Government weed shops. For it or against it?

[terpojones35]

The state of Illinois is on the brink of marijuana legalization, through which only a select number of dispensaries will be permitted to sell the product. All of this will be under the supervision of the government and through government processes/regulations it will be allowed.
As we know, the tax money from the residents’ purchases will go directly to the state. Who doesn’t wanna buy an eighth for $60? I sure as hell wouldn’t. Anyways, my point here is, what’s all the fuss and excitement about? If you saw the footage of the legalization in British Columbia not too long ago, customers of adult age were prancing into the dispensary as if weed was something they never thought they’d see again. In my honest opinion, this isn’t the way to go. And as exciting as the word “legal” sounds, there’s still this voice in the back of my head that keeps telling me, “they’re gonna fuck it all up”.
There’s nothing like picking up a much needed eighth of some gas for $25 from the plug, and there’s nothing like the wonder that comes with having to learn about your grass over time. Nothing like the experience.
Why so much pressure to commercialize and make plastic out of something so full of that natural grime?

 

[His_Highness]

I've lived in states where liquor meant going to the state store. No thank you.

I don't mind the government taking their cut as long as its reasonable and you get something in return like testing requirements, safety and some quality based oversight. Will everyone agree? Nope...some folks like to live in a community with a Homeowners Association/HOA and some would rather chew off a leg before living with an HOA.

Government involvement is like a pendulum....it'll swing too far to the left and then too far to the right until it lands somewhere in the middle where everyone will hate the crap out of it.

In the meantime....I'm just happy as a clam that I can get legal herb for the first time in over 40 years.

 

[terpojones35]

I don't mind the government taking their cut as long as its reasonable and you get something in return like testing requirements, safety and some quality based oversight.

We are dealing with a plant here, not a rare and difficult to source material. And “their cut”? The reason they’re getting a cut at all is because they ran out of valid ways to make money so they turn to drugs. Marijuana is a plant, and in natural abundance it should be cheap. The stigmatized view of marijuana is the governments creation and it’s the exact reason it’s to be expensive today. I can buy a few ears of corn and some potatoes for less than 5 dollars and have myself a full dinner for extremely cheap., but marijuana? Hell no! Something that grows more easily and freely than most commercial food crops should definitely cost $60 for an 8th of an ounce. Makes a whole lot of sense. Safety and labeling also needs to be top priority because so many people have been dying from smoking marijuana lately. Last week on the news I saw a report where 4 friends hit a bong and 3 of them died with one left paralyzed. Like come on guys.

 

[shredder]

I'd rather states grew mj in prisons. And if some product stayed, so be it.

Prisoners could learn new skills, labor costs would be low, and no one would break in to steal it. They could even have their own labs for testing.

Afaik, the only people hurt would be mega weed companies looking for max profits.

 

[His_Highness]

Luv that idea @shredder ^^^^^^^^

 

[terpojones35]

I'd rather states grew mj in prisons. And if some product stayed, so be it.

Prisoners could learn new skills, labor costs would be low, and no one would break in to steal it. They could even have their own labs for testing.

Amen.

 

[Vaporware]

The state gets “their cut” because that’s how legalization has been sold to the general public - as a way to make money.

I can live with the temporary restrictions and markup of the medical system I’m under, but I’ll only consider legalization a real success when we can grow our own.

When you talk fondly of buying unknown strains on the black market, I get why it had some appeal or at least nostalgia value, but don’t forget the very real downsides it’s had for millions of people.

Still, even with a card I can understand buying outside of the dispensary system, especially where the prices are extremely high.

 

[terpojones35]

I can live with the temporary restrictions and markup of the medical system I’m under, but I’ll only consider legalization a real success when we can grow our own.

When you talk fondly of buying unknown strains on the black market, I get why it had some appeal or at least nostalgia value, but don’t forget the very real downsides it’s had for millions of people.

