NuclearAlchemist
Well-Known Member
Pappy said:
No more than a regular screen alone. The glass screen in placed in the hole, and the metal screen is over it. The metal screens tend to bow a bit anyhow, so they fit fine over the glass bit.
-NA
How to improve the performance of the Extreme.
- Thread starter Kris38
- Start date
No more than a regular screen alone. The glass screen in placed in the hole, and the metal screen is over it. The metal screens tend to bow a bit anyhow, so they fit fine over the glass bit.
-NA
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
Kris,
You rock.
Tried this with 2 screens (one under and one above).
Amazing results (even 'cyclone' motion throughout all of the herbs instead of a ring of motionless herbs where the lip that holds the screen is).
A spool of stainless steel wire can take the place of paperclips for those interested.
You rock.
Tried this with 2 screens (one under and one above).
Amazing results (even 'cyclone' motion throughout all of the herbs instead of a ring of motionless herbs where the lip that holds the screen is).
A spool of stainless steel wire can take the place of paperclips for those interested.
Hi Guys. Thanks for the feedback. I am so pleased to hear you are getting great results with it. One other thing I thought I would mention which may affect the improvement is that the size of the hole in the bowls can vary from bowl to bowl, so always pick which ever one has the largest hole as I would guess it would make a difference. This photo shows the difference in the hole size between my two bowls:
2Supra4U
Well-Known Member
Are those bowls from the same package? IE you got both in the same box or did you break one and buy a new one??
Seems kinda weird that there would be that big a difference
although the one on the right looks liek the inner circle was taken or cut out....maybe its just the angle
Seems kinda weird that there would be that big a difference
although the one on the right looks liek the inner circle was taken or cut out....maybe its just the angle
2Supra4U said:
The bowl on the left came from my neighbours new Extreme Q he bought 2 weeks ago which he gave me as a replacement for a bowl of mine he broke when he was borrowing my Extreme several weeks before. The one on the right is slightly chipped around the ring because my first attempt at getting a more even coverage of the heat around the screen involved seeing if I could make the hole bigger using a cylindrical file. I abandoned the idea immediately when I saw that it was chipping the glass, hence I decided on finding a way to raise the screen instead. The hole as you see it is the size it was when I bought it, albeit with a couple of chips around it.
finchrock24
Proud MMJ Patient
I also just gave 'elevating the screen' a whirl...I didn't use any type of clip or wire, my screen just friction fit in the bowl so it is just 'levitating' in the cyclone bowl. I don't really notice any more 'whirling' action but I do think the hits are a bit better (bigger) but for getting smashed, I'll still use it on my downstem to water pipe setup. So far, nothing I have done with the Q gets bigger, mightier clouds. Although, there are times (like when I am playing BF2) where I don't really have the ability to take that much attention of off something (also like when I'm writing a paper for school) so the whip is handy for that.
Today I took my spare cyclone and pulled the screen out. I pushed it back in slowly to the point you guys have yours set at. I added a small amount, let it warm up and gave it a try. I vaped through a Gear bong filled with water and ice.
I have to say, this works! I probably put in as much as I would for an elbow, maybe even less. Without the elevated screen, I would not have had very good hits. With the elevated screen, it hit my like an elbow does, and for 10 or more pulls!
I didn't really understand this thread until I tried it. I can certainly see now that the product that is not directly over the hole does not vaporize- until you stir it up several times. This is brilliant. Now I just need to find a good way to keep the screen elevated. I kinda like the glass screen idea, or something made of stainless- maybe stainless washers, or a nut?
I have to say, this works! I probably put in as much as I would for an elbow, maybe even less. Without the elevated screen, I would not have had very good hits. With the elevated screen, it hit my like an elbow does, and for 10 or more pulls!
I didn't really understand this thread until I tried it. I can certainly see now that the product that is not directly over the hole does not vaporize- until you stir it up several times. This is brilliant. Now I just need to find a good way to keep the screen elevated. I kinda like the glass screen idea, or something made of stainless- maybe stainless washers, or a nut?
finchrock24
Proud MMJ Patient
Stainless washer might be okay...just have to find one with a pretty big opening so it doesn't restrict airflow OR you could buy a couple and drill them out so you make your own size basically.
Oaksterdamviller
Well-Known Member
Kris you are a mad scientist! I joined this thing just to say thanks for posting this. When i saw the picture the first thought I had was BRILLIANT. You are a true pothead MacGuyver!
Tstat said:
Your best bet would be 1mm thick stainless steel wire. You can find that easily for sale on the net. Otherwise a steel paperclip works perfectly fine. Get a reasonably large sized steel clip, straighten it out with a pair of pliers, then wrap it around a cylindrical object such as a thick pen and shape it like the pictures on my first post. It took me a few tries to get it right, but it fairly simple once you get the hang of it.
