FlowerMate Vapormax V/V5.0/V5.0S/V5 Pro

[OF]

@OF , I notice people are talking of overcharging the new flowermate battery. This is not productive in a lithium ion battery. They cannot be overcharged like an old nicd battery. They have no memory so even if you could overcharge it, it wouldn't remember.

After the initial full charge and discharge it is healthier to keep your battery between 30 and 70 %. This is how to make a lion live longer. Not overcharging it. And don't worry about leaving it on all night. They can't overcharge.

It depends on what the definition of 'overcharge' is? You're right, from an Engineering POV routing charging to the top is a bad idea. Please notice, however, I'm very careful to say each time you do this one time only and before the first discharge? While I well understand the technical issues, I'm using 'overcharge' from the owner's perspective......something I hope you can understand? The idea is to charge longer than normal so that the 'trickle' (sometimes called 'feeler') current (the one that unlocks locked batteries.....which we know are really cells in this case) can fully form them.

If you're following my similar rants in other threads (no reason you should of course) you'll find this is a common theme with me. While I disagree with the 'keep it above 30%' idea since it's cycles that normally kill Li-ions and storage time past about 80% (not so much the fact you got there or Teslas would be killing their battery packs left and right?) is the real issue? You'll also find I'm against 'use while charging' partly because it encourages default full time charging to 100%.

In fact, I took this idea so far with Solo (later adapted to all similar vapes, including FM) I designed and built a series of 'gadgets' to automatically terminate charge early. Here's the current version:

The normal charger plugs in upper left, pressing the button lower right turns on the transistor upper right and starts charging. When the charge profile current (sensed by the resistors center top) reach the threshold set by the adjustment screw on the blue pot below the transistor the controller cuts the charge early (typically say 85%?) and beeps the beeper to alert the owner. This cuts about 25 minutes from each recharge as well. Not shown is the '12 to 5 Volt converter' to charge the Mini and other "USB rechargable vapes". The version for the larger FMs (the ones that use 9 Volts instead) use the gadget for the DV Ascent which has the converter 'built in' and uses the same connector:

The converter is the little switching supply below one of the prototype gadgets (notice perf board and different locations of key parts).

I sent out 8 (I think) copies for Beta Test, several of 'the usual suspects' still post about them from time to time, no complaints or negative feedback. Our own Pipes was even considering making them for us, but the advent of the Air (user changeable 18650) killed that idea.

I'll continue to recommend the routine I do now. "Overcharge" (from a user POV since it's not possible in the classic engineering sense) the first time only, then run charge down each cycle to near the limit (easy to do with the Pro with it's battery meter, otherwise count sessions?) and if possible stop subsequent (routine) recharges early. For instance with Solo, where we have seven steps to work with the advice reads 'run it down to no light (or maybe even (ONLY) one more session)'. There a wide safety margin in Solo, the 'last light' is like 3.4 Volts). And, since they don't have a gadget to do it, I recommend stopping the charge 'when the last light is lit but the charge light is still flashing when possible', typically about 4.0 Volts. This doubles or more the battery life. Some good discussion of the technology behind this in simple language meant for wide reading available here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Lots of other good battery info elsewhere at BU, if you don't know of them?

Regards.

Question on burnin's - sorry if it's been asked before.... Should you continually reheat or give it time to cool off in-between? Mouthpiece in or out?

I did mine back to back, no stem. I want it (and other vapes) as hot as possible. No stem increases the losses so the heater runs even harder.

OF

 

[kellya86]

I couldnt shake the robot fart smell after 3 battery cycles of burn offs with the mp in place. So i did another full battery on red with my eq on fan 1 blowing into the flowermate oven. An hour or so of this and my burnoff is done.

@OF I still disagree. Overcharging for the first time, or anytime is pointless. It will not enhance battery life or endurance, it is more likely to be detrimental to your battery in the long run.

I would not be advising people to overcharge, people know your smart and listen to you blindly. I feel you have not enough evidence to support your claim and could well be advising people to damage their batteries.

I have alot of respect for you OF, but I feel you should stop advising people to overcharge. At least until your are sure it won't caus damage. A lithium battery is a whole different thing to the old nickel metal hydride. The old rules don't apply.

I will research this more and find some evidence, I hope you do not take offense, like I said, I have respect for your knowledge.

 

[Canuck420]

I couldnt shake the robot fart smell after 3 battery cycles of burn offs with the mp in place. So i did another full battery on red with my eq on fan 1 blowing into the flowermate oven. An hour or so of this and my burnoff is done.

