Holes in the Vap Market

[Progress]

I am glad that this thread still gets some action (as I feel these types of discussions help inform future technological advancements).

I feel that there are many holes in the market (some of them even holes that are possible to fill).

Who here would like to see a catalytic converter powered portable with a PD-sized bowl and a glass heating dish & stem (possibly removable for the option of bowl size and stainless steel vs. glass)? It would be difficult to perfect, but is definitely possible IMO.

 

[standard]

As a fan of all-glass setups, I'd like to see something with a built-in glass screen, along the lines of the Illadelph spoon.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

I'd like to see something like the PD but with adjustable heat. I also like the idea of the MZ with the diffuser on top which makes it look like only an essential oil diffuser. That and their aesthetic appeal (wood grain and artistic).

Basically I'd like to see a PD/MZ hybrid with adjustable heat.

Also, I'd like to see an all clear-glass vaporizer with a water filter built into it, also with an adjustable heat source (not flame). Actually the new vapor genie glass unit is very appealing to me due to being able to see the flame. But it would be more appealing if you could easily add some water filtration to it.

I think one of the main considerations for many vaporists is that the unit pass hazardous materials specs, like the PD. I think that's one of the main reasons why the PD has a 9 week waiting list, because of the inventor's attention to materials used.

Someone who was willing to use safe materials but in an adjustable heat plus water filter design would really have something, I think.

Oh and one more thing I can think of that I would like to see: the ability to change the bowl size or stem size so that one could load a big bowl or stem for a party or use a very small amount for just yourself. One thing that has turned me away from certain vapes is that they seem to require a larger load of herb. To me, it's all about efficiency.

But what do I know?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Moe, how much are you willing to pay for the vape you describe here? Sounds like a $500 product to me.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Moe, how much are you willing to pay for the vape you describe here? Sounds like a $500 product to me.

I would not pay that much. Would it truly cost $320 extra to add an adjustable heating mechanism to a PD or MZ?

Surely a glass water pipe with an adjustable heater would not run $500...?

I have a friend who's an inventor and I'm going to see what ideas he can come up with and then we'll run some cost analyses...

As to having a larger and smaller stem option, there must be a way to do that without too much extra cost... Maybe one fits inside the other or? some kind of adapter.

Well, anyway, those are my ideas... It's up to someone to figure out if they can be executed on a practical basis or not. I think if a company wants to make a lot of money on vapes they have to keep the down around the price of the SSV, maximum. I don't think that many people are going to pay $300 or more for a vape. And I think that using pure materials like the PD does is a big plus in terms of marketing to more people. Even those who aren't health fanatics still like the IDEA that it's healthy, I think.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

okay, sorry ... yeah, an adjustable heating mechanism is just a dimmer switch - very cheap.

These days i always think of controlled temperature, rather than just adjusting the heater. i passed through an adjustable heater phase on the way to my current prototype -- and imho computer temperature control is infinitely better.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

HD, you made your own? For sale, or just for yourself?
Digital temperature control is ideal, yes, but if you know about where 10am or 2pm is on a dial, and how that affects the herb, isn't it about the same thing? Isn't this what the SSV and DBV use - a dial that adjusts it?

 

[bluntfaced]

yeah the way I see it 5-10 degrees here or there is nothing and getting that exact is just needless cost in a budget vape like you're talking about. An analog heat adjust would be dope on a PD style vape would be dope.

PS. there is a thread about Mr. Dickey's vape called the Bud Toaster, try not to get him all riled up about it in here.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

but if you know about where 10am or 2pm is on a dial ... isn't it about the same thing?

i suffered with that philosophy for 7 years. The fundamental problem is one of current flow. And when you start to take a toke, the temperature drops as much as 50F, and then it takes 10 minutes to regain the ideal vape temperature. So if you ride the knob and manually adjust for the temperature drop, it can help.

With a computer controlled heater, the computer detects the start of the temperature drop and pumps more current to the heater to totally counteract the temperature drop. My vape reads the coil temperature 3 times per second and can hold the temperature at the set point regardless of volume of air flow.

Also, most power supplies can't deliver the amps needed to spike the heater when the temperature starts to drop. But the right kind of Li-Poly batteries (i.e. those used in the Tesla electric car) can deliver 70amps on demand.

(riled up??? me???)