When I started consuming cannabis, I consumed it as a drug. I enjoyed the way it made me feel and I used it because it altered me physically and mentally. It was and is still drug use in its purest form and to me there’s nothing wrong with that. It wasn’t until later that I started to realize it’s potential as a medicine, and I respect that even more. The thing is, this isn’t about nostalgia value at all. This is about where the cannabis we know came from and where it’s going. The OG strains, the sour diesel, the cookies, dro becoming more widely available, everything we know and remember. All of the effort that was put into our cannabis, that was honest and it had a solid community to back it. Everything we know about weed and have gotten out of it was from the grime of the smokers. But now, we have rampant commercialization and mids being sold for $50. The reason weed is so good today, the reason we have insane concentrates, everything we have is because of the illegal community and it’s efforts over the years. It would suck to see the state suck the life out of something it condemned and spat on for years.

 

[Vaporware]

When I started consuming cannabis, I consumed it as a drug. I enjoyed the way it made me feel and I used it because it altered me physically and mentally. It was and is still drug use in its purest form and to me there’s nothing wrong with that. It wasn’t until later that I started to realize it’s potential as a medicine, and I respect that even more. The thing is, this isn’t about nostalgia value at all. This is about where the cannabis we know came from and where it’s going. The OG strains, the sour diesel, the cookies, dro becoming more widely available, everything we know and remember. All of the effort that was put into our cannabis, that was honest and it had a solid community to back it. Everything we know about weed and have gotten out of it was from the grime of the smokers. But now, we have rampant commercialization and mids being sold for $50. The reason weed is so good today, the reason we have insane concentrates, everything we have is because of the illegal community and it’s efforts over the years. It would suck to see the state suck the life out of something it condemned and spat on for years.

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned nostalgia:

“There’s nothing like picking up a much needed eighth of some gas for $25 from the plug, and there’s nothing like the wonder that comes with having to learn about your grass over time. Nothing like the experience.”

That is a certain unique experience that I’m sure has its own charms and advantages, I’ve just never experienced them completely. I did start off at a Farmer’s Market instead of a dispensary, and I think I get at least some of the flavor though.

It sucks that I was brainwashed and part of the group who vilified all of you until about 10 years ago, and that it still took me another 5 years to come around to trying it once I found that other medication wasn’t good enough or safe enough to address my needs in a way I was comfortable with.

I can’t say I’ve ever been a real part of that culture outside of here, but I do give it a lot of credit now and I get where you’re coming from. The people who risked everything for either medication or just the recreational love of the plant are largely being sidelined along with a rich and interesting underground culture with a long history in favor of large corporate interests and annoying sterilization and homogenization, like just about everything else today.

I think the trend toward dropping Sativa/Hybrid/Indica groups with specific strain labels in favor of extracted and recombined cannabinoids and terpenes (often from other sources) labeled things like “Calm”, “Lucid”, or “Energizing” is a good example of where commercialization is screwing things up. That may be more consumer friendly for casual recreational dabblers, but so far I find vaporized flower and whole plant extracts for edibles to be the best medicinally and I suppose recreationally too.

 

[terpojones35]

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned nostalgia:

“There’s nothing like picking up a much needed eighth of some gas for $25 from the plug, and there’s nothing like the wonder that comes with having to learn about your grass over time. Nothing like the experience.”

That is a certain unique experience that I’m sure has its own charms and advantages, I’ve just never experienced them completely. I did start off at a Farmer’s Market instead of a dispensary, and I think I get at least some of the flavor though.

It sucks that I was brainwashed and part of the group who vilified all of you until about 10 years ago, and that it still took me another 5 years to come around to trying it once I found that other medication wasn’t good enough or safe enough to address my needs in a way I was comfortable with.

I can’t say I’ve ever been a real part of that culture outside of here, but I do give it a lot of credit now and I get where you’re coming from. The people who risked everything for either medication or just the recreational love of the plant are largely being sidelined along with a rich and interesting underground culture with a long history in favor of large corporate interests and annoying sterilization and homogenization, like just about everything else today.

