getting a medical card and its long term consequences

[mistadontplay]

I own two firearms and I am licensed and I don't remember any questions on any form that would deny me a license if I was a medical marijuana patient nor have I ever been denied a license.

I do have a card from my doctor stating that I am a medical marijuana patient but I have never applied for a State card. Maybe that's the difference.

now that might be it. are you a concealed carry permit holder? after talking to my boy again i think that is what it applies to. but he did say on the form it is about something with drugs, i have only purcahsed firearms thru private sales ill pull up the form in VA and go over it again but we talked about this at work for hours i couldnt believe what he was saying

 

[mistadontplay]

this is question #9 on the firearm form for Virginia. If any other firearm owners can speak on this please do.

1. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any controlled substance? The Federal Gun Control Act defines an addicted person, or unlawful user, as a person who has a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year.

 

[mistadontplay]

now after talking with my pop he says that the Gov't cannot say that since it is for medical use. any thoughts? comments? facts?

Listen brother,

As I firearm owner and a person who enjoys the good green herbs. It is my duty as a responsible gun owner to know and understand the laws pertaining to firearms. I have never once heard of MMJ patients not being able to own a firearm. While I am not a MMJ patient I dont even live in herb friendly state. I strongly urge you to post a source because I haven't been able to find anything about this.

Till then I'll keep my vape on, my business to myself, and my mags loaded.

Brother I am telling you I agree with you 100%. I posted from the VA State police site what it has on the form. What I also know VA is not a herb friendly state and never will be. I live in DC where the gun laws are so strict you might as well just own an illegal firearm. The person I had the convo with is far from ignorant about laws and gun laws and he claims he quit smoking because of the conflict. So maybe its just VA but he said its a federal law. I would like someone who has a CCW and also a Med Card to speak on this.

 

[lwien]

this is question #9 on the firearm form for Virginia. If any other firearm owners can speak on this please do.

1. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any controlled substance? The Federal Gun Control Act defines an addicted person, or unlawful user, as a person who has a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year.

No such question on the California application.

 

[mistadontplay]

No such question on the California application.

Ok, I also know Cali has strict gun laws as well correct? it may be a state to state thing and he was wrong about the federal law. i jsut want clarity because you should not have to give up your right to bear arms just because you need a certain type of medication

 

[lwien]

Ok, I also know Cali has strict gun laws as well correct? it may be a state to state thing and he was wrong about the federal law. i jsut want clarity because you should not have to give up your right to bear arms just because you need a certain type of medication

I agree and for me, I didn't have to give up my right to either bear arms or my access to MJ.

Mistadontplay, I totally understand that you are now trying to get clarification on all this, but a few posts back, you made the blanket statement of, "you cannot own a firearm legally with a med card" and when I questioned that, you came back with "you must have never applied for a firearm", which I have and the application was accepted.

Just a suggestion. Before you make a general statement of truth, it's best to do your research beforehand and make sure that what you are saying is in fact true and that when someone challenges your statement, not to come back an "obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about because if you actually DID apply for a firearm, you would know", but rather, "Hmmmm.........maybe I'm wrong. Gotta check it out a bit further".

There could very well be some confusion going on with all this simply because medical mj, while legal in some states is still not legal on a federal level, but to generally state that you cannot legally own a firearm and have legal state access to MJ at the same time, is just not true.

 

[mistadontplay]

I made the statement assuming all firearm apps were the same tho. sorry if i offended you. I have only dealt with ones in VA and MD for out of state permits which do question the use of drugs. At the same time it would not suprise me if you couldnt own one with the other.

So do you have a med card and a CCW? have you purchased firearms after the fact of you getting a med card or what?

 

[lwien]

I do not have a concealed carry permit. And yes, I purchased a firearm after getting my MJ med prescription.

And no, I was not offended, but it's rather about me having a sincere desire that people on this site get the truth about MMJ and all that it entails.

The fact is, is that State laws vary significantly in their form, content, and level of restriction in regards to firearms so your initial statement just isn't true for everyone. It may be true for some, however.

 

[goatgobaahh]

1. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any controlled substance? The Federal Gun Control Act defines an addicted person, or unlawful user, as a person who has a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year.

I dont want to dog pile on you mistadontplay, but there are very few things that are precious to me. My right to bear arms and Mary Jane are on that short list.

If you have a MMJ card you are using Marijuana Lawfully at the state level. Since states/cities are in charge of issuing permits (concealed carry..Class III...etc) I dont see how it can be seen as "unlawfully" using a controlled substance when the state gave you the MMJ card and also happens to distributes permits for firearms? The same issuing authority would contradict its own laws?