 

[dreadlocknot]

Hey All, Long-time reader, first time poster:

I'm looking for feedback on this one, but my biggest concern with the Vape market is the lack of a truly medicinal quality vaporizer. I've had a Volcano Classic for many years, and recently purchased an Extreme-Q and MFLB for a little versatility (OK, so i spoil my lungs )

The Volcano is far and away the most efficient and consistent member of my vaporizer family, but as far as a medical device? I'm just not sure. The Volcano has an air-filter, but the air channel still flows through the unit, over the internal components, and up into the bag. Am I the only person with concerns about 374 degree air moving across wires and metal/plastic parts?

The Extreme-Q is a wonderful little tool, I love to set some fresh cinnamon in the aromatherapy attachment and allow the aromas to fill my kitchen. I've also tried Hops, lavender, and chamomile...and i've been very pleased with the results. However, even MORE SO than the Volcano, I get the overwhelming sense that any laboratory testing would reveal melting plastic/metal byproducts in the vapor.

The variable speed fan is nice...does anyone else like the forced air when they use a whip?

The MFLB is clutch for running around cities and getting a quick vape in now and then, but 1st off, my battery exploded when i left it plugged in too long, and second, I have gotten herbs to heat up and combust several times, and THIRD, if you think about the physics of the heating element, bits of that aluminum element are breaking off from it every time it heats up and entering the vapor stream.

Don't take my word for it: use the MFLB for a couple years and i guarantee the element won't look the way it did when you first bought it.

So again, I just have yet to stumble across a vaporizer that REALLY hits the medicinal needs of an ever growing holistic community.

 

[wthanna]

Lots of wrong assumptions in your post, Dread. ^^ I cannot speak about the volcano since I have not looked inside one personally, but with regard to the Extreme, the air is not heated until near the exit of the unit. Air does not pass through the heater and THEN over the electronics. Once the air is heated it travels through glass until reaching the bag or whip. And the launch box contains no aluminum.

 

[stickstones]

Yeah dread...you got a lot of fears about specific vapes that are way off base. You need to get a lot more specific about what quantifies a medical device for you and then get your facts straight about what is in the market already.

 

[Egzoset]

I like that post made by DreadLockNot because it reveals one aspect i notice with lots of vaporizers: the air path often ends up being hidden away from the customer's view...

 

[charliedontsurf]

The Volcano is far and away the most efficient and consistent member of my vaporizer family, but as far as a medical device? I'm just not sure. The Volcano has an air-filter, but the air channel still flows through the unit, over the internal components, and up into the bag. Am I the only person with concerns about 374 degree air moving across wires and metal/plastic parts? .

The EQ does indeed pass its heated air stream over all sorts of cables, solder, circuit boards and even a computer fan (fun!).

The Volcano, however, has a completely contained air path. Youtube "volcano insides" or "volcano teardown" or the like and you'll see that the air travels through medical-grade tubing and is in no way subjected to the internals of the machine. It's also wildly overpriced and can only fill bags.

As for what I think the market needs, we could use a Vapir NO2-alike, except not being a total piece of shit. Something small, silent, efficient, portable, temp adjustable, self contained with an onboard battery and a decent size bowl that doesn't taste like plastic. Imagine if Sony made a vape - that sort of thing. The MFLB is not quite where I want a portable to be, although it is close.

 

[Stu]

The EQ does indeed pass its heated air stream over all sorts of cables, solder, circuit boards and even a computer fan (fun!).

Simply not true. The "heated" airpath is all glass. Only ambient air comes in contact with those things, just as it comes in contact with every piece of electronics in the room.

 

[charliedontsurf]

The EQ does indeed pass its heated air stream over all sorts of cables, solder, circuit boards and even a computer fan (fun!).

Simply not true. The "heated" airpath is all glass. Only ambient air comes in contact with those things, just as it comes in contact with every piece of electronics in the room.

If this is true I of course retract my claim, but I've read elsewhere about it and seen some photos which, because of my slight understanding of the EQ, seemed worrisome. I think Stinkmeaner posted them and had some good information on the subject on a post buried somewhere, probably in the EQ thread. I've never used or even seen any EQ in person, so am the furthest thing from an authority; I'm just a guy who thinks he remembers hearing something onceuponatime.

I actually feel kind of bad having not used some of the most major vapes on forum. I've never used any log vape, nor the DBV, EQ or SSV.

 

[Stu]

I appreciate your honesty, but I think you should refrain from re-stating some claim you may have heard as this type of mis-information is not useful to anyone. I have had a Q for some time now, and I'm quite familiar with it. It would only take a cursory look at it's design to see that no electronics are in the heated airpath.

