heavy hitter vs weak hitter vaporizer for health

[oneness]

I wonder how a heavy hitting vaporizer like the Tinymight2 compares to a weak hitter like a Mighty+ healthwise when using the same amount of cannabis.

How is a heavy hitting vaporizer able to extract more THC at the same temperature? or is the secret of a heavy hitter the higher temperature and we are just thinking it is the same temperature since we trust the specs of the manufacturer?
a higher temperature is the only logical explanation for me why a heavy hitting device can extract more at the same time. so this would make a weak hitter healthier.

You can clear out a bowl in 1-2 draws with a TM compared to a Mighty using 10+ draws. so basically don't having to inhale as much sounds on the other hand better healthwise.

I think there must be a reason why S+B still haven't put a heavy hitting vaporizer on the market and cuts the temperature at 210° celsius.

 

[GnarlyVandal]

Personally I find heavy hitters better as less time inhaling and coughing (if I’m feeling terrible, that is)
Like I’d use my Dynavap and FMJ combo for a single hit extraction over my mighty when my throat/chest is sore as I know I’ll be coughing my ass off for 10 minutes with the mighty for every hit.

Regarding extraction, consistency of temperature is a variable you have to consider, yes you might hit all vapes at 400 Fahrenheit, but not all vapes would remain at that temp during the hit. Also have to think about oven type, you won’t have to stir mighty as it’s hybrid, but a tinymight being full convection does need a stir or two

Regarding S&B, I think Troy and Jerry had a little insight on that recently, think they were saying the S&B guys never wanted to have massive rips and sit on a sofa kind of high. It’s much more of a social event where session style vaporisation comes more in to play, rather than on demand vaporisation.

Think the S&B hybrid volcano also is a higher temp than 210 Celsius but could be wrong

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

but a tinymight being full convection does need a stir or two

This is not my experience. I have never stirred with TM

 

[666Honeybadger]

It's not higher temperatures but it's more depending on the mass/power of the heater. TM can extract efficient on lower temperatures because of the high power heater that can draw up to 70watt..so even on low temp it uses more calories. Because of this it can heat the entire load simultaneously to any given temperature thus creating more clouds on low temperature... at least that's how I understand it.

 

[GnarlyVandal]

This is not my experience. I have never stirred with TM

That’s cool. Though doesn’t the TM2 include a stir tool as needing to stir with a TM is so common?

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

That’s cool. Though doesn’t the TM2 include a stir tool as needing to stir with a TM is so common?

TM can have this darker ring. But TM2 is very even.

 

[Vaporware]

I don’t have a TM but I have a couple of FlowerPots and a Toad (all convection heaters like the TM). Depending on how I use them stirring can help sometimes, but it is possible to get pretty thorough extraction without stirring if that’s what you want.

Even when I stir because it doesn’t seem done to me, it usually just gets me one more below average draw not everyone would bother with.

You might feel the need to stir more as you learn how it works and experiment with grind sizes, temps, draw speed, etc., but it’s possible to get pretty full extraction without stirring.

The main point against that with a convection heater is that all of the heat is coming from one side. That makes it harder to extract from surfaces that aren’t facing the heater, especially at low temps. With long slow draws or temp stepping you can still get it done, but that is one place a hybrid or conduction based heater has an easier time.

Still, I generally prefer full convection or convection heavy hybrids. They’re more versatile and capable of delivering whatever I want at the moment.

Edit: I didn’t address the health aspect, but I’m not sure it’s been studied enough to give us a good answer.

I’d say if whatever you use is making your mouth/throat/lungs/etc. uncomfortable it’s a good idea to reassess how and how often you use it, whether or not you’re drinking enough water along with it, etc.

Otherwise it seems obvious to me that these things are much better for us than smoking, but inhaling a bunch of hot air and foreign substances is not ideal for our bodies…I’m a medical user, but if I were recreational I would be more careful to minimize how much I inhaled and and how often.