It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but it seems highly unlikely.

Then again the government tends to contradict its self in worse ways and more often than I like to acknowledge.

 

[mistadontplay]

I dont want to dog pile on you mistadontplay, but there are very few things that are precious to me. My right to bear arms and Mary Jane are on that short list.

If you have a MMJ card you are using Marijuana Lawfully at the state level. Since states/cities are in charge of issuing permits (concealed carry..Class III...etc) I dont see how it can be seen as "unlawfully" using a controlled substance when the state gave you the MMJ card and also happens to distributes permits for firearms? The same issuing authority would contradict its own laws?

It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but it seems highly unlikely.

Then again the government tends to contradict its self in worse ways and more often than I like to acknowledge.

no keep the comments coming we need to know. the government does what they want though. I assume since you have a med card you are legally using it, but its the part of addiciton that comes into play. for instance. i take oxycodone for cancer pain which i will stop soon once the med card comes available. So am I addicted to oxy since i have to take it on a daily basis for pain? i do not think so but the government may say otherwise which is BS

 

[lwien]

The government would have to either prove that you are addicted, or they have to obtain such proof from another source, such as a doctor, a rehab facility, the courts, etc etc.

But again, in regards to licensing firearms, it varies by state, so I'm not quite sure what your concern is in regards to the federal government, unless of course, you were seeking employment from the federal government.

 

[mistadontplay]

thats what my pop was saying they can't just say or your addicted because you are RXed to take it everyday, but at the same time that does mean you need it and that is a form of addiction. Any other firearm owners that can shed some light on this?

 

[lwien]

thats what my pop was saying they can't just say or your addicted because you are RXed to take it everyday, but at the same time that does mean you need it and that is a form of addiction.

Just because you are RX'ed for a med that you need to take every day as prescribed by a doctor for an illness is NOT a form of addiction. You MAY be addicted, but then again, you may not be. Just because you take it everyday does not equate to an addiction.

But there you go again, mista. You are making a general statement that is again, not true, with the statement being, " but at the same time that does mean you need it and that is a form of addiction."

Again, I urge you that before you make blanket statements of truth, you do some research, and in this case, do your research on both addiction and gun laws and you would find more information on both of these topics by googling rather than doing your research here.

 

[mistadontplay]

Just because you are RX'ed for a med that you need to take every day as prescribed by a doctor for an illness is NOT a form of addiction. You MAY be addicted, but then again, you may not be. Just because you take it everyday does not equate to an addiction.

I agree, but does the government agree?

 

[lwien]

Achhh...............I'm done with this.

Bye..............................(poof)

 

[goatgobaahh]

Achhh...............I'm done with this.

Bye..............................(poof)

Haha Lwien you crack me up!
M

I agree, but does the government agree?

Mista what we are saying is in this community we value facts, sources, and clarity over everything else. Posting "blanket statements" such as the two Lwien kindly quoted is counter productive to the truth seeking environment we have here at FC.

The person who posts claims; has a responsibility to be able to back those claims up with solid proof, research, and presentation (the way its presented in a post).

We are politely suggesting (mind you its a suggestion you dont have do to anything of this) that if you would like to contribute to the FC culture. Maybe you could look into some research or past court cases that would support your claims.

You did cite question 9 on the VA forum which is a good start, but you posted no source (which means you could've made the whole thing up) making it invalid.

We aren't trying to put you down or make you feel bad. We are just gun owners who would like to know the truth.

This is just constructive criticism and generally the way things work around here. I have no ill will towards you and I look forward to you being a member of our community =)

Welcome brother!

 

[Fully Melted]

Please don't bother trying to get facts that affect your very freedom from people who get giggles out of punching you more than helping you. I guess this calls for bringing out the color yellow.....sigh. So here is a "do it yourself- click link and read" kit. Too much speculation going on.

Legally, you cannot purchase or transfer a gun in ANY state if you use marijuana. PER THE BATF

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf Section 11(e) <---- Read me
http://www.atf.gov/files/press/rele...all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf <---- Read me more

Since it's Federally illegal and it's the ATF asking the question, you *are* an unlawful user. There are no lawful marijuana users. This is what the courts agree to.
ALL DEALERS IN ALL STATES REQUIRE FILLING OUT A FEDERAL FORM ATF-4473. And it's even linked above for those who don't remember what they signed.