I think the trend toward dropping Sativa/Hybrid/Indica groups with specific strain labels in favor of extracted and recombined cannabinoids and terpenes (often from other sources) labeled things like “Calm”, “Lucid”, or “Energizing” is a good example of where commercialization is screwing things up. That may be more consumer friendly for casual recreational dabblers, but so far I find vaporized flower and whole plant extracts for edibles to be the best medicinally and I suppose recreationally too.

Regardless of where you found it, what you you thought before you found it, and when in your life you found it, you found it and that’s enough for me. If you smoke out of love for it, wether medical or recreational, you are the culture itself. If you use honestly, you’re the reason weed keeps moving.
And as far as the sterilization and manipulation of cannabinoids, I’m right there with you. I couldn’t have said it better myself. You wrote that out wonderfully and all I can say is I agree.

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

There is always gona be folk who are in it for the hype.

Others who are in it for real, for the love.

 

[Baron23]

If you want to really, really, really fuck something up....like fuck it up to the point that everybody is , then give the job to the government and open the

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

What mechanisms do or don't need to be in place to ensure safe, fair priced product.

Who should be entrusted/responsible for testing and to take care of cowboy operators small or large who put profit before health, or who try to leverage unfair prices.

 

[terpojones35]

If you want to really, really, really fuck something up....like fuck it up to the point that everybody is , then give the job to the government and open the

1UP to you man, I cannot disagree at all with what you just said. I would rather it be 1 of 2 ways. Either it’s completely legal with absolutely no restriction and free sale practices or it’s a black market product. The minute you get the government involved, sketchy shit starts happening and we end up with what the fella a couple posts up there said not too long ago. We get weird concoctions of terpenes and cannabinoids sprayed on generic hemp with terms like “bliss” or even “sleepytime” to describe the effects.

 

[Tranquility]

What mechanisms do or don't need to be in place to ensure safe, fair priced product.

Who should be entrusted/responsible for testing and to take care of cowboy operators small or large who put profit before health, or who try to leverage unfair prices.

Many believe the Free Market "solves" the problems. People can buy what they want from where they want to. The sellers make a claim and the buyers give up the price they want to pay. Remember, this buying and selling of weed without governmental involvement (other than to prohibit it) has been going on for a very long time and has resulted in...how many deaths do we have from tainted weed again?

If a person is sensitive to "safe" (Whatever that means. Everything is risk mitigation. "Safe" is where the person taking the risk draws the line.), he can go to sellers that tout well-tested and stored product--and accept it will cost a bit more. If YOU want a cartridge that is tested and certified and costs $80, is the person who buys an untested cartridge for $40 wrong? Perhaps we might do just fine if each person makes up his own mind about the price versus safety decisions rather than get the government involved.

(Food Pyramid anyone?)

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

Completely legal and deregulated cannabis market sounds dreamy.

Can't imagine that as a possibility here in NZ.

From a selfish stand point, i would be happy with a government regulated market, as long as there was provision for the home grower to provide for their own needs, much like tobacco or home kill meat is treated here.

Grow your own, use your own, so to speak.

Take the time, do for yourself, know what your getting and save some money, or trade your money for goods already produced.

Anyone up for cheap Chinese cannabis imports.

Hehe.... just jokes

 

[Polarbearboy]

For the last couple of years I've been buying mostly from licensed medical grower/sellers in Maine and also vaping stuff meticulously grown by a friend in 6-plant Massachusetts. The Maine medical growers are mostly one person operations, growing the weed in their homes or small greenhouses. Nice stuff and nice variety including GSC, various Kushes, Green Crack, etc. Then last week I headed up to my place in northern Canada and stopped at the CannabisNB store in Sussex, New Brunswick. Bought three 1/8s--Kosher Kush, Quadra, and Galiano--and a little THC spray. The buds on the 1/8s are twice or even three times the size and twice the density(resin!!!!!!) of the Maine caregivers' weed. I like seeing the THC and CDB content on the label. It feels twice or more stronger. This is the plus of commercial growing--the stuff is grown to the max and fabulously delicious and strong.

