Hard hitting (low temp) vape.

[2pumpchump]

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by temp agility..
I believe the TM was one of the first recommendations.. as it fits the description very well . Are you using the B0 as injector or diffuser style ? If you don't mind me asking I see big difference on pid temperatures over infuser vs diffuser ball vapes .. .... do not take it that I'm saying you are vaping at a lower or higher temp... let's face it dry flower combustion happens at 450 degrees . I do temp step with the my vape from 350 aka 300 on a DC pid to 460 aka 410 on DC pid . It does take a moment to reach temperatures but is worth it in my case as they is .20g in my .40 bowl vs 0.05g .. this is my way of getting my terp hits and not killing .20g all in 1 hit . But that's a major difference between 1/4 g vs 1/20 g of flowers in the bowl

 

[RedZep]

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by temp agility..
I believe the TM was one of the first recommendations.. as it fits the description very well . Are you using the B0 as injector or diffuser style ? If you don't mind me asking I see big difference on pid temperatures over infuser vs diffuser ball vapes .. .... do not take it that I'm saying you are vaping at a lower or higher temp... let's face it dry flower combustion happens at 450 degrees . I do temp step with the my vape from 350 aka 300 on a DC pid to 460 aka 410 on DC pid . It does take a moment to reach temperatures but is worth it in my case as they is .20g in my .40 bowl vs 0.05g .. this is my way of getting my terp hits and not killing .20g all in 1 hit . But that's a major difference between 1/4 g vs 1/20 g of flowers in the bowl

Temp agility is how quickly and accurately a vape can step up through different temperatures.

Yes you can temp step with a ball vape. But it takes about 10 minutes to properly adjust to the new temp. The number on the PID does not represent the temperature of the vape itself. Even when it's heat soaked the PID is inaccurate.

This is why almost everyone who buys a ball vape with intentions of temp stepping, stop bothering and just select a temp and leave it there.

You are right in that it's more worth it with larger bowls. But then you face the absolute reality that ball vapes are less efficient at large bowls. The extraction is just not as good. You would get more effects from your flower by having two 0.1 bowls. The "why am I getting higher with less flower?" question I've seen many times can't be ignored.

I use my B0 with glass injector bowl, pre heated. I've tried it on dry glass j-hook also low temp. And the TM is just a much better experience.

Ball vapes are quite finicky. Scooping, tamping, pre heating the bowl, applying/removing the ball head from the bowl, brushing the bowl out. All this work for low temp hits is just too much of a pain in the ass for me. But that's relative. I would much rather instantly straw pack a TM2 bowl, set dial to 3 then instantly have the tastiest low temp hits I've experienced. Before quickly upping temp, killing bowl, emptying out and refilling.

If all you have is a B0 then enjoy your low temp hits. But it's not a superior device for that consumption style. IMO

 

[2pumpchump]

Temp agility is how quickly and accurately a vape can step up through different temperatures.

Yes you can temp step with a ball vape. But it takes about 10 minutes to properly adjust to the new temp. The number on the PID does not represent the temperature of the vape itself. Even when it's heat soaked the PID is inaccurate.

This is why almost everyone who buys a ball vape with intentions of temp stepping, stop bothering and just select a temp and leave it there.

You are right in that it's more worth it with larger bowls. But then you face the absolute reality that ball vapes are less efficient at large bowls. The extraction is just not as good. You would get more effects from your flower by having two 0.1 bowls. The "why am I getting higher with less flower?" question I've seen many times can't be ignored.

I use my B0 with glass injector bowl, pre heated. I've tried it on dry glass j-hook also low temp. And the TM is just a much better experience.

Ball vapes are quite finicky. Scooping, tamping, pre heating the bowl, applying/removing the ball head from the bowl, brushing the bowl out. All this work for low temp hits is just too much of a pain in the ass for me. But that's relative. I would much rather instantly straw pack a TM2 bowl, set dial to 3 then instantly have the tastiest low temp hits I've experienced. Before quickly upping temp, killing bowl, emptying out and refilling.

