Heat Stream Lighter Ideas

[DcTokeMan]

For the longest time(3 whole years,lol) ive had this nagging thought. What if there was a lighter-type device that instead of producing flames, produced a heat stream that could be used to vape a bowl of herb in a bong. Sort of like those butane flame lighters, but just heat going directly to the bowl. Im not a at all acclamated to what it takes to make a successful vape, this was just a thought i had.

Modnote: Moved and re-titled.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i have had the same thought ... a three inch long borosilicate tube, wrapped with 4 heater coils, each with its own computer temperature controller, with massive amps to heat the coils. It would be a VHW that doesn't get too hot to hold, yet delivers a consistent 370°F to 400°F regardless of volume of air flow. Would get to vape temp in about 60 seconds -- could be faster if it doesn't crack the glass. Would work with any bong.

Basically, the electronic guts of the Bud Toaster times 4, with a straight through tube. i would do it with a 4-digit display, in a cylinder shape about 1.5" diameter by 3" long.

 

[DcTokeMan]

im surprised this hasnt been done yet. i love being outside that "box"

 

[chris 71]

like i said in the simmilar post i think this could be a good idea. something so simple. but think it would be very hard too keep constant temps with the air flow. and would end up being not so simple, and end up with what we already have now more of a unit type vape. or the lighter types we already have

 

[jambandphan03]

I just saw this thread... http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/has-anyone-seen-this-a-vaporizing-lighter.7465/#post-292671

 

[Hippie Dickie]

but think it would be very hard too keep constant temps with the air flow. and would end up being not so simple

not hard at all -- if there is enough current for the heater coils -- say, 5A each. i'm going to try this once i start making my own k-type thermocouples -- they cost $6 each when i buy them, but only cost $0.15 to make (once i get a spot welder).

 

[StickyShisha2]

but i don't want the hot air that starts my vapor path to contain the gasses formed from the combustion of butane.


a while ago i saw this tool at an automotive repair station. http://toolmonger.com/2007/09/03/flameless-heat-from-the-mini-ductor/

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations StickyShisha,

...
http://toolmonger.com/2007/09/03/flameless-heat-from-the-mini-ductor/

...

Welcome to my world:

Which vape would you buy, and why?​

 

[Hippie Dickie]

induction heater only works with heating up metal, not borosilicate glass (unless some metal was added to the formula) -- and takes a lot of current -- would drain my batteries pretty quickly.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Hippie Dickie,

...works with heating up metal, not borosilicate glass...

Hummm... Perhaps i should stop using fancy graphics like these:


NeoMax Materials Co. - Temperature-sensitive Magnetic Alloys

...or...



Etc.

...would drain my batteries pretty quickly.

Well, this 1400 Watts domestic unit certainly would if it could:


YouTube: Salton ID-1081 (induction cooker) test

Yet that little experiment of mine showed temperature was reaching ~185 °C (365 °F) in about 7 seconds...

Do you like my ideal core layout better?


Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy

 

[vap999]

For the longest time(3 whole years,lol) ive had this nagging thought. What if there was a lighter-type device that instead of producing flames, produced a heat stream that could be used to vape a bowl of herb in a bong. Sort of like those butane flame lighters, but just heat going directly to the bowl. Im not a at all acclamated to what it takes to make a successful vape, this was just a thought i had.

Do a search and check out "SMD Hot Air Rework Stations." With variable temperature, air speed and/or different nozzles, etc. these should be able to well replicate the lighter-type device functionality you seek. The constant hot air stream should be much the same as a pressurized gas flame. Has there been much FC feedback about the actual utility of these devices?

 

[DcTokeMan]

not sure, i posted this thread on a whim

 

[Pipes]

but i don't want the hot air that starts my vapor path to contain the gasses formed from the combustion of butane.
a while ago i saw this tool at an automotive repair station. http://toolmonger.com/2007/09/03/flameless-heat-from-the-mini-ductor/

I love this idea. It would make for a unique device for sure. Not sure on the efficiency but the general idea sure makes sense. Would make for an element/wire free vapor path. A hunk of iron encased in ceramic or glass for the heater core??
Great food for thought.