If you’re really worried you can supplement it with edibles, and I think the combination is better than either one by itself anyway.

 

[Farid]

a higher temperature is the only logical explanation for me why a heavy hitting device can extract more at the same time. so this would make a weak hitter healthier.

There's much more at play than temperature. As others have stated, temperature does not stay constant on any vaporizer - though some are better at holding a relatively consistent temperature.

Then there is the issue of what is actually being heated. Is air being heated? Is the bud directly in contact with the oven? How much of the bud is being heated? Is it even?

As a direct counter example to your conclusion consider a MFLB and a ball vape. The ball vape can be set to a very low temperature and the MFLB can be hit in a high temp way that scortches the bud almost black on one surface.

Most would agree that the ball vape is the heavier hitter. It's heater is much larger and can hold its temperature consistent throughout the draw, evenly vaporizing the load. The MFLB on the other hand can heat what it touches at a much higher temperature, but it is not heating the entire load. Mixing is required. It also requires a very slow draw.

I'd say a bigger contributor to a vape being considered a heavy hitter is it's ability to quickly and evenly kill what you put in it. Add a larger bowl and maintain those qualities and you'll have something even heavier.

As for health that's an entirely different rabbit hole that I prefer to avoid, as it's based mostly in speculation, and I am no physician.

 

[GoldenBud]

Mighty+ limited to 41W vs TM2 limited to 75W, the TM1/2 will support fast draw at 230C while Mighty+ can't do this
SB vapes are intended for slow draw, lower temp other than TM/TP80 because (I THINK) with 230C temps they'll need to use another insulator other than PEEK or so, maybe wood, and higher temps means more testing etc'
wood is definately a good insulator for high temps

the TM1/2 will definately extract faster. but many people like slow draw for the temps. with the TM you can do what the Mighty+ does, but with the Mighty+ you can't do what the TM1/2 does

and the airflow of TM1/2 is much open, 18 air holes for airflow

 

[darbarikanada]

too many variables. I've gotten ginormous hits from my mighty, coughed up a lung, without even being at max temp (bubble hash...), and of course you can get hits from it that are so gentle all you get is flavor on the exhale. I suspect we'll have to wait until vaporizing's been around long enough for any serious issues to become apparent, but in the meantime, if you're coughing, your lungs aren't happy. vaporizing's almost certainly less bad for you than smoking, but hot vapor (i.e. steam) can burn tissue - fast.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

As for health that's an entirely different rabbit hole that I prefer to avoid, as it's based mostly in speculation, and I am no physician.

Well it's no speculation that keeping it under 200c means no benzene which is better for health..
Lately I've started to vape at lower temps just for this reason alone. I no longer try to cash the load to dark brown AVB, in fact I think dumping your load when it's golden brown is our best bet for being as health conscious as possible when it comes to vaping flower. That means accepting that you're leaving some goodies on the table...which I have no problem with anymore. I just increase the size of the load if Iwant to get fully medicated without hitting high temps.

 

[vapirtoo]

This is so timely!
I just brought out the old Vapolution 2 and put
my heavies away for now.
The airpath is probably the most important health concern.
Vapolution is all glass.
I agree that a combination of convection and conduction extracts the most.
I do not like to cough, but when you cough, you get off!
My weak dry hitters are kicking my ass right now with minimal coughing.
Go figure?
My aluminum block Supreme 3 has never gone past 200c.

 

[Farid]

Well it's no speculation that keeping it under 200c means no benzene which is better for health..
Lately I've started to vape at lower temps just for this reason alone. I no longer try to cash the load to dark brown AVB, in fact I think dumping your load when it's golden brown is our best bet for being as health conscious as possible when it comes to vaping flower. That means accepting that you're leaving some goodies on the table...which I have no problem with anymore. I just increase the size of the load if Iwant to get fully medicated without hitting high temps.

I really try not to get into health discussions because I think its splitting hairs. I work in construction. I'm likely exposed to more benzene working than I would be if I was chain smoking joints.