 

[daoist]

I am not to sure if the government should do it, but i am all for regulation and quality control.
In Holland there is no regulation because it is illegal and a simple thing like the amount and/or percentage of THC on edibles or flower would already be an improvement. If it shows the terpenes or how low the amount of contaminents is on the label that would be even better.

In holland the government are starting a "test" project in holland where shops can buy cannabis from a government controlled grower.
They really like to reinvent the wheel here. They have their head up their ass so much they don't even know Canada is doing that for years already.

 

[Polarbearboy]

Over the last year I've gotten heavily into concentrates along with bud, and also like edibles occasionally. I've gone shopping at the big adult dispensaries in Mass and at the even newer dispensaries in Maine. I'd shopped up in Canada, where I own a home, and there was phenomenal variety, but I haven't been able to get up there since Covid. Its really just amazing walking into a shop that has 10 or 12 varieties of flower and 15 different kinds of concentrates. Everything in both states and Canada is minutely tested for contaminants, THC, CBD, and in Mass, terpenes. You can choose shatter, sauce, crystals, resin, etc. And that's without even getting into all the cartridges, some stores carrying two or three dozen varieties of the carts. You can select by THC content, sativa or indica, and amounts. I like buying 1/2 grams of various shatters, resins, etc., 1 gm pre-rolls of bud just to try new stuff. And as more stores open the price is dropping. A year ago concentrates were $60-75 for a gram; now you can get a gram of decent stuff for $25-35, though the top shelf stuff is still pricy. What all this means is that I keep a little box with five or six different concentrates and three varieties of bud in a cool dark dry place for daily use. I just couldn't have imagined this two years ago after fifty plus years of doping. I sometimes get a bit frustrated that I can't vape it all fast enough so that I can go out and try some new dispensary or variety.

 

[Bologna]

(Against it!)

Over the last year I've gotten heavily into concentrates along with bud, and also like edibles occasionally. I've gone shopping at the big adult dispensaries in Mass and at the even newer dispensaries in Maine. I'd shopped up in Canada, where I own a home, and there was phenomenal variety, but I haven't been able to get up there since Covid. Its really just amazing walking into a shop that has 10 or 12 varieties of flower and 15 different kinds of concentrates. Everything in both states and Canada is minutely tested for contaminants, THC, CBD, and in Mass, terpenes. You can choose shatter, sauce, crystals, resin, etc. And that's without even getting into all the cartridges, some stores carrying two or three dozen varieties of the carts. You can select by THC content, sativa or indica, and amounts. I like buying 1/2 grams of various shatters, resins, etc., 1 gm pre-rolls of bud just to try new stuff. And as more stores open the price is dropping. A year ago concentrates were $60-75 for a gram; now you can get a gram of decent stuff for $25-35, though the top shelf stuff is still pricy. What all this means is that I keep a little box with five or six different concentrates and three varieties of bud in a cool dark dry place for daily use. I just couldn't have imagined this two years ago after fifty plus years of doping. I sometimes get a bit frustrated that I can't vape it all fast enough so that I can go out and try some new dispensary or variety.

Yo, this is my Caregiver up there (I'm in MA, too) and has been for awhile... Super cool guy with great products and prices but you need a MMJ card:

FLOWER | TopShelf Care

www.topshelfcare207.com

He's carrying Hazy Hill Farm now, too, one of Maine's top "craft" producers!!!!


(the GIFt that keeps on giving!!)

