Gathering thoughts on a concept for a future vaporizer.

[kadjo]

The ritual element is what pulls the hobbyist and pro vapors. Im curious if there is a way to heat the cells in a box mod using a 510 coil base to build a heating chamber type set up. It seems that a chamber could be fashioned to be self contained and have a dispenser built in (pez-esque)( minimize hot plate injuries and make it more portable)

Down side is batteries but it could be part of a portable set up and have the hot plate at home.
Could home hot plate use induction heating to minimize the danger factor and increase use with other vapes?

Super heated ruby hash press and paper pods sound amazing!

 

[seriousTone]

@xtraclipsforxtrashit I'm working on a paper herb pod concept. It uses capsules made from paper, with extremely thin (almost cobweb like) paper screens glued directly to the capsules top and bottom with gum arabic (same glue used for rolling papers). The idea is to create a set of simple tools for both making and loading the capsules. I would supply the tool, and the paper in sheets. The ritual would essentially be like rolling a joint. The capsules would be disposable after use. They would be like little Keurig pods I'm imagining.

The downside to those tiny temp dials is that they're like $100. :/

And I'd love to make more pipe-shaped pieces in the future.

lmao wow, amazing. Well, you already know I'm in; cannot wait to see what this turns into.

Damn $100 kind of steep for that tiny dial, but just the type of thing I would spend my money on...

The ritual element is what pulls the hobbyist and pro vapors. Im curious if there is a way to heat the cells in a box mod using a 510 coil base to build a heating chamber type set up. It seems that a chamber could be fashioned to be self contained and have a dispenser built in (pez-esque)( minimize hot plate injuries and make it more portable)

Down side is batteries but it could be part of a portable set up and have the hot plate at home.
Could home hot plate use induction heating to minimize the danger factor and increase use with other vapes?

Super heated ruby hash press and paper pods sound amazing!

Yes, the ritual of this piece is going to be so crazy.

Idk, at that point I'd have a hard time imagining anything less than a portable heat box that looks similar to the Nomad but somehow heats the heat block batteries and keeps them at temp...but could also be used as a handwarmer as well.


EDIT: But the more I think about it 500-600 degree and heavyish weights falling onto ourselves or others is a scary thought.

EDIT EDIT: But the more I think about it, fuck it this is vape connoisseurship at it's finest. You basically bring fine art to the vaping world.

We should be grateful to burn ourselves for the opportunity to partake in a ritual such as this would provide.

I think it's an awesome and one of a kind idea with your aesthetic and worthy of looking into further.

 

[Ramahs]

 

[coolbreeze]

I wonder if a little tea-light or alcohol lamp stove could maintain the heat after the initial warming on the stove or hotplate?

 

[cx714]

Don’t have much to add, but I like the idea of a “battery box,” kind of like the ones for Airpods. Just a little box (meticulously designed and aesthetically near perfect with just a hint of wabi-sabi) with slots for two batteries. Charger/case in one.

Maybe calibrate a VVPS to deliver certain temp ranges for the unobtainium batteries?

The ritual would be off the charts.

 

[KeroZen]

(me trying to reach the couch with the hot batteries)

 

[Vaporware]

(me trying to reach the couch with the hot batteries)

Damn, I guess you’re planning for some big bowls!?

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@Dan Morrison Here is the first ever stove top vaporizer .

Glass Stove top vape​

Glass Vape Aromatherapy Device

I kind of like the idea. I use from time to time a solder pot to heat my quartz banger,works pretty good.

Also i recently aquired this buddy https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/wand-vape-a-mechanical-vaporizer-by-black-leaf.52572/
and it works very good heated via stove top on 7.

 

[Farid]

What I really like about this idea is the ability to always have heat on demand, and the ability to take back to back hits without lag time just by swapping battery blocks.

This got me thinking about another way of using something like this. What if you use the hot plate for your initial heatup, then use a torch to "recharge" the battery for your subsequent hits. This would allow you to pass the pipe around without having to fumble with a hot battery - especially useful if sharing. If you pack a new bowl, or if you wait too long between hits, you would start with a new battery off the hot plate.

The cool thing about this is that the subsequent torch heatings would be relatively quick, and would allow you to push to temperatures a little higher than your initial heat up temp.

 

[GoldenBud]

@Dan Morrison Here is the first ever stove top vaporizer .

Glass Stove top vape​

Glass Vape Aromatherapy Device

I kind of like the idea. I use from time to time a solder pot to heat my quartz banger,works pretty good.