Thanks for the all the new feedback. Interestingly enough I have been having email correspondence with Steve from Arizer on this one and apparently, I am completely wrong about the poor design of the bowl.
As some of you may know, I posted a comment on another thread regarding the problems I had been having getting a reply to my emails from Arizer. Well one of the emails in question included the information I posted on this thread. After someone tipped off Arizer that I had posted here, Arizer got in touch with me and to their credit, sorted things out very quickly and in fact send me a replacement machine as soon as I gave them tracking proof that I had sent the other one back to them. I also got an email from Steve apologising for not replying, stating that my email was forwarded to him but that he hadn't read it other than to take a quick look at the attached photos and hence missed the fact that the first part was explaining that I was having problems with my machine. I then sent him an email back stating the problems I had found with the design on the bowl and a few days later, I got a rather lengthy response stating that they had conducted testing based on my comments which concluded that there are no issues with the design of the bowl and in fact states the following:
Obviously my modification didn't show any improvements, after all you cannot improve on perfection and his email demonstrated the great lengths he had gone to in order to show just how wrong I was. I was gobsmacked by his response, because everyone who used my machine has had to constantly stir the herbs due to uneven cooking and many others are saying it on here too. Does anyone else have anything they want to add to this?
As some of you may know, I posted a comment on another thread regarding the problems I had been having getting a reply to my emails from Arizer. Well one of the emails in question included the information I posted on this thread. After someone tipped off Arizer that I had posted here, Arizer got in touch with me and to their credit, sorted things out very quickly and in fact send me a replacement machine as soon as I gave them tracking proof that I had sent the other one back to them. I also got an email from Steve apologising for not replying, stating that my email was forwarded to him but that he hadn't read it other than to take a quick look at the attached photos and hence missed the fact that the first part was explaining that I was having problems with my machine. I then sent him an email back stating the problems I had found with the design on the bowl and a few days later, I got a rather lengthy response stating that they had conducted testing based on my comments which concluded that there are no issues with the design of the bowl and in fact states the following:
Obviously my modification didn't show any improvements, after all you cannot improve on perfection and his email demonstrated the great lengths he had gone to in order to show just how wrong I was. I was gobsmacked by his response, because everyone who used my machine has had to constantly stir the herbs due to uneven cooking and many others are saying it on here too. Does anyone else have anything they want to add to this?
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
I don't find that the cyclone design really cooks herbs unevenly.
Rather, that it causes some of the herbs to get stuck around the rim against the hot glass (where they are not directly in the airpath, even with the turbulence described by Steve), causing the hot air to have less contact with the herbs. This makes the draws notably thinner when using a small amount of herbs in the cyclone bowl IME (which seems to explain the notable difference when using the elbow pack method recommended by Steve, himself IIRC).
Overall, I feel that the design of the cyclone bowl is an excellent one (the way the hot air travels up through the herbs causing them to stir, the way the dome screen and the elbow both create turbulence and encourage the collection of particles that may get through the screen in the elbow itself, durability, manufacturing/purchase cost, ease-of-use/cleaning/refilling, black silicone to keep it cool for removal, etc.)
Nonetheless, with a small amount of herbs in the cyclone bowl, I notice that my draws seem thicker with a slightly elevated screen and that all of the herbs seem to jump around (rather than a small amount getting stuck around the rim against the hot glass). Additionally, the extra screen helps prevent any particles that would possibly fall through the screen and onto the heating element.
In conclusion, I don't feel that there is anything particularly "wrong" with the design of the cyclone bowl, but the elevated extra screen does seem to help improve the performance of the unit when using small amounts in the cyclone bowl itself (IME).
Maybe a rephrasing would help Steve understand better, or maybe he doesn't need to understand (as it is an easy mod and the elbow pack he, now, recommends also addresses this issue)?
I am sure that he could sell "cyclone bowl shrinkers" (which would simply be a bent piece of stainless steel wire) for $6 a pop, while not even having to recognize any performance difference. To each their own, though.
PS: I don't fill bags and my two screens are elevated by a layer of glass beads.
Rather, that it causes some of the herbs to get stuck around the rim against the hot glass (where they are not directly in the airpath, even with the turbulence described by Steve), causing the hot air to have less contact with the herbs. This makes the draws notably thinner when using a small amount of herbs in the cyclone bowl IME (which seems to explain the notable difference when using the elbow pack method recommended by Steve, himself IIRC).
Overall, I feel that the design of the cyclone bowl is an excellent one (the way the hot air travels up through the herbs causing them to stir, the way the dome screen and the elbow both create turbulence and encourage the collection of particles that may get through the screen in the elbow itself, durability, manufacturing/purchase cost, ease-of-use/cleaning/refilling, black silicone to keep it cool for removal, etc.)
