How safe is aluminum in vapes really?

[Stu]

I don't see a peer-reviewed study on aluminum heatexchangers in vapes.

I don't see a peer-reviewed study on any material used in heat exchangers in vaporizers. Do you think that's going to keep me from vaporizing?

I fear that we are speculating about potential hazards that are not based on the empirical evidence that we have as a collective community. If there is evidence that aluminum has been shown to be harmful when used in a vaporizer, I'll be the first to heed the warning. Until then, I'll continue to use my vapes to alleviate stress, not add to it.

 

[Buildozer]

I understand people's predetermined concern w/ aluminum, there isn't definitive enough info as it applies to our uses.. As far as off-gassing, I'm not set against being convinced it's an issue in this application, I'm just not too convinced about it so far..

I initially had concerns of possible metal flakes w/ the S3, due to the rattle mine came w/, but never saw any evidence in practice, so I feel safe not worrying after all this time.. I been using mine heavily for about a half year now and have never seen it produce any metal dust from the way I use it, but I also don't give it any reason to make any.... IMO the 1 or 2 people who got those metal flakes very likely caused it by the way they used it.. If that's the case (which I'm pretty certain it is), then the vape can't really be blamed.. no more than I can blame a bong for cutting me after breaking due to careless use.. but if that was the case, should I be determined to fear bongs?

I can already see the stuff I previously mentioned and speculated about, concerning the metal flakes, being blown out of proportion and used as fear arguments against this vape in future threads by people who have never used it... c'est la vie




EDIT:

Reality: During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer’s. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer’s. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat.

 

[natural farmer]

I will certainly try and have a little talk with Dave on the matter of rattling but won't bother him with the dust I think.
I'll keep an eye for any if I end up getting a Supreme of course.... I would feel better though if the heating block was made from copper and the rest of the vape was SS. It would look tits as well!

 

[Tranquility]

I get the argument of "you deal with toxins everywhere else". But I'm not actively inhaling concentrated city pollution for 30 minutes every day. I am inhaling through my vape for 30 minutes every day.

Your food, your clothing, your water and your air all have "toxins" in them and you are being dosed. It is said all people have DDT, Teflon, and any of a number of flame retardants we add to consumer goods are already at detectable levels.

Even the use of marijuana may have risks. We focus on death from marijuana, but there are other potential risks too. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...brain-including-Alzheimer-s-danger-zones.html ) The study is poorly described. To me, it seems like it was studying something else and they used the data set to look at cannabis users. The problem is, in the 1000 users they studied, 100% had something that might be a problem. A HUGE problem. 100%.

I understand risk reduction and do not quibble with those who make a personal choice to do or not do a thing because they think it safe or dangerous. It is certainly wise to not take risks without an appropriate reward--no matter how that reward is defined. But, we are all going to die. We are all going to get sick.

Using marijuana is a risk. How we use it may also be a risk. We don't know and there will probably not be enough "studies" to prove things up before we die. Even if they do, I guarantee there will be another risk to immediately consider where we will not have adequate facts to assess risk.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i saw that news item - all the people in the study had "cannabis use disorder" - so i find it hard to understand how to relate the findings to other users.

while i agree we are all going to die, we don't have to get sick.

 

[Buildozer]

while i agree we are all going to die, we don't have to get sick.

Sick from what exactly? My money's on Unfounded Fears!?

I don't know about you all, but sometimes I get brave and leave the house w/o my bubble on!
The hypochondriacs lose their shit when they see me stroll out like that!

I feel like it's mostly fear for the sake of it, in here.. I'm trying to entertain anything reasonable, but all I see is unfounded fear w/ intent to spread...

 

[Hippie Dickie]

well, i wasn't addressing fears about Aluminum specifically, just the statement that we get dead and get sick ... it's all mental, anyway.

 

[Buildozer]

well, i wasn't addressing fears about Aluminum specifically, just the statement that we get dead and get sick ... it's all mental, anyway.

Just teasing and whipping a little bit.....
Still, Many people live lives dictated by questionable fears, and that's fine w/ me, but it bothers me when I feel people are trying to spread that POV w/o good enough reason.. I'm not accusing you, just saying.. and although I quoted you, that post wasn't so much directed at you as it was at this whole discussion.

 

[grokit]

I'm chronically ill from "standard of care" medical errors, the main one being that I have an untreatable source of highly-corrosive free radicals installed inside of me; any attempt to remove it may kill me.

Because of this, I have to avoid as many other/external toxins as I possibly can

 

[Baron23]

I'm chronically ill from "standard of care" medical errors, the main one being that I have an untreatable source of highly-corrosive free radicals installed inside of me; any attempt to remove it may kill me.