I've done 5 or 6 burn off's so far - robot fart smell is still there.... Did you blow the fan into the top chamber or through the bottom vent (assuming it's a mini)

 

[throwawaytre3s]

All this speak of batteries has me a little concerned for my flowermate. It's sitting back at my house while I'm off for college for the semester. I made sure to leave it at 3/4s battery (using the pro's battery indicator). It's only been a month, so I'm sure it'll be fine. I'll be home in just over a week for good this time, transferring colleges for another major that my current one doesn't offer. I can't wait.

 

[kellya86]

No bottom vent for me, I have a v5.0s.
No I just blew into the oven. Just sat it down with the eq whip about 5mm away from the flowermate oven opening, laying on its side. And kept pressing the button to keep it on red till the battery died.

It does take ages, I was convinced mine was faulty, but it will get there. I even put some herb in there and let it vape without me vaping it, jus to try to build some residue up. But I don't pay for my flowers, if I did I probably wouldn't waste them like that.


@throwawaytre3s , your battery will be fine. The only things that will damage your battery is being left completely dead and/or left in cold temps. 3/4 full is ideal amount of charge for storage. It's actually harmfull to fully charge a lion battery.

 

[Canuck420]

No bottom vent for me, I have a v5.0s.
No I just blew into the oven. Just sat it down with the eq whip about 5mm away from the flowermate oven opening, laying on its side. And kept pressing the button to keep it on red till the battery died.

It does take ages, I was convinced mine was faulty, but it will get there. I even put some herb in there and let it vape without me vaping it, jus to try to build some residue up. But I don't pay for my flowers, if I did I probably wouldn't waste them like that.

I see - is the idea of the fan to remove the vapour or to fool the thermostat into working the oven harder?

I'm not sure I have the patience.... Does kind of worry me about inhaling robot fart though - could be a carcinogen for all we know!

 

[kellya86]

The idea of the fan is simply increased air flow. This is what you need, air passing over the components and taking the volatiles away. Cooking the shit out of it doesn't work, you need air flow, I did 3 battery cycles of just burning on red, and it done nothing. One hour with the eq and it's sorted.

I did inhale some robot fart, made me gag. Was so foul. Hope I don't have cancer now.
Iv spent enough time jumping in skips full of asbestos and working for the us government with chemicals that ensured no one ever made it to retirement, that I think anything else is comparatively harmless.

 

[Canuck420]

The idea of the fan is simply increased air flow. This is what you need, air passing over the components and taking the volatiles away. Cooking the shit out of it doesn't work, you need air flow, I did 3 battery cycles of just burning on red, and it done nothing. One hour with the eq and it's sorted.

I did inhale some robot fart, made me gag. Was so foul. Hope I don't have cancer now.
Iv spent enough time jumping in skips full of asbestos and working for the us government with chemicals that ensured no one ever made it to retirement, that I think anything else is comparatively harmless.

I see - I don't think I have anything that could work as a fan, only a ceiling fan, I don't think that's going to work lol.....

Robot fart is pretty gnarly - I've taken a few sniffs of it whilst burning in to see if it's still there....

 

[kellya86]

Or just sit holding it tonight and keep blowing in it, that would do, but more of a pain in the arse. You just need soft air movement, stand it up on a table underneath your ceiling fan. Put your hand next to it. If you can feel air movement on you hand then that will do.

 

[KeroZen]

Blow in your damn mouthpiece then, that's what I did for mine.

Yes it takes ages, yes it will give you a slight headache from blowing continuously, but the smell will definitely go away. It's supposedly safe from what I read in that Kaptan product sheet (it's some silicone glue on the tape, similar to Scotch brand clear tape etc) but it reeks.

A lot of chinese vapes use this bloody polyimide tape for insulation and in some the heater is even built directly into it (resistive film) I think the tape itself is mostly smell free, it's just the glue to hold it rolled onto itself that is the problem.

 

[throwawaytre3s]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd be hesitant to blow air into my FM. It's designed to have air sucked through it, you know? Not pushed through. I mean I don't think it would hurt much, but still. Also for my burn offs, I ran it on 230° (have a pro) three times or so, until it went into standby. Then I hooked it up to my UFO and enjoyed a load, and I didn't taste anything weird. I think that first load accelerated clearing out the residues, the water probably filtered out a lot, but even if it didn't, hey? I'm alive. I've used it without the UFO or whip since then, and it tastes fine.

 

[Canuck420]

As the mini is vented in the bottom - blow through from the underside instead?

 

[OF]

All this speak of batteries has me a little concerned for my flowermate. It's sitting back at my house while I'm off for college for the semester. I made sure to leave it at 3/4s battery (using the pro's battery indicator).