Also i recently aquired this buddy https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/wand-vape-a-mechanical-vaporizer-by-black-leaf.52572/
and it works very good heated via stove top on 7.

real HSA heater... all glass.. so tempting

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

real HSA heater... all glass.. so tempting

225 for heater + bowl though, but i have also dreamed of owning one . Not saying its overly expensive ,but one drop and its done . Definetly not fit for my budget.
""This Is an all glass delivery unit.. and thus Not designed for the super clumsy or unaware.""

 

[Dan Morrison]

Thanks everyone for the comments! This thread has really helped me tease out this idea. I think this idea is destined for the garbage bin, and here's why...

The more I look around, the more I realize that there are only a handful of suitable hotplates and hotplate-like burners available globally that really suit the requirements. And to be honest, only like...a few of them are aesthetically in-line with my vision for this. I think it might be too much to ask for people to put in the work of sourcing their own hotplates, and it could just become incredibly annoying.

So, that kills the versatility aspect I was excited about.. and without that...well there isn't much left to get excited about.

Originally I was thinking that the heat batteries where the "heart" of this project, but I actually think it might be the heat source. The heat (or energy) source is THE problem to solve for pretty much any vaporizer out there. The heater itself can actually be extremely simple, or even crude, and it can still work amazingly well.... given a good heat source.

I think this project was also trying to satisfy this urge in me for a vape design that combined the best qualities of desktops and portables. I'm always hunting for that vape design that does it all. Does it exist? I don't know...

______________

Perhaps time for a new idea.

 

[KeroZen]

While not entirely on topic, I watched this video the other day (I recommend playing it at x1.5 speed) and if you do you'll see a parallel with what this thread is about.

I guess the "tl/dw" version would be: induction could be the key for multiple reasons. But then why not just heat the reservoir part of the "pipe" and not mess with burning hot pancakes? And then we're back to Dynavap x Induction heater territory (albeit Dynavap has a lot of conduction, maybe with a bigger source true convection could be achieved here?)

 

[Vaporware]

If you don’t want to pursue this one, I get it. You have valid points there for sure.

I do think that it’s possible to make something pretty cool out of this idea, but I also think there are a lot of other things you could do that would be at least as interesting. Whatever you decide to try in the future, I’m interested!

I did like that you were working the pipes back in, so I hope you do some more in that direction at some point!

 

[Farid]

@Dan Morrison have you ever thought about building your own butane lighters? The difficult to make parts like the filling valve and venturi nozzles could be purchased OEM. You could start just by reverse engineering existing torches. There is a big market beyond vapes for really high end and artistically designed torches. Cigar smokers for instance, and the EDC folks.

I would pay good money for a torch that was user serviceable. One where I could easily replace individual parts rather than toss the whole thing when one piece goes bad. Of course your artistic style would be the most appealing part.

 

[seriousTone]

Damn!!

I did like that you were working the pipes back in, so I hope you do some more in that direction at some point!

I hope that part stays as well.

 

[Dan Morrison]

@KeroZen I love that guys videos, I watch every one, I totally get ideas from them!

And I agree, I also end up at the dyna x induction as being the end of that path of thinking. I think induction is a good source of power for conduction heaters in portable devices. With mains power, an induction base could definitely heat up a convection heater super quickly. The heater would then be removed from the induction coil during operation. I think that would be a pretty cool desktop idea.

But, I'm definitely more into the idea of a portable. I tend to like the freedom of movement around the house, in the shop, on hikes...etc.. So that's what I am naturally drawn to. To be exclusively plug-in power... not sure if I'm there yet.

For a heater to be compatible with a bunch of different pipe designs, it has to be some sort of wand. I've always liked the idea of making a wand style vape... and all this has reminded me why.

Obviously there is a wand vape boom right now, all coil driven. So I think the plug-in crowd has a ton of great options right now.

So, I wonder if there is a place for a portable wand, to be used with pipe style creations.

Here's a few ideas I've had kicking around for wands,

1. Analog 18650 powered wand that looks like a fondue stick. Uses the same heater technology as my Nomad/Toad. The 18650 is in the wooden handle.

2. Externally powered wand, same shape as the fondue stick. This is very similar to my original "heat battery" concept, except the addition of a wand handle would allow for the inclusion of a temperature gauge housed inside of the handle. It could be fully mechanical, with a bimetallic coil and analog temperature gauge dial in the butt of the handle, or it could be electronic with a LCD temp readout on the side of the handle. Each version could house the temperature sensing bit directly connected to the heater at the tip of the wand. This would allow accurate torch heating, and safer handling of the hot bit. The downside of this idea is the need for that external heat source.... but with the inclusion of the temp sensor the options are far greater.

3. All-in-one butane powered wand. Same fondue stick shape. Butane housed in the handle, torch tip extends out and heats the tip of the wand which is also the heater. This is the same design as those butane powered soldering irons. I'm not too keen on designing this, as I think there will be a lot of issues with user interface and the flame consistency, heat management, etc...etc.. Seems like a lot to pack into a small package. For something this size, 18650 powered is far better I think.