Because of this, I have to avoid as many other/external toxins as I possibly can

And a very good point you make. People with chronic illness can often not tolerate stresses that others can just shrug off.

 

[nomadicsoul34]

My understanding is that aluminium is the world s 3rd most abundant mineral*. Its in deoderants, our soil , drinking water and many other things. The link to degenerative brain disorders is inconclusive. There are other factors that play a much larger role such education , sociability and brain stimulation but the number one factor is genetics.
I smoked a lot of tin foil bongs as a youth so the link did worry me but im not overly concerned after digging around on the internet for a while.

 

[anasrzi]

Being a owner and very happy user of the supreme v3 I've read thru this thread and have still drawn the conclusion that the aluminium used is pretty safe overall, been using mine getting on for six months and I'm still in love with it entirely.

Decided to dust off the Dabbie to hit some oil over the weekend, did the job but I swear I get higher on the supreme with herb over a nail with rosin? So I tried for the second time to do oils inside the supreme, used cotton wool, then add oil, then add a bit more cotton wool, heated to 160c as I do with herb and it gave me some amazing vapours, so so tasty and not at all irritating.

I'd be more worried from the silicone used on the supreme than the heating block and it's potential metal flakes, surely hitting it thru water like many do will further filter out any particles that might get thru, stressing the word might.

 

[vapirtoo]

I agree with Anasazi and have had mine for the same length of time. As I have stated before, I have never seen any flakes or dust with my Supreme.
My main concern is nano vapor aluminum molecules entering my lungs.
I know there will never be any empirical evidence until we bring the Supreme to a lab and run it through some kind of test.
Until that time I will be using my Supreme only on the weekends.
I just cannot get over how powerful this vape is.

 

[biohacker]

I had tonnes of aluminum dust right underneath the silicone from the aluminum on aluminum friction. Perhaps my bowls were cut too crudely but even after cleaning, it would return. Not much of a concern as I always used it with a glass piece and no real chance of anything entering the bowl.

I miss my Supreme! Even if there are subatomic nano particles or whatever, it's worth it!

 

[anasrzi]

I had tonnes of aluminum dust right underneath the silicone from the aluminum on aluminum friction. Perhaps my bowls were cut too crudely but even after cleaning, it would return. Not much of a concern as I always used it with a glass piece and no real chance of anything entering the bowl.

I miss my Supreme! Even if there are subatomic nano particles or whatever, it's worth it!

You see I cleaned mine the other day top to bottom and not a hint of dust at all? didn't even discolour the cotton bud I was using, sounds like the more crude cut bowl might be at fault there as I get literally nothing visual in that inner tube.

The herb tubes get a darn sight more gunked up however and need a good ISO scrub to keep them fresh and clean, one of life's chores but I sort of enjoy it in a weird way

 

[biohacker]

My bowls were very crudely cut....sharp in fact.

 

[seaofgreens]

This is an interesting idea to be sure. I want that to be clear.

But this topic was created off someone who just had a feeling about his reaction to a vaporizer. The person also has an allergy to cannabis. The person also bases his feelings off seeing a chiropractor and very questionable testing methods. Now here we are with a potential customer offput by said potential mis-information.

i mean, next we will be seeing that CNN accidentally put on 30 minutes of trans porn:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-25/cnn-accidentally-airs-30-minutes-hard-core-transsexual-porn

Oh but wait, they didn't...:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/did-...iring-30-minutes-of-hardcore-porn-last-night/

Lets be interested in the possibility that there is something harmful occuring, and be willing to read and act upon facts. But maybe it is a bit silly to jump before looking is all I want to add.

 

[lazylathe]

IME with the S3:

The only aluminum dust was caused by insertion and removal of the herb tube, this was brought on by the friction fit with the silicone tip.

This is the only part that ever got slightly black in color, this is the only part I have ever seen this happen.
What is could also be is the surface layer of oxidization that will form on the tubes surface and will be rubbed off by the silicone tip.

My heat exchanger is perfectly smooth and shiny as it was on the day it arrived. No sign of any change in the surface!

I have zero issues using my S3 daily.

It is good to remember that we have been told what metal is used in the S3 and the Volcano, extremely high heat resistant to 1000's of degrees hotter than we vape at.

 

[btka]

I don't know whether it already was a theme but what's about health hazard when inhaling air through heated aluminium. Could it be a problem?

The pure handle is looking very uncomfortably and not pretty nice. Did anybody try to make a wrap out of leather or paracord for it? I would do so if I would have a Sup 3 (VAS is growing!).
There are a lot of nice possibilities and the handle will afterwards lie much better in your hand. Look for 'paracord' and 'wrap' at youtube. Many nice designs. Make your own "Supreme Katana"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-confirm-metal-devastating-brain-disease.html

I am not a fan of aluminium.. I also did not l6ke the e-nano usIng aluminium.. I am no expert but have heard often that aluminium could be a reason for alzheimer...

