How do you judge the efficiency of a vape?

[pngwyn]

Just wondering how you can judge the efficiency of vaping with different vaporizers? If you load a bowl and vape it until it's brown, regardless of which vape wouldn't it be essentially the same efficiency? Seems you would have taken in the same exact amount of vapor in any situation?

I'm probably mistaken, any insight would be appreciated.

I read a thread comparing Volcano Vape to Purple Days and the guy said that he only had to use 1/2 the MJ for the same effect, and I'm just wondering if and how it's possible. If the PD can really double my stash's life span then it might be worth it as a solo vape.. but I just have a hard time understanding how it would be able to do that... and up until now I have thought it would be a waste to have more than 1 vape (I consider my mflb a portable).

 

[weedemon]

i agree with you that they are both achieving the same level of vaporization if the colour of your herbs are the same, but one thing to consider is the size or volume of the hit you take. your lungs can only absorb so much, and when you exhale if you see vapor coming out that is "wasted vapor" (big clouds are fun don't get me wrong.. ) but if you are trying to be efficient then you are also going to want to take more manageable smaller hits.

and for this reason some vapes lean towards giving small er hit than other... log vape vs a whip for example.

I would say what he was saying is possible because if you exhale half the vapor into the air and don't use it to get high. then the more efficient vape will get you there for less herb spent.


to bust it into numbers. lets say you put a .5 g of herb into your volcano. you are taking monster rips and ehxaling big clouds. now lets say 20% of that vapor is exhaled into the air. that's a .1 of herb that you vaporized and basically donated to the room. does that make sense?

 

[pngwyn]

It does make sense in theory.. but when applied it doesn't.

If you are considering how much you are wasting, log vapes will dish out vapor at a much more dense air to vapor ratio as far as I have read. Wouldn't this mean that when you exhale you are bound to have more dense vapor coming out than with a Volcano bag?

However, the theory doesn't work for either vape if you consider the fact you can control how big of hits you take on either vaporizer and essentially not have any "wasted vapor" coming out. Right? It seems becomes a discussion of how you use your vape efficiently instead of what vape is most efficient.

 

[lwien]

I read a thread comparing Volcano Vape to Purple Days and the guy said that he only had to use 1/2 the MJ for the same effect, and I'm just wondering if and how it's possible.

That guy be me..........

 

[pngwyn]

I was actually talking about this post in specific: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=4581

Ooh I was talking to you on GC too.. I pm'ed you on there I wanna see that vid you have up on youtube~!! Also do you have any insight on the OP?

 

[lwien]

Also do you have any insight on the OP?

Yeah, but I'm kinda talked out. The other guys will no doubt chime in though.

Gonna call it night...........latah.......

 

[WatTyler]

It seems becomes a discussion of how you use your vape efficiently instead of what vape is most efficient.

I agree with this 100%.

The misuse of the word efficiency bugs me for some reason, but I need to get over it Really we're dealing with lots of variables, including physiology and most significantly human behaviour, and not the simple inut material relationship which is efficiency.

The main vapes which get acknowledged as the more 'efficient' I think are just restricted to 'slow mode' and there's not the same potential for a user to get carried away with excessive vapor volumes or bud quantities, but that's not to say these characteristics can't be replicated with other vapes used carefully. I honestly believe..."There is no best 'most efficient' vape"

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i think of efficiency as the % of THC extracted from the starting material - per session. That is, does the ABV have any THC left in it? This is a non-subjective measurement.

So this could be affected by:
(1) temperature stability
(2) all trichomes reaching the vaporization temperature
(3) all trichomes being exposed to the extracting air flow
(4) delivery system (bag, whip, bong, tube) - exposed surface area and time of transit.

It seems to me that the different geometries and heater designs can change all of these variables. How much vapor gets extracted and how much of the vapor gets delivered to the lungs.

 

[nicelytoasted]

I believe that Hippie Dickies explanation above was bang on.

I would add that the flow design can be as essential as temperature design/stability, as far as getting all the trichomes out of the herb, and has been virtually unexplored in most vapourizers, imo.

If you diffused the air flow just before the herb and increased the turbulence, you will hit the herb from all sides and penetrate it much more efficiently. This is the method the Herbalaire employs to drain the herb as well as it does, even without grinding.

 

[lwien]

Efficiency can have a few different meanings. When I was addressing the efficiency of the Purple Days as compared to the 'Cano, I was referring to the ability of a vape to provide our "high" while using the least amount of bud.

When I went from my Zephyr Ion or my Budda to my PD, my consumption was cut in half and here, I believe are the following reasons why:

With a bag vape, there is more surface area for condensation to build up.......IE, wasted THC. With whips, one can typically harvest this residual, but with bags, it's a whole other story. The stems on a PD is MUCH shorter with much less surface area for that condensation to take place, ie, less wasted vapor.

Unless one uses a VaporBros mini-whip with their whip based vape, the bowls of both whip and bag vapes are a lot larger than the bowl of a PD. Typically, one cannot even cover the screen of other vapes with one full PD bowl. This causes two things to happen. One, is that if you try and just use a PD's bowl amount in a much larger bowl without covering the screen, what typically happens is that the air to vapor ratio goes sky high, so the hits are MUCH less satisfying. Secondly, it is just human nature NOT to fill a large bowl with such a small amount. It's kind of like trying to feather the throttle on a Ferrari to save gas. With my PD, I'd fill a stem which holds MUCH less than my Buddha or Ion and I'd find that one stem would do me just fine. With the Buddha, there were times that I got higher than I really wanted to while it also produced volumes of vapor which was then exhaled............ie...wasted vapor. And with the Ion, there were times that I just didn't want to finish the bag.........ie......wasted vapor.