If all you have is a B0 then enjoy your low temp hits. But it's not a superior device for that consumption style. IMO

Yes it takes about 10 minutes I just leave the head on the bowl after changing temperatures get a snack and then finish it ! I agree ball vape is over kill for what he wants I also agree pid temperatures are not vape temperatures I have said that already ... unless my post that says it has been removed. And was agree with you and others that a TM might be for him .

 

[PeteyS]

Thanks to all the replies. I just put in a order for a E nano XL.
I really think the nxt would suit me better as a micro doser, and from what I understand. They have better stems with better fitment.
Reasons I went with the XL over the NXT. Im hoping that the larger heater will help out in the low temp range, and the pricing was not much more then the nxt with a steep discount on the XL at potv.
Ill report back with results.
Pete.

 

[invertedisdead]

I change temps all day long, the ZX can change temperatures in around 30 seconds.

 

[2pumpchump]

Thanks to all the replies. I just put in a order for a E nano XL.
I really think the nxt would suit me better as a micro doser, and from what I understand. They have better stems with better fitment.
Reasons I went with the XL over the NXT. Im hoping that the larger heater will help out in the low temp range, and the pricing was not much more then the nxt with a steep discount on the XL at potv.
Ill report back with results.
Pete.

It has been my experience that having a little extra heating room makes consistency low temp vaping more pleasant

 

[PeteyS]

Thanks all. I can say that the Nano XL does low temp well. Not perfect, I still need to take a very long draw to get enough heat through the herb. But I'm still able to cash a small bowl in 2 hits at 6.4 in the dial . The avb is light-med tan, and going by Storz and bickle temps, I would say that the avb looks right about in-between 180-195 degree celsius.
I also noticed that it takes a really long time for the unit to change temps. wether its raising the temp for a new bowl, or lowering it, it takes awhile for the heat soak, or the heat sink to take effect.

 

[hillbill]

My ancient Underdog Log with a Buck/boost will get what you want. Not cheap. E-Nano from Epicvape will work at about $200.
Healthy Rips Edge or Rogue for mostly convection extraction and big tastes and they are very portable.

 

[kiddvudu2]

I 2nd the TM2 recommendation. It has a very informative thread here as well.

Good luck!

 

[Oil420FL]

I was thinking of posting a similar question when I stumbled on this. Wanting to clear a 0.1gm bowl in 1 or 2 hits at about 390 F or less (bowl temp) seems a reasonable goal to me. But i guess it’s not. I’ve tried many of the devices recommended here and have to say the results were disappointing. Despite all the innovation in dry herb vaping, it’s much easier for me to just do a cold start dab.

 

[TigoleBitties]

I was thinking of posting a similar question when I stumbled on this. Wanting to clear a 0.1gm bowl in 1 or 2 hits at about 390 F or less (bowl temp) seems a reasonable goal to me. But i guess it’s not. I’ve tried many of the devices recommended here and have to say the results were disappointing. Despite all the innovation in dry herb vaping, it’s much easier for me to just do a cold start dab.

I think many devices mentioned here can clear a 0.1g bowl in one or two hits. All the ball vapes are certainly capable of this and the TM2 is also capable of this even though it's not a ball vape. Just for reference, I own a Couchlog which is technically a ball vape and it is capable of doing this as well.

I'm not sure why the temp of the bowl is important (you specifically mention temps around 390F) as long as there is no charring and no more vapor can be produced. For what it's worth, the color of the ABV at 390F for most devices I own with a digital readout would be a copper, caramel or dark tan color. This is also roughly the color I see when I clear a 0.1g sized bowl in a couple of big hits with the Couchlog and those hits are tasty.

 

[stinkytofus]

milaana 2

 

[Oil420FL]

I think many devices mentioned here can clear a 0.1g bowl in one or two hits. All the ball vapes are certainly capable of this and the TM2 is also capable of this even though it's not a ball vape. Just for reference, I own a Couchlog which is technically a ball vape and it is capable of doing this as well.

I'm not sure why the temp of the bowl is important (you specifically mention temps around 390F) as long as there is no charring and no more vapor can be produced. For what it's worth, the color of the ABV at 390F for most devices I own with a digital readout would be a copper, caramel or dark tan color. This is also roughly the color I see when I clear a 0.1g sized bowl in a couple of big hits with the Couchlog and those hits are tasty.