 

[Polarbearboy]

I've shopped at two of the new adult rec stores in Maine and both places weren't busy. I talked to the owner at the new shop in Poland, and he said after seeing the long lines at the nearest Mass adult stores, that he thought business would boom. But it isn't. Meanwhile there are medical mj shops everywhere, three in the little Maine town nearest my northern NH home. I think Maine has made getting a medical card so easy--my finger hurts!--that they've sapped the market for adult recreational. I notice that medical mj stuff is almost amazingly cheap--lots of $25 gms of concentrates and $20 1/8s of flower. There are all these on-line med card doctors now too. Sadly the NH med card law is extremely strict and none of the on-line places will give cards to anyone with an NH address. Pisses me off as I can't buy stuff in those nearby stores.

 

[Bologna]

@Polarbearboy, actually man, MOST stuff in ME, in storefronts and stocked by caregivers is NOT tested (like almost ALL, except maybe a few "big boys" and couple of smaller ones with a serious focus on the actual medical.) Everything (legal) from MA dispensaries is, which is one of the main reasons for the price dif... Sorry, btw, I assumed you were in MA... Yeah, I heard NH is tough... buy a shack in ME!

 

[Farid]

I'm from MA, and I will never use anything from the disps here. So many dunk their buds in hydrogen peroxide to get them to pass the extremely strict requirements about contamination.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there absolutely should be regulations that stop people from selling moldy bud. But we also have to remember that all plants grown in living soil have some good bacteria and fungi. In MA the restrictions are so tight that even good buds are treated with H2O2 to get them to pass, which is a shame.

Glad we can grow our own though, so I can't really complain. But I will never buy from a MA dispensary again.

To tie this back into the topic at hand, I fear the government does not understand the nuances of this market enough to write laws that leave enough room for quality while also ensuring clean meds. After all we don't all want bud grown in a sterile clean room like environment.

I'm not someone who thinks the government fucks everything up. I'm a big supporter of public infrastructure, healthcare, and education: areas in which the government has experience. I also think that in order for craft industries (like cannabis, good alcohol, craft foods) to thrive the bar to entry needs to be low. Here in MA the doors are only open to those who can put huge amounts of money up front, effectively closing the door to some of the best growers.

This also has the effect of corproatizing the industry, since often the people who open dispensaries have no background or experience in cannabis and are just in it for the money. This results in people prioritizing making money over making high quality products. You can see this in how so much effort and money is put into packaging and branding while the actual product is overpriced mids. Practices like harvesting too early, packing as many plants as possible into too small an area, and spraying with H2O2 as a standard are done to maximize profits and reduce losses to disease. Growing too densely results in mold, but maximizes yield, then treating with H2O2 kills the mold so it can pass testing. Sad state of affairs.

 

[LooseCucumber]

MA industry is crap. I'm convinced they're price fixing no way an 1/8th should cost $55 before tax, even with strict testing. The quality is average, often surpassed by ME and RI offerings. As the poster above has stated, the Gov't doesn't understand the industry well enough to properly regulate it.

 

[vaporoufixtras]

We are dealing with a plant here, not a rare and difficult to source material. And “their cut”? The reason they’re getting a cut at all is because they ran out of valid ways to make money so they turn to drugs. Marijuana is a plant, and in natural abundance it should be cheap. The stigmatized view of marijuana is the governments creation and it’s the exact reason it’s to be expensive today. I can buy a few ears of corn and some potatoes for less than 5 dollars and have myself a full dinner for extremely cheap., but marijuana? Hell no! Something that grows more easily and freely than most commercial food crops should definitely cost $60 for an 8th of an ounce. Makes a whole lot of sense. Safety and labeling also needs to be top priority because so many people have been dying from smoking marijuana lately. Last week on the news I saw a report where 4 friends hit a bong and 3 of them died with one left paralyzed. Like come on guys.

Government's gonna government, so as long as something is sold and bought they're gonna want their cut. And that's how it should be, at least in theory, because you need public spending for things like roads, schools, hospitals (at least in europe). And the military, don't forget that.
But the increase in price is insane. I mean tax the fucking thing, that's 20% - not 200% or 300%. But what's happening is big business wants to take advantage of this sector too. I feel that they're trying to gentrify weed.
Being from Greece legalization may be further off, but I fear for the precedent that's being set.