Nonetheless, with a small amount of herbs in the cyclone bowl, I notice that my draws seem thicker with a slightly elevated screen and that all of the herbs seem to jump around (rather than a small amount getting stuck around the rim against the hot glass). Additionally, the extra screen helps prevent any particles that would possibly fall through the screen and onto the heating element.
In conclusion, I don't feel that there is anything particularly "wrong" with the design of the cyclone bowl, but the elevated extra screen does seem to help improve the performance of the unit when using small amounts in the cyclone bowl itself (IME).
Maybe a rephrasing would help Steve understand better, or maybe he doesn't need to understand (as it is an easy mod and the elbow pack he, now, recommends also addresses this issue)?
I am sure that he could sell "cyclone bowl shrinkers" (which would simply be a bent piece of stainless steel wire) for $6 a pop, while not even having to recognize any performance difference. To each their own, though.
PS: I don't fill bags and my two screens are elevated by a layer of glass beads.
Progress said:
I think no two people with ever have the same experience because there are too many variables such as the type of herb used, how finely it was ground up, fan speed, size of the hole in the bowl ect. I am also guessing that as these tests were probably conducted in the Arizer lab, that legal herbs were used and many legal herbs do not vaporize as well as good skunk week. Another thing with skunk weed is that the cooked weed browns quite markedly so it is much easier to see how evenly it has cooked, hence I could easily see how evenly my weed was cooking. I am one of those people who use a small amount of herbs, so obviously I am going to see a difference, but I don't understand why, instead of trying to get the air to cycle back through the bowl, they didn't just design it in a way that ensures the even covering of heat to the screen in the first place. I do notice an extremely uneven cooking of the weed, especially when using a herb bowl that has a smaller hole like the left hand bowl I posted in the picture above.
I don't really know anything about the elbow pack method although am a little curious as to what it is and why Steve recommends this if he sees no issue with the herb bowl as it is. Also, the beads method you mention sounds like a rather good idea and possibly may get better results than my method as I could see (hypothetically at least) how this may distribute the air more evenly throughout the screen. Could you explain what the elbow pack method is and what your exact method with the glass beads was?
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
Kris,
In general, the elbow pack is stuffing the dome screen instead of filling the cyclone (for more info search the term "elbow pack" set the search to "posts" and read some of the oldest posts that discuss the elbow pack).
Also, in general, I place a screen in the bottom of the bowl, sprinkle a layer of tiny glass beads, and place another screen on top of that one (this screen tends to bulge down in the center). For more info about the glass beads (aka seed beads) just search for "glass beads", change the setting to "posts" and look for a thread I started regarding using seed beads for diffusion (it has pics, links, and descriptions). I also wish that thread saw some more action, as I feel that seed bead diffusion is virtually unmatched (in both cost and performance).
PS: Do you preheat the cyclone bowl until it is too hot to hold by the glass before adding the herbs (if not that could explain some of the uneven heating)? As you said, there are many factors.
In general, the elbow pack is stuffing the dome screen instead of filling the cyclone (for more info search the term "elbow pack" set the search to "posts" and read some of the oldest posts that discuss the elbow pack).
Also, in general, I place a screen in the bottom of the bowl, sprinkle a layer of tiny glass beads, and place another screen on top of that one (this screen tends to bulge down in the center). For more info about the glass beads (aka seed beads) just search for "glass beads", change the setting to "posts" and look for a thread I started regarding using seed beads for diffusion (it has pics, links, and descriptions). I also wish that thread saw some more action, as I feel that seed bead diffusion is virtually unmatched (in both cost and performance).
PS: Do you preheat the cyclone bowl until it is too hot to hold by the glass before adding the herbs (if not that could explain some of the uneven heating)? As you said, there are many factors.
Progress said:
This does sound like a very impressive idea. Am about to order some seed beads to try it. What size beads did you use? The smallest I could find are 4mm, would something like this be ok? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Approx-100g-P...396?pt=UK_Crafts_Beads_CA&hash=item4aa64bec14
DeepFried said:
Yes I wondered about that myself, but just done another search on EBay and came across these clear glass 2mm beads, so I would guess these would be ok: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-0-CLEAR-GL...297?pt=UK_Crafts_Beads_CA&hash=item230aa372e1
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
It is hard for me to find, cut, and paste links; but I recall that there is a size chart and cleaning recommendations in the glass-beads-for-diffusion thread I once created.
Feel free to post any questions about beads there (as some of this has already been covered and some of this does not necessarily apply to increasing the performance of the extreme-even though it can greatly increase the performance of your Extreme's water tools). I will even find the thread and post some more info I just realized was not discussed.
Feel free to post any questions about beads there (as some of this has already been covered and some of this does not necessarily apply to increasing the performance of the extreme-even though it can greatly increase the performance of your Extreme's water tools). I will even find the thread and post some more info I just realized was not discussed.