4. External butane canister powered wand. You guessed it, same fondue stick shape. But instead of housing the butane and gas control in the handle, you have an external bottle. Small camping butane canisters with a gas regulator and very flexible, thin, gas hose would be the way to go. The wand would merely be a torch handle with integrated heater. This would allow the wand itself to be quite small and nimble. This idea is a bit out there, but could provide desktop-grade wand power in a more portable package. I think the whole thing could pack down quite small for backpack carry, but definitely not pocket or jacket pocket carry.

I know I said that the plug-in crowd is set.... but, there are a couple variations that might interests me...

5. This idea is insane, and a safety hazard, haha, but I like the idea of a 115v mains powered unregulated wand. Literally plug into the wall, with all 115v going directly through the heater. It would essentially be the same tech as my Nomad/Toads, but the heater could be incredibly beefy. It would be on-demand heating, so... push the button the heater turns on, let it go, heater turns off. They make soldering irons that are essentially this exactly... so I know it can be done safely... just not sure I want to be responsible for making something like that, haha! A cool bonus to this idea is that you could use some high quality cord, vintage-style braided cords...etc.. and make the whole thing look super analog.

6. Building off that idea... to make things a bit safer, You could have a box with a few electrical sockets, essentially a nice look power bar... and you plug the wand handle directly into the socket. The wand heats up, using 115v to power a super beefy heater... something like 500watts... and when the wand is up to temp, you remove the wand from the base and use the stored heat.

@Farid , I looked into it a few years ago, seems like it would be very difficult to improve on what's already out there. Take a look at the Orca Butane torch. That is essentially the torch I would want for myself. Add a wood shell to the handle and it would be dope AF.

 

[Cheebsy]

and when the wand is up to temp, you remove the wand from the base and use the stored heat.

You're exactly describing @invertedisdead electric sand castle vapor wand!

Fwiw I love the idea of a wireless desktop, especially if it's all glass, and I keep asking him to make it!

 

[Dan Morrison]

@Cheebsy Oh man! I had read through @invertedisdead SCVW thread a few times, really loved it!.... but missed the part where he was developing a PID controlled heater for it. Very cool idea. Sounds like he is looking to put the actual heating element into the stationary base, where as my above proposal was to use the base as a power plug, with the heating element in the wand. Of those two ideas, I think his is the better one, haha.

I think that a lot of different makers are converging on slightly similar ideas right now (and over the last year)... I think that as vaporizer tech matures, certain techniques and designs will start to emerge that just feel right. It seems like we are entering that zone now. When you can clear a herb chamber in one or two hits with these huge desktop heaters... you've pretty much reached peak capacity for what the flower and your lungs will allow. Figuring out how to package it all up in an easy to use solution that looks nice and is economical to produce/purchase is the tricky part.

 

[Vaporware]

1. Analog 18650 powered wand that looks like a fondue stick. Uses the same heater technology as my Nomad/Toad. The 18650 is in the wooden handle.

When I read this I was literally working on exactly this idea in Fusion 360. I picked up my phone to find pictures of the heater in the Nomad thread, and I looked at this thread first.

I’ve actually been thinking about sending you that idea for a while, I just thought it might be better to show you a mock-up design than just to try to explain it. This thread pushed me to start working on the mock-up, and I almost mentioned it in my last message when you said you didn’t want to pursue the other idea.

Maybe it’s not necessary now, but if I do more with that design I’ll still send it to you.

Otherwise, here are a few features I was thinking about including:

1. For use with the pipes you drew above the heater could be bare or have a heat shield that would go around the glass.

This could also be used with a stem like the Nomad/Toad.

2. For other bowls, a swappable shield with a tapered outside would let it fit a lot of different bowls. Getting a good seal might be harder though, unless the outer rim had a cover with some give (silicone for example) to seal it better.

If it’s the same inner diameter as the part that connects the heater to the battery (assuming they’re separable parts), flipping the heater and shield and putting them on the battery upside down would be an option for locking it.

3. I thought about different ways of turning the heater on, and while buttons and switches are decent options (maybe a button on the end you could twist to lock?) I think just pushing the battery down and maybe having the option to twist to lock it on while in use would be nice?

Unless it always unlocked when you lifted it though, people might accidentally leave it on…

4. It may require too many moving parts to have an adjustable angle for the heater, but it shouldn’t be too hard to do a straight version of the heater housing and one with with an angle maybe a bit past 90 degrees so it could be held comfortably on the side while keeping the heater straight up and down.

A configuration that didn’t put the bottom of the heater up against the battery compartment could also be a good platform for the open back concentrate heaters you’ve talked about.