But if getting fewer cannabinoids means you're vaping more, that means you're consuming a higher proportion of terpenes. Some would argue that's more damaging to health depending on the flower's profile. Others would argue that using more flower means more exposure to inhalations of hot air.

My point is it's impossible to quantify these differences, and even if we were to, the relative differences in health outcomes is best left to physicians.

If you feel keeping certain temperatures is more enjoyable - all power to you. But at the end of the day the biggest variable in health effects comes from the quality of the flower being vaped.

 

[1973PortlandToker]

if you're coughing, your lungs aren't happy.

That's the downside of vaping. I have two wonderful units, a walnut Vapman and an Airvape Legacy Pro. Most hits are mild, but when the draw starts to get thick I often cough. That's not good.

Initially I thought I could minimize this by coating my throat with honey, but it's the lungs that become irritated and cause the coughing. Not the throat.

I've also thought of moving to edibles -- no coughing -- but they take so damn long to take effect.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I wonder how a heavy hitting vaporizer like the Tinymight2 compares to a weak hitter like a Mighty+ healthwise when using the same amount of cannabis.

How is a heavy hitting vaporizer able to extract more THC at the same temperature? or is the secret of a heavy hitter the higher temperature and we are just thinking it is the same temperature since we trust the specs of the manufacturer?
a higher temperature is the only logical explanation for me why a heavy hitting device can extract more at the same time. so this would make a weak hitter healthier.

You can clear out a bowl in 1-2 draws with a TM compared to a Mighty using 10+ draws. so basically don't having to inhale as much sounds on the other hand better healthwise.

I think there must be a reason why S+B still haven't put a heavy hitting vaporizer on the market and cuts the temperature at 210° celsius.

You're forgetting about materials, power and technology used, that is more of a factor (with heating element size and vapor pathway etc.) this:

It's not higher temperatures but it's more depending on the mass/power of the heater. TM can extract efficient on lower temperatures because of the high power heater that can draw up to 70watt..so even on low temp it uses more calories. Because of this it can heat the entire load simultaneously to any given temperature thus creating more clouds on low temperature... at least that's how I understand it.

That’s cool. Though doesn’t the TM2 include a stir tool as needing to stir with a TM is so common?

It is more of a multi-use tool, it helps you empty a chamber, adjust the cooling unit, and other things...

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I really try not to get into health discussions because I think its splitting hairs. I work in construction. I'm likely exposed to more benzene working than I would be if I was chain smoking joints.

But if getting fewer cannabinoids means you're vaping more, that means you're consuming a higher proportion of terpenes. Some would argue that's more damaging to health depending on the flower's profile. Others would argue that using more flower means more exposure to inhalations of hot air.

My point is it's impossible to quantify these differences, and even if we were to, the relative differences in health outcomes is best left to physicians.

If you feel keeping certain temperatures is more enjoyable - all power to you. But at the end of the day the biggest variable in health effects comes from the quality of the flower being vaped.

All good points. My motivation was mainly based on the data from my own experience with influenza and COVID, where I learned the hard way that I have to quit when sick. One time I had to visit the doc for bacterial bronchitis, nasty stuff, can lead to pneumonia without antibiotic intervention, all because I wouldn't just lay off the vape while i developed the flu.

Since then I've been sick several more times and would have to gently ease back into vaping after several days of abstinence for the duration of the infection (and whaddya know, I've never gotten a secondary bacterial infection since that one time). Thats what led me to dialing down the temps and stop feeling the need to hit 430 every time I session, just in general.. it just feels harsh. So the first bowl after the period of abstinence would be all about low temps, and dump the load earlier, just trying to keep potential inflammation to a minimum. But even when I'm well my wind pipes are thanking me for that adjustment cuz they're subject to far less irritation and discomfort.

 

[tashian]

In my experience mouth to lung is way less aggressive than long direct to lung as needed by most convection vapes.

 

[weedidas]

a higher temperature is the only logical explanation for me why a heavy hitting device can extract more at the same time. so this would make a weak hitter healthier.

