even a part about vaping the tilt was state of the art that days, and some crazy engineer named storz was still fooling around with hairdryers in his garage and maybe even got inspired by this book...

another unbeknownst to add to the mix.... any compound we assimilate and absorb becomes multiple sub compounds thereafter... so thc alone could be 14 different sub compounds ( example??) after we absorb and assimilate thc.... we could be talking thousands of assimilated sub compounds just from a few main phyto-cannabinoid structures being ingested as we biologically achieve homeostasis with those building blocks from a nature source

 

[Little Bill]

smoke though needs over a certain heat to ignite... if you ignite fire in your vape you will know it no doubt... it is a world apart from vapor... you are producing vapor just a more cooked down version after all the sensitive terps have melted and been inhaled... eventually at low heat with enough air driven over the matter ( plant matter), it will turn to dust though as you described..

Thank you @C No Ego for setting my concern to rest that it's not combustion. Sure tastes and looks like smoke. I have had flavorful results by stepping from 166c to 180c to 190c with my Solo 2.

 

[C No Ego]

Thank you @C No Ego for setting my concern to rest that it's not combustion. Sure tastes and looks like smoke. I have had flavorful results by stepping from 166c to 180c to 190c with my Solo 2.

NP , with all the chemical reaction/excitement occurring during the "purposefully directed heated air event" many changes are happening so toxic by products could still result during the "furthest from equilibrium" phase change @ the hottest point etc.... once it's cooked down I'm sure some toxins occur...

edit. I go as high as possible.. pun.. with the temp for full body relief so know about those higher temps effects etc... a bubbler becomes a necessity after 400 degrees F.. I usually use the bubbler when the initial flavor wears off starting the session