 

[momatik]

I'm a really big fan of what someone else already said, a utilization of back pressure to really concentrate hits.

I'd like to be able to pop in a small amount of herb and vaporize it completely in 1 hit.

 

[max]

The EQ does indeed pass its heated air stream over all sorts of cables, solder, circuit boards and even a computer fan (fun!).

Simply not true. The "heated" airpath is all glass. Only ambient air comes in contact with those things, just as it comes in contact with every piece of electronics in the room.

You're drawing air over/through active electronics. The fact that the air hasn't been heated yet doesn't mean it's automatically safe. And stating that it's the same as breathing air where a TV or whatever is in the same room is a little ridiculous. I'm not saying it's definitely a serious issue, but it is something that some would consider an issue.

 

[Egzoset]

Pardon me if i'm making a wrong assumption here but i believe that a potential customer who finds out about some "ambiant air path" might think to himself this could still affect the "taste", even if the air path doesn't get significantly contaminated to be a real health concern. Considering the price tag that comes with most vaporizers cusumers are entitled to be informed of such things, IMO.

 

[stinkmeaner]

The EQ does indeed pass its heated air stream over all sorts of cables, solder, circuit boards and even a computer fan (fun!).

Simply not true. The "heated" airpath is all glass. Only ambient air comes in contact with those things, just as it comes in contact with every piece of electronics in the room.

The heated airpath is not all glass since the heating element is not glass, the EQ uses an Aluminium oxide Heater which is in the air path as well as all wiring leading to said heater.

The electronics and fan are in the air path but as noted they are not in direct contact with the heat, though one could imagine that the air is not exactly "ambient" considering there is a 400+ degree heater inches away which likely raises the temperature of all surrounding areas to a much higher temperature than the outside air (just feel the outside of the machine for a clearer picture). This is not to say that the device is unsafe, but you can't convince me that it is an ideal medically oriented device either, but I don't think that is what they were aiming for anyways considering the bling-bling design with the LED mood lighting and remote control, the EQ is obviously aimed at a specific demographic.

 

[sunsett70]

I'd like to see something like the PD but with adjustable heat. .....

Oh and one more thing I can think of that I would like to see: the ability to change the bowl size or stem size so that one could load a big bowl or stem for a party or use a very small amount for just yourself. One thing that has turned me away from certain vapes is that they seem to require a larger load of herb. To me, it's all about efficiency.

the da buddha uses adjustable heat and you can customise it for small amounts for yourself (with the arizer dome screen on the dbv wand u just need a pinch) or take your usual big hits using the normal wand.

 

[rtwoite]

These ideas are possible though prob not economically viable

I'd like a system which produces a full extraction, something impossible if combustion or boiling point cannot be manipulated. I've heard about a vacuum. I used an online tool to calculate the reduced boiling point. In order to reduce the boiling point by 100 degrees F you need to create a significant vacuum. Another Idea is to manipulated combustion by heating the herbs in the prescence of a small amount of noble gas like nitrogen or helium. If all oxygen could be displaced that would slow the "browning" and possibly allow higher temps. would want to avoid asphyxiation... With enough common sense one would know to take a real breathe once in a while but.

I would like a whip with forced air as an option. Like a push button which only activates the fan while you hold it down.

Compact, Fewest moving parts, quiet, Ordinary looking, Sturdy.

Something that adds humidity, something that filters out/removes waxes and resins. +++
///edit///

Also something that I don't quite like is that vapor is less expansive, in begins to condense very quickly. Perhaps a system could be designed which heats the herb and then incorporates a second tubular inline heating element of a much higher temperature to reheat just the vapor. IMHO it may be possible to have vapor that is more kinetic and expansive and still cool. Vaporization usually adds just enough energy to get the compound to boil off and no more. Take just a little of this energy away and condensation happens. Add a lot more and you get less condensation and a smaller particle size. This is all speculative but reduced particle size would be a benefit to me. I can feel all the vapor settle onto the upper part of my wind pipe with frequent use. A more expansive vapor could distribute more evenly and reduce this irritation.

 

[Egzoset]

If everyone could stop supporting products made possible because of unsatisfying design trade-offs then maybe what's not economically viable today would become a reality tomorrow...

 

[rtwoite]

seriously why hasn't sony made a voice-activated barely-not-magic version yet?