5. If you made the heater and battery separate parts you could remove the battery for the last part of the draw, or with alternative heater designs possibly even remove the heater from the battery before the draw.

That’s probably enough to load you up with on that idea for one message.

Back to the idea you started with here:

It actually could be usable heated by a torch or maybe even a battery.

I know not everyone loves the bimetallic discs used in VapCaps, but they do work pretty well and from what I’ve seen Dynavap’s patent only covers their use in caps.

At least the Anvil and maybe others are using the same method of temp indication, just putting the discs in the heater.

I think it would even be possible to make them click at different times in the design that started this thread.

 

[Dan Morrison]

@Vaporware Haha! Seems everyone is on the same page. I do like the 18650 wand idea.... before the Toad design came along, I was sketching a few wand ideas, here they are.

The idea to make the heater separate from the battery is an interesting one.

But with the heater on the end of the wand, I think it's just a more simple design and user experience, which I like.

When I mentioned the bimetallic thermometer, I should have clarified that I meant to mean, a helical coil, the same ones used for analog dial thermometers. This would actually give you an accurate degree readout on a dial face.

I like the wand... but if it's using the same heater that's inside the Nomad/Toad, I wonder if it's different enough. It basically gives you Nomad/Toad performance in a larger, two handed, package. The only upside is that you get to use a pipe shaped thing, and load herb into an upright chamber (which I really do like). I guess one last plus is that if the pipe bowl was glass, you can watch your herb vaporize... which I do find helps A LOT with unregulated heating.

But are those differences enough... hmm.

A Nomad or Toad could always be fitted with a longer pipe-like stem.. maybe that's enough to bring the pipe vibes back in.

 

[seriousTone]

I had an idea while laying in bed off @Vaporware 's post and come to post it and see your wand sketch post, @Dan Morrison - which has the exact lidded pipes I was thinking of...

I wonder if those sick lidded pipes couldn't just be modified to create a sick new, unique way of vaporizing.

I bet there could be two versions even.

One could be outfitting the lid with a way of holding the heatsink battery that could be heated up with a torch then lowered down over the herb chamber and pulling the heat through.

But BETTER yet, by combining the heat batteries, the wand and your plug in socket idea could somehow make it into a desktop as well...maybe.

Maybe the heatsink battery could be connected to the end of the wand which then plugs into the ultra analog power plug socket - you'd no doubt have to create - but by switching on it heats the battery on the end of the wand...

I don't know how temperature is measured or contained, bi metallic click, dial, maybe each wand and battery tuned to specific Temps? Maybe the power socket visibly tells you when the temp is achieved with a simple light.

But when you want to hit the pipe, the wand unplugs from the wire, to provide ease of use and you insert it into the herb chamber on the pipe and once again pull thr stored heat through.

Eh, it's late and I just wanted to quickly write that out before I no longer even remembered in the morning and hope it even makes sense.

But I don't really know shit

And maybe I'm just describing how normal wand vapes operate? I hope not, as I'm not very knowledgeable about them at all

 

[Farid]

I like idea #2 the most. A wand with a mechanical temperature gauge, which you heat with a tabletop butane burner. Idea #3 seems like it'd be even better, but when you consider that the vape is already something you'd use when sitting down, the necessity for the "all in one" package seems much lesser. Also, it would be much more difficult to fit the torch parts in the wand alongside the temp gauge. With idea #2 you'd have more space to make a very sleek design, and flex your artistic muscles.

I am not a fan of 18650s for a design like this mostly because of the limits on power. I hate having to swap batteries, and since this is more in the realm of a desktop I think you'd want to have more power at your fingertips.

 

[KeroZen]

More power could just mean 2 or 3 cells in series, or even using a Li-Po pouch. Or having a mains tethered base station...

I personally have strictly zero appeal anymore to play with fire like a caveman. I fucked combustion a while ago, so burning fossil fuels inside my house feels completely backwards to me...

I don't think anyone would really need more than 100W anyway, and with that much power all electronic on-demand vapes are truly on-demand. So apart from off-grid scenarios, I really don't see the advantage of using fire, unless one enjoys burning themselves from time to time... or if you miss soot and the obnoxious fumes!

PS: starting a flame-war on the subject of fire, does that count double for my trolling score?

 

[Dan Morrison]

I think I've finally come full circle... @KeroZen is right, battery power is pretty amazing. It only seems kinda lame because it's so common... but if I lived like 500 yrs ago, before the invention of the battery, if you told me you could store a bunch of energy in a tiny container.. to be released as heat energy whenever I wanted.. it would be like some legit magic.

More power could definitely come from more batteries.

I think 100w is PLENTY.