Thanks for the reply. The 390 in my comment means “under 400 degrees” because my 71 year old lungs cough out all the vapor when I get close to 400. I can use a higher temp with dabs, so my lungs must be reacting to plant material that’s not included in the concentrate. I read somewhere that dry herb combustion starts around 390 so maybe that very slight trace is what is setting my lungs off.

My TM2 never passed the reach test enough for me to master it. Either vapor too thin or extended coughing fit. I’ve been considering a CouchLog

 

[Shit Snacks]

My TM2 never passed the reach test enough for me to master it. Either vapor too thin or extended coughing fit.

Were you only using it in a stock setup?

 

[Oil420FL]

Were you only using it in a stock setup?

i tried an aftermarket stem [can’t recall maker]. Best was through a bubbler for me.

 

[fraktal]

I was thinking of posting a similar question when I stumbled on this. Wanting to clear a 0.1gm bowl in 1 or 2 hits at about 390 F or less (bowl temp) seems a reasonable goal to me. But i guess it’s not. I’ve tried many of the devices recommended here and have to say the results were disappointing. Despite all the innovation in dry herb vaping, it’s much easier for me to just do a cold start dab.

With the Taroma 360 you can easily vap 0,1 at 370 your AVB will be brown, great flavor and powerful.

 

[Shit Snacks]

i tried an aftermarket stem [can’t recall maker]. Best was through a bubbler for me.

Yeah there are a lot of options, overall best for thick cloud and smooth flavor in my experience has been multi right angle hooks

 

[LordOfTheVapes]

I was thinking of posting a similar question when I stumbled on this. Wanting to clear a 0.1gm bowl in 1 or 2 hits at about 390 F or less (bowl temp) seems a reasonable goal to me. But i guess it’s not. I’ve tried many of the devices recommended here and have to say the results were disappointing. Despite all the innovation in dry herb vaping, it’s much easier for me to just do a cold start dab.

Hey @Oil420FL , which devices have you tried?

 

[Grass Yes]

The 390 in my comment means “under 400 degrees” because my 71 year old lungs cough out all the vapor when I get close to 400.

You do know that the temperature on the PID controller has almost no bearing on the bowl temperature for ball vapes?

I mean the temperature on any vape is pretty meaningless except as relative higher to lower on the same vape. But a temperature probe in the bowl would not be anywhere near the temperature on the PID controller.

I assume you know that, but some of your comments here made me unsure.

 

[Oil420FL]

You do know that the temperature on the PID controller has almost no bearing on the bowl temperature for ball vapes?

I mean the temperature on any vape is pretty meaningless except as relative higher to lower on the same vape. But a temperature probe in the bowl would not be anywhere near the temperature on the PID controller.

I assume you know that, but some of your comments here made me unsure.

Yes i get that bowl temp is a function of volume/speed/duration of inhalation, distance from heat source, etc. , and the heater is only one influence. And it’s so hard to measure bowl temp in most devices that many people refuse to talk about it [or say that it’s impossible to know…]. When I’ve gone to the trouble in the past, the relationship to the heater temp is fairly constant in a well regulated device. IMHO Comparing to a different vape is best around how well regulated each is relative to the set temp. I’ve seen good regulation in devices under $100 and poor regulation in $300+ devices. I’ve talked bowl temp with a couple of vape designers and they didn’t push back. My temp probe setup is modeled on one used by Cannabis Hardware guys.

 

[Grass Yes]

Yes i get that bowl temp is a function of volume/speed/duration of inhalation, distance from heat source, etc. , and the heater is only one influence.

I was saying this, but when discussing ball vape temperature it is strictly the coil's thermocouple. Its not the heater temperature. So 500 on a PID controller has no comparison to one of those regulated battery devices that you were talking about.

 

[TigoleBitties]

Thanks for the reply. The 390 in my comment means “under 400 degrees” because my 71 year old lungs cough out all the vapor when I get close to 400. I can use a higher temp with dabs, so my lungs must be reacting to plant material that’s not included in the concentrate. I read somewhere that dry herb combustion starts around 390 so maybe that very slight trace is what is setting my lungs off.