Just so you know, you won't get a CCW in California unless you blow your County Sheriff. They issue them only to lawyers, retired police, judges and those who transport large sums of cash or jewels as part of their work. Even then, most are denied. Only 7 permits were issued in Los Angeles county in 2012 (seven!) Basically everyone in California is denied, unlike many states where a concealed carry permit is automatically granted if no reason to deny it exists. if you don't qualify on a Federal ATF-4473, you don't qualify for any State CCW's either. Copy of a CCW application:
http://www.lasdhq.org/contact_us/inquiry/gen_pub_ccw_app.pdf
All this is online. Especially for Californians. But all States, medical or not, cannabis and guns are risky to even own. You never know when a local charge will become a federal one.

So before you put me on blast (I'm just going to ignore it) read the PDF links above, then click this link below and read NOT inhale what comes up. The ATF says "NO". And they published a notice to all gun dealers of this fact in 2011.

https://www.google.com/search?q=application+to+purchase+a+firearm+in+california+medical+marijuana

I've given you all you need to avoid the forum game playing and get the correct legal answer.

From my friends at NORML:
http://www.canorml.org/medical-marijuana/patients-guide-to-california-law

 

[lwien]

The following is a PDF of the application to get a firearm in California. No where on this form is it asking you for anything about medical marijuana use:

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/fireperm.pdf

And regarding restrictions for firearms permits here is the following and please notice, there is no reference to medical marijuana, but rather only a restriction based upon addiction :

• Any person who has a conviction for any misdemeanor listed in Penal Code section 12021(c)(1) or for any felony, or is addicted to the use of any narcotic drug, or has been held involuntarily as a danger to self or others pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code Section 8103 is prohibited from buying, owning, or possessing firearms. Various other prohibitions exist for mental conditions, domestic restraining/protective orders, conditions of probation, and offenses committed as a juvenile.
  PC Sections 12021 and 12021.1, Welfare and Institutions Code Sections 8100 - 8103)

And regarding the from of transaction that you linked, it also states the "illegal use" of marijuana and being that it is legal in many states, the issue of legality for firearms and marijuana use is just as cloudy as the legality of marijuana use by itself.

If you believe and are concerned that you are breaking the law by possessing a gun in California while at the same time being a medical marijuana user, than it would also be reasonable to be just as concerned about being a medical marijuana user regardless if you own a firearm or not, eh?

 

[Fully Melted]

Oh, no..... lol

At least read the very form you linked before posting it? You went fishing for bass and brought back a squirrel?

You do know the link you posted was the application for a Security Guard Card Endorsement to have a non-concealed firearms carry endorsement?
It's not an application to buy, transfer or own a gun at all. How odd... The form linked in my post above is the actual application form. You fill one out in every State to purchase, register a gun and to apply for a CCW permit.

And FEDERAL firearms LAW still is the law of the land when it comes to firearms. NOT STATE LAW. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH UPON A STAR. The ATF (the federal people who issued the registration and the permit say what I posted above). Pulling up a Security Guard Card Endorsement form that doesn't apply to issue at hand... And you know very well there is no such thing as "legal cannabis" to the Feds. Sometimes guesswork earns you a nod but usually it ends up with someone else going to jail.

Besides your viewpoint is askew from the reality of the law. You think because a State has Medical Marijuana, the FEDS honor that? There is no such thing as "Medical Marijuana" Federally. Nor is wishful thinking a defense in court.

Oh, did I mention the BATF says "NO" ?? (facepalm) Of course I did. You would think they would be the very ones who would know better that you or I? So READ ME FOR THE FIRST TIME: (pay attention to the note at the bottom as you seem to miss a lot of the important parts... like the purpose of the form you offered?) http://www.atf.gov/files/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf

All I'm saying is KNOW THE FACTS BEFORE YOU DECIDE ANY FEDERAL (or state) LAW IS WORTH BREAKING. And net forum guesses aren't usually a substitute for legal facts....even if they have a tasty cannabis coating.

Again, I urge you that before you make blanket statements of truth, you do some research, and in this case, do your research on both addiction and gun laws and you would find more information on both of these topics by googling rather than doing your research here.

I agree with you completely.

 

[exit]

It didn't seem like it was worth making a separate thread for this..

I live in a non medical state but I certainly vape for medical reasons. I'm going to be spending a week or two in SF soon and was wondering if I can just kind of "show up" at a dispensary and take care of my card matters? Or if it isn't just that simple.

I just want to buy for myself for the time i'm out there, and finally be able to try out the wonder that is PURE GOLD!

 

[Stu]

You'll need a California ID to get a recommendation in CA.