Now some may site the fixed temp of a PD allows it to be more efficient, but my PD runs in the upper vape ranges, I'd say around 380 to 385 from the looks of the ABV. Not quite sure how that factors in though.

All I can really relay is my personal experience which is that I my consumption was cut in half went from smoking (bongs and joints) to a VaporGenie. When I went from a VaporGenie to a Buddha or my Ion, my consumption remained the same, but when I went from those to the PD, it was cut in half again.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i would term that "effectiveness", since you are describing the effect on you -- a subjective measure.

 

[lwien]

i would term that "effectiveness", since you are describing the effect on you -- a subjective measure.

Good point. Maybe that is a better word to use. Hmmmm......

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Yeah vaporizers make you so high that it is almost impossible to judge which is better.. I love to get monster rips with my mw... and exhaling fat clouds.. and getting vaked as a mofo in seconds.. I love to suck slowly my hand attachment on low temp for long sessions.. and when the herb is eco friendly .
Low temp whip vaping on my dbv was fine too ... although no matter how low is the temp it could not extract all without a burnt taste like MW does.. It depends if you're going high the short or the long way ..

 

[WatTyler]

i would term that "effectiveness", since you are describing the effect on you -- a subjective measure.

I concur.

But there's the extra factor of time to include. HippieDickie narrowed it down to per session, which is fair enough. I would suggest that over a long enough session, with stirring, most half decent vaporizers could achieve a total extraction, and therefore by one definition, total efficiency.

It maybe needs to be considered alongside volume of air moved as well, which is kind of independent of time spent- in as much as that no matter how fast we move any volume of air through the load there's still seems to be a minimum time (maximum rate) taken to vaporize the compounds (whilst remaining at sub-combustion temperatures).

 

[lwien]

Yeah vaporizers make you so high that it is almost impossible to judge which is better.

I don't think we're talking about which vaporizer is better here. I was just talking about which vaporizer got me to the same high using a less amount of bud.

Is getting high quicker using more bud, better, or is getting to the same high slower using less bud, better? That is a total user preference and in that light, neither is better than the other.

 

[pngwyn]

How exactly do you quantify your highness level though? In the end it amounts to what you are taking in and how much of it, which seems to depend completely on the amount of substance used, still.

So this could be affected by:
(1) temperature stability
(2) all trichomes reaching the vaporization temperature
(3) all trichomes being exposed to the extracting air flow
(4) delivery system (bag, whip, bong, tube) - exposed surface area and time of transit.

So it's possible that these variables could effect how much higher you are getting per session, but the comparison of which is more effective still seems completely subjective? Who's to say I'm higher than you are? Or I'm definitely higher than I was last night?

And I don't think it's necessarily fair to say the 'cano is inefficient because it has the potential to hold a bigger bowl. You can load as much as you want, simply, I don't see how it has anything to do with human nature. I have discovered you can load very small amounts and still get lucious bags of vapor, from this discovery I have begun loading significantly smaller bowls and still being quite content with my highs.

I do agree with you on the condensation as volcano bags and accessories tend to get quite sticky, but I question exactly how much THC is wasted in this manner, and if it's even significant enough to consider.

Still a skeptic! I would love to hear what other people think about it though..

 

[lwien]

Who's to say I'm higher than you are?

I agree. The only comparison that I have done between different vaporizers is with myself. However, what I also take into consideration is the fact that my experience with trying different vapes and gauging the effectiveness/efficiency out of a given amount of bud from those vapes, mirrors many others here in that their consumption in any one session is a lot less when using a log type vape versus a whip/balloon type vape.

(eating some ABV firecrackers along with sipping a home made cappuccino from beans that was just rosted a few days ago while posting this........yum. PD is just sittin' there all warmed up and lookin' purty just in case I need a bit of a chaser in an hour or two. )

Edit: Man, THAT was quick. Chaser not needed.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

It maybe needs to be considered alongside volume of air moved as well, which is kind of independent of time spent - in as much as that no matter how fast we move any volume of air through the load there's still seems to be a minimum time (maximum rate) taken to vaporize the compounds (whilst remaining at sub-combustion temperatures).

i think this is right -- the trichome needs to open (melt?) to expose the THC goo inside to the air flow. Again, the vape geometry is a contributing factor in terms of extraction speed. i like to think my oven design melts the waxy outer shell of the trichome - but i have no idea what the melting temp of the trichome is.

Certainly, a very loose pack in the bud vial extracts more vapor than a tight pack -- depending on the quality of the meds, there may be lots of trichomes exposed anyway. Then the stirring rearranges and exposes more trichomes. But then the session is too long, too many hits -- seven minutes is about right for me, a dozen or so hits (i always lose count).

i also wonder if it is possible to pull a partial pressure in the bud vial -- vaporization happens at a lower temperature in a vacuum. A glass-on-glass fitting would allow this. i think i am seeing a better extraction rate with only 4 inlet holes instead of 7 -- i want to try only 3 holes next time i have the dremel set up for drilling glass.

How exactly do you quantify your highness level though? In the end it amounts to what you are taking in and how much of it, which seems to depend completely on the amount of substance used, still.

effectiveness is also dependent on the available cannabis receptors -- so for me, small doses spaced appropriately achieve the effect i need.