My TM2 never passed the reach test enough for me to master it. Either vapor too thin or extended coughing fit. I’ve been considering a CouchLog

Let's keep in mind that you're only working with a guess that bowl temp is a problem. I'll agree that higher temps lead to harsher vapor as a general rule. This happens not only because pyrolytic compounds start forming but also because hot air that lacks moisture is a throat irritant.

However, I have vaped at temperatures (according to digital readouts only) of 350F-370F on many devices and have been choked out by the vapor. Not because the temperatures were burning plant material, as they're well below your threshold of 390F, but because terpenes and thc hitting the back of your throat as an aerosol is irritating to the throat. Sometimes this can't be avoided. Perhaps your concentrates lack enough terpenes and that's why they're tolerable, even at higher temps?

I still suggest that you not be overly concerned about bowl temperature. ABV color is a great indicator of extraction and if there's no visible charring and no vapor left after 2 hits with your device, you're good. I will say that I think my lungs are pretty decent and I can clear a 0.1g bowl in one to two hits using the Couchlog, but I wouldn't say it would be easy for someone with fragile lungs and/or reduced lung capacity.

Edit: I forgot to mention that using a water piece is virtually a must for you in my eyes. It will lower the temp, terps and the vapor density while adding moisture to the hot air.

 

[Oil420FL]

Let's keep in mind that you're only working with a guess that bowl temp is a problem. I'll agree that higher temps lead to harsher vapor as a general rule. This happens not only because pyrolytic compounds start forming but also because hot air that lacks moisture is a throat irritant.

However, I have vaped at temperatures (according to digital readouts only) of 350F-370F on many devices and have been choked out by the vapor. Not because the temperatures were burning plant material, as they're well below your threshold of 390F, but because terpenes and thc hitting the back of your throat as an aerosol is irritating to the throat. Sometimes this can't be avoided. Perhaps your concentrates lack enough terpenes and that's why they're tolerable, even at higher temps?

I still suggest that you not be overly concerned about bowl temperature. ABV color is a great indicator of extraction and if there's no visible charring and no vapor left after 2 hits with your device, you're good. I will say that I think my lungs are pretty decent and I can clear a 0.1g bowl in one to two hits using the Couchlog, but I wouldn't say it would be easy for someone with fragile lungs and/or reduced lung capacity.

Edit: I forgot to mention that using a water piece is virtually a must for you in my eyes. It will lower the temp, terps and the vapor density while adding moisture to the hot air.

Yes some products [dry herb or concentrates] produce coughing even at lower temps. But I’ve yet to avoid a coughing fit with any dry herb vape set to a high temp. So while temp might not literally be The Problem, it reliably reflects when a problem is likely to occur. And since the high quality, solventless concentrates that are very terpy are not making me cough, I don’t think your aerosol to the throat idea is what’s driving this for me.

yes since bowl temp is so hard to measure, I look at ABV color. IMHO it’s most useful comparing same product in same device. Bottom line is how well I’m medicated.

Yes a water piece is essential for me. I went from cold water to warm water to just ice. The just ice [a cup or more] works best, suggesting it’s temp more than humidity? When I’ve pushed through the coughing, i develop a cough when I’m not vaping after a few days that only goes away if I stop vaping for several days. BTW thanks a million for sharing your thoughts on this.

 

[simba]

I'd try find a second hand Supreme, nothing else I've used can do lower temp hits that are still heavyweight and get full extraction.

The only potential problem is it can take some lung power because the draw is fairly restricted.

 

[TigoleBitties]

Yes a water piece is essential for me. I went from cold water to warm water to just ice. The just ice [a cup or more] works best, suggesting it’s temp more than humidity? When I’ve pushed through the coughing, i develop a cough when I’m not vaping after a few days that only goes away if I stop vaping for several days.

Hmmm now that you say this maybe it is the temperature (hot dry air) that is irritating your throat. I've developed the type of cough you mention early on in my vaping days when I would inhale very hot air. I think with the right amount of water cooling, any ball vape and certainly a number of other devices that were mentioned here should work. Ball vapes are among the most efficient so they can be effective at lower temperatures.

BTW thanks a million for sharing your thoughts on this.

You're welcome!