 

[Hogni]

But you have to be exposed to alu dust and/or alu vapour which only developes at much higher temps than you are working with by using the Supreme 3. After all I've read about this issue I don't believe that the Supreme has such effects.

 

[Alexis]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-confirm-metal-devastating-brain-disease.html

I am not a fan of aluminium.. I also did not l6ke the e-nano usIng aluminium.. I am no expert but have heard often that aluminium could be a reason for alzheimer...

I dont think it is all quite so clear cut. It will depend a lot on the specific type of aluminium and how it is used.
For example, cooking with tin foil, actually touching the food while hot is not good. At room temp, food contact with aluminium is fine.
Tin foil is certainly not designed for the same high temps that the medical grade material Ed uses in the Supreme.

I do definitely agree that aluminum is contributing to Alzheimers. So are very many other poisons that are deliberately sneaked into our food and water supply, air, environment etc etc.

And if you believe in chemtrails, then there is arguably by far the worst onslaught and form of alumium. The evidence is there of thousands fold more alumium in US soil and rainwater than 15 years ago.

I really wish I could say for absolute definite that the Supreme's aluminium is entirely fit for purpose with zero harmful effects, short or long term.
The truth is nobody really knows for sure. I fully trust Ed G that he is solidly convinced of its safety, and has referred to some measurements at hih temp showing no offgassing I think (like much, much higher than you would ever reach with the Supreme).

This is ironic me saying this, as I am the world's only reported case of actually having experienced an instant adverse reaction to the materials of the Supreme. It was a severe allergy reaction, but this happens to me all the time with so many substances that nobody else seems to have issue with.

So even though I had that bad reaction myself, it does not mean that the alumium is bad per se. It might be in some way, but I really hope not. Its so much better when things dont have a downside.

Im sorry folks, I tried to contribute, I thought I had a valid point that never really got formulated or got lost on the way. Stonedness and excess tired I blame.

 

[btka]

@Hogni

Ask @Alexis But seriously, this has been in this thread. But AFAIK, it's a non-issue and not a health hazard whatsoever. At least I personally, have not noticed any negative effects whatsoever. I do have some very minor slight concerns about the aluminum dust i've seen at the silicone sleeve, as well as when I blow to clean the heat exchanger out. Doesn't really concern me though.

do not know but aluminium dust does not sound good to me... you do not have to inhale aluminium fume (offgasing)...

also I am no big fan of tests,saying there is no offgasing... maybe the machines are not able to capture the amount of offgasing... (an anecdote... red bull cola contains coca extracts.... german goverment was not able to find traces of cocain alcoloid atbfirst ... but then they got better machines and aremable to find this alcoloids)....

maybe @Alexis is more sensible and therefore reacted allergic...

also fc memebers that know me are aware that I am very concerned about health and vaporizers maybe to much...
but as the fc community is like an "online " family (friends) I want to inform them.... and I am aboslutly no expert...
but know there are controversial discussions regarding aluminium and health especially alzheimer so I wanted tommention this...

is not there a posibilty to use ss or ti orsomething else...

 

[Hogni]

Yeah, a heating element out of Ti would be nice. But how much would that increase costs? Up to $ 250?

Aside of this I would always use the S 3 with a water tool for filtering out vapour by eventually existing alu dust..

 

[biohacker]

is not there a posibilty to use ss or ti orsomething else...

This is an excellent question!!! I wonder how/if it would change things...

The aluminum dust isn't inhaled...it's just from the friction of the bowl, and takes a while for it to accumulate enough for it to bother me enough to swab it with a q-tip. Non issue really...do I like it? No, but I tolerate it and don't think it affects my health negatively whatsoever.

I'm more concerned about the massive influx of phytocannabinoids (and whatever else hitched a ride chemically) to my brain disrupting homeostasis...... I have much larger fish to fry than the safety of my favourite vaporization device, when its safety is already IMO established.

Yeah, a heating element out of Ti would be nice. But how much would that increase costs? Up to $ 250?

Worth it! Or at least it would be nice to have the "option".

Aside of this I would always use the S 3 with a water tool for filtering out vapour by eventually existing alu dust..

I'd be more concerned about heavy metals or fertilizers in the plant than the Supreme.

 

[btka]

Oops, reported.

was thinking of purchasing a supreme after @biohacker mentioned and praised it... but then I saw @Hogni concerns about aluminium... to be honest I even did not know aluminium is used for supreme..