Pipes

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Pipes,

...for an element/wire free vapor path. A hunk of iron encased in ceramic or glass for the heater...

I'm begining to really appreciate your thought process...

But if you got induction in mind though then i must point out that at least some domestic induction cooker plates available don't work well with nails, etc. The ideal shape for an affordable product such as the one pictured here happens to be a flat disc (just like the bottom of its stainless-steel pot as featured in the original box):

Induction Vaporizer (based on "Curie" alloys)​

Great food for thought.

Thought food is great and i must confess i'm actually starving at the moment...

So... Go, go! Pipes go!

...and in order to assist your imagination a bit further here's some more seed:

​

Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy​

This drawing represents a set of round glass plates combined together in order to match an induction cooker such as my Salton... The 3 larger holes would be the fresh air inlet openings, thermalization takes place as the air gets sucked in towards the center collector holes of this utterly hypothetical concept... The top triangle-like plate is meant to adjust airflow restriction.

Since the metal balls (in red) would most likely fail to heat up properly this drawing should be modified to convey what i have in mind but lets just take for granted that a round Curie-alloy metal plate is included...

 

[Pipes]

Thought food is great and i must confess i'm actually starving at the moment...

So... Go, go! Pipes go!

OK, I'll bite.
What caught my interest was the link which StickyShisha posted with the red hot nut.
The actual device looks like this:

Which got me thinking that a smaller scaled down unit might be suited for our needs.
The coil could be enclosed and maybe be actually a one piece with the handle. Having the center inside the coil be the removable section for the main heater source, vapor path and chamber/reservoir. The removable section would be the interchangeable part for different options.

Just not sure of power to heat efficiencies. Which is what could make this a cool idea or just not feasible.

I know, a dream in deed but interesting stuff.

Pipes

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm...

I do like that! Bite me as often as you wish pipes, this is all quite right but looking up at the title i realized a few minutes ago that i may seem to be stirring/flooding DcTokeMan's own fine thread after i've forgot the initial post and hence lost perspective about the intended subject!

Please DcTokeMan, forgive me. I understand a gas lignther is nowhere the cost of an induction tool, which means i should have refrained from the urge to comment here. Pipes, if we must then i'd suggest we try to develop this other topic of ours elsewhere before someone complains...

Some information must have eluded me or i wasn't careful enough or i just didn't catch what the thread was about. ..and i begin to suspect it was targetted at very economic solutions. It's all my fault.

Nice reading anyway!

 

[farscaper]

To me... this reminds me a lot of a car cigarette lighter... perhaps that idea would make a good focal point because of its size and the method in which it heats... of course it would require modifications to keep it from combusting...

so in the above instead of small metal balls which each have to be heated why not just use one single metal coil that is encased in a protective sleeve (like a car lighter)... the only thing would be heating the coil... im not privy to all that knowledge... just an idea man...

BUT,
If your looking for a more butane lighter approach... i had a Ronson torch that actually had a heat gun attachment... i would assume that this would work easy peasy... it would just have a hellacious learning curve... cause if u got to close.... combustion city... the way it worked was simple... this little nozzle fit into the torch outlet. this directed the flame down and out away from the tip of the torch. that heat passed by a metal screen that then became red hot. this was where the hot air was produced... the rushing of flames behind the screen is what propelled the hot air out of the tip... I used it many times for heat shrink wrap... at the time i wasnt into vaping and the torch has sense been passed on and the tip lost, but i am sure there are more out there...the idea above really works on the same principle of a hot wad of metal and air moving past it... the only difference would be the ignition source... and i think hippie dickie may have the tools for that innovation!

 

[Egzoset]

Hi FarsSaper,

If your looking for a more butane lighter approach...

Thanks for helping me to get back on track guys!... I'll use this opportunity to comment right on topic this time: have the metal made of a Curie-alloy so it can serve a double function! When in the woods you have a very affordable way to vape, if at home an induction cooker might manage to make the metal hot enough and without a need for the gas lighter (double-feature)!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Pipes,

Remember this?:

​

​

​

Well, i may have found a possible alternative since then. I just wonder:

​

Impressions???