Depends what metric you use to define "healthier". If vapor condensate or terpenes are more unhealthy to inhale than cannabinoids, then 200' is is healthier than 170' because of the cannabinoid to by-product ratio. https://www.researchgate.net/public...nabinoid_content_of_vaporised_Cannabis_sativa

One hitting harder at the same temperature might be explained by heat vs temperature. For example, a stovetop produces more heat at the same temperature than a vape coil.

Initially I thought I could minimize this by coating my throat with honey, but it's the lungs that become irritated and cause the coughing. Not the throat.

Try baking your weed in an oven at 100'C for 20 minutes and vape it. That stopped the lung irritation for me.

 

[GoldenBud]

if you're coughing, your lungs aren't happy

our lungs are not happy to get THC (315gr/mol vs 29gr/mol of air) anyway... they're not built for that.... only for air... but the vapor is much better than smoking ofc

 

[invertedisdead]

One vape can't "extract" at a lower temperature than the next one.

The vape doesn't actually change the temperature at which cannabinoids volatize.

That's like saying water boils at a different temperature, just because we used a different pot.

You can improve the efficiency of the system, (we can even get water to boil faster) but the fundamental physics stay the same.

Extraction rate is a function of surface area, temperature, and pressure. Not mass, or watts. Besides, a vape with a lot of mass would certainly need more watts to power up to the same temperature - thus no net gain.

Mass is just a very rudimentary form of temperature control.
Increased surface area typically results in increased mass, so these terms are often confused.

 

[GoldenBud]

Extraction rate is a function of surface area, temperature, and pressure. Not mass, or watts. Besides, a vape with a lot of mass would certainly need more watts to power up to the same temperature - thus no net gain.

Q=mDot*cp*dT (power=mass/sec*specific heat*delta temp)
+ Q=U*A*dT (power=total coefficient mass transfer * surface area * delta temp)
so everything is needed except pressure i think, which is 1atm, if you mean vapor pressure hmmm i can try finding some equation about it!

edit: 'U' is taking care of the velocity of the vapor... dunno if vapor pressure is relative...

 

[invertedisdead]

Q=mDot*cp*dT (power=mass/sec*specific heat*delta temp)
+ Q=U*A*dT (power=total coefficient mass transfer * surface area * delta temp)
so everything is needed except pressure i think, which is 1atm, if you mean vapor pressure hmmm i can try finding some equation about it!

edit: 'U' is taking care of the velocity of the vapor... dunno if vapor pressure is relative...

Vapor pressure would be more relevant in a closed container, but all of our devices allow an open flow for inhalation to occur.

Pressure limitations for our use are probably going to stem from relying on lung power, but I've always wondered why nobody made a vape that injected a sample, like a gas chromatography system. I guess the closest thing would be a really hot titanium nail like 2012

 

[WisePenny]

Extraction rate is a function of surface area, temperature, and pressure. Not mass, or watts. Besides, a vape with a lot of mass would certainly need more watts to power up to the same temperature - thus no net gain.

Mass is just a very rudimentary form of temperature control.
Increased surface area typically results in increased mass, so these terms are often confused.

My understanding of the TM heater is that it is a wide flat piece of SS that is coiled (lots of surface area!), which explains how it is such an effective extractor, eh?

 

[Shit Snacks]

My understanding of the TM heater is that it is a wide flat piece of SS that is coiled (lots of surface area!), which explains how it is such an effective extractor, eh?

Yes it is a spiral of stainless steel ribbon with ceramic stability posts

 

[GoldenBud]

My understanding of the TM heater is that it is a wide flat piece of SS that is coiled (lots of surface area!), which explains how it is such an effective extractor, eh?

the heater must weigh few grams or so.... volume it doesn't have, and people (me too) compare this to TP80 which has a lot of volume.... so the TM heater must have some few grams at least.... 5gr or more.....and the fact it's kind of circle helps it too....