I've been having some stimulating reading lately and i wish i could reference to a passage explaining that the Curie effect is only a pre-requisite to the effective implementation of a passive thermostatic IH device, e.g. something to the effect that an IH Pan (or IH Heat-Exchanger in our case) would still turn red-hot and hence cause combustion without the proper structure of various layered metal clads, whatever...

This makes me conclude that many (if not all) of those who've tried to explore IH Vaporisation before may have failed exactly for this very same reason: they probably didn't have suitable alloys/geometries handy to conduct such related experiments!!

At least in this video sample below i know it was quite true:

​

YouTube: Salton ID-1081 (induction cooker) test​

...as the experimenter was me...

 

[Egzoset]

Here's something inspiring, i hope:

​

L'Induction Magnétique au service du Vaporisme​

Well, i already knew no vaporizer needs to consume 1050/500 Watts but this could ignite some thoughts anyway. I think.

 

[Pipes]

Salutations Pipes,

Remember this?:

​

​

Well, i may have found a possible alternative since then. I just wonder:

​

Impressions???

I've been having some stimulating reading lately and i wish i could reference to a passage explaining that the Curie effect is only a pre-requisite to the effective implementation of a passive thermostatic IH device, e.g. something to the effect that an IH Pan (or IH Heat-Exchanger in our case) would still turn red-hot and hence cause combustion without the proper structure of various layered metal clads, whatever...

This makes me conclude that many (if not all) of those who've tried to explore IH Vaporisation before may have failed exactly for this very same reason: they probably didn't have suitable alloys/geometries handy to conduct such related experiments!!

At least in this video sample below i know it was quite true:

​

​

YouTube: Salton ID-1081 (induction cooker) test​

...as the experimenter was me...

Yes, the hollowed out part is how I envisioned the top on a hand held unit would look.
All electronics safely sealed inside. The heat exchanger and full vapor path would plug into that hole.
The efficiency of power transfer is still an unknown making it a feasible dream or not.
Cool for sure.
Pipes

 

[Egzoset]

Hi Pipes,

Sorry, It's Christmass and i can't stop associating those 2 it seems!!

+

...electronics safely sealed...

Yep! The IH method would make that part easy to manage and more: it would render a DUAL FUNCTION product possible (table thermostatic vs portable fire-powered)... In short a 2-in-1 vaporizer!



On my left side the dream has already come true, on the right one a Vaponic "mod" would only require some thin (suitable/layered) metalic foil to be wrapped inside in order to make it compatible, for example. Efficient power conversion in IH cooktops is nearly 90 % as i recall (if shapes of the coil and ustensile match together), so that is why i immediately saw potential in the dentistry tool shown here: it's the correct layout for a glass tube with the heater element inside. Maybe that's not the exact geometry or else but at least it could serve as the basis for a proof-of-concept experiment...



There are 2 unknowns in the present case at the moment. For starters i don't know a thing about the exact dimensions of the front opening. Next, there's the question of how much power would be available. Euh... But in my opinion it's all useless as long as an experimenter won't have access to a proper Curie alloy structure as what's going to be found in PhyTherm 230 IH cookware, etc., etc.

In any case i evaluate the required power to range around 200 Watts, that way we'd get all the juice needed for the pre-heat phase with coupling losses accounted for (my HA 2.1 is 50 Watts, wired/direct).

...

So, how does all this fit within the parameters set by this thread's title you might ask?

Well, it's simple enough as i wrote it before: the Heat Stream Lighter design could be shaped to match a magnetic generator using a simple piece of IH cookware metal. In that case a regular kitchen cooktop should do the trick i guess, but...

IH cooktop Curie alloys will always be required to make any sense in our world, IMHO. Otherwise the thermostatic feature is lost and it only becomes yet another smoker-style vapo article like this:



Red-hot!...

No Curie no candy, so to speak (translation: look ma! It's thermostatic but there ain't no sensor and not even a single wire for that matter!) - which is radically different from the nail setup as seen above!

Far from being opposed to the use of an SMD Hot-Air Rework Station, for example, i'm merely suggesting that choosing the right piece of metal would make it IH comptatible and then enhance its features as a result...

Merry Christmass!!