You should be fine. Self discharge danger should be a year or so out. Temperature is important, IIRC leakage current doubles every 7 or 9 degrees C. IIRC the BU site has some good information on this.

My advice is to load it up and go. Then, after getting acquainted again, charge it. The protection cirucit will keep you from damaging it from using it with too low a battery.

I see - is the idea of the fan to remove the vapour or to fool the thermostat into working the oven harder?

I'm not sure I have the patience.... Does kind of worry me about inhaling robot fart though - could be a carcinogen for all we know!

No need to extract the fumes, the idea is to demand more power to maintain temperature.

I disagree, "for all we know" there are no carcinogens involved at all. Do you have any information to the contrary? Just the unknown, I think, and fearing the unknown has some merit.

Such off gassing health concerns are common on these Forums, across many makes, although IMO none have ever been shown? In a way at least part of this might be put in the 'crying wolf' category? That is downplaying the importance of proven risks.

Sensitivity to smells is very subjective, in laboratories some are like 1000 times more sensitive than others. "Threshold of Detection" numbers om MSDS sheets have this problem. If the smell bothers you, by all means deal with it. Be satisfied or send it back. Vapes should be enjoyed not stressed over. Also don't assume some other guys experience will match yours, nor expect the exact same model to out gas the same next time for you. I have two Minis, they were very different from each other in this respect. Likewise I saw this unit to unit difference also on Solo to a lesser extent. If someone will send me lots of new vapes for the effort I'll be happy to run a test.......

"Love it or loose it"????

As the mini is vented in the bottom - blow through from the underside instead?

IMO it doesn't matter, do whatever is easiest? Once evolved the gas can't get back into the game......it has to drift away and cause Global Warming or something else. You're looking for cold air flow, not venting.

OF

 

[kellya86]

@throwawaytre3s , I believe the pro is of different internal construction that possible avoids the tape. I'm not 100% sure. But I know people with the pro don't seem to have as much robot fart issues.

 

[OF]

@throwawaytre3s , I believe the pro is of different internal construction that possible avoids the tape. I'm not 100% sure. But I know people with the pro don't seem to have as much robot fart issues.

My particular one had very little/none. I suspect what I saw was skin oils or some other minor annoyance, not a 'problem component'.

Still, each guy should test his and burn off until he's satisfied?

OF

 

[Canuck420]

After doing a whole battery's worth of burn in whilst blowing through the bottom, the robot fart is still there - - probably not as strong, but it's there, I'll just have to see how it goes from here, perhaps the herb will mask it anyway.

I also got a free high from oxygen deprivation by blowing through it for an hour

 

[kellya86]

It definately helps once you start putting your flowers in it... it will sort itself, stick with it.

 

[Trev]

It definately helps once you start putting your flowers in it... it will sort itself, stick with it.

Exactly! I did 4 burn ins from full battery to totally dead and the smell was still slightly there. A few goes with herb in and the smell has completely gone.

 

[OF]

It definately helps once you start putting your flowers in it... it will sort itself, stick with it.

Exactly! I did 4 burn ins from full battery to totally dead and the smell was still slightly there. A few goes with herb in and the smell has completely gone.

While some will see this as one smell 'overpowering' or 'masking' the other, I think the major effect comes from condensate sealing the surfaces. Like plating or painting steel to keep the oxygen in the air from rusting it. Thus either trapping or forcing the evolved gas to 'go the other way out'. Whatever the reason, actually using it seems to resolve the last bits of issue?

OF

 

[Boosted Nano]

So gotta my flowermatev5.0s last week and damnn it works great! I did 3 or so burnoffs and then loaded it up and robot fart wasn't an issue really. One quick question, when you guys got your FM5s did it come with a screen at the bottom of the ceramic heating chamber? And if not, are you guys putting a screen they gave you in the bottom of the chamber? Just a little worried small crumbs n stuff could slip into the unit

 

[Stevenski]

@Boosted Nano I found a ceramic puck screen worked very well at the bottom of a load. I can't remember if it was 8 or 9mm but it was slightly bigger than the titanium ones i use for the mouthpiece that were 8mm.

 

[Boosted Nano]

@Stevenski so you recommend at least putting some kind of screen at the bottom of the chamber?

 

[OF]

So gotta my flowermatev5.0s last week and damnn it works great!

You got one of those too? They sure seem to be making a lot of them that work mighty well....... I hope they don't replace it with 'new improved versions'....... Thus far I'm still not a bit V3 fan, although I'm putting some serious hours on it. The mini (smaller) is calling me for stealth and run time (maybe twice?). And the V5.0 and Pro definitely have it covered with four times the battery. Solid products, IMO. Worth recommending.

OF

 

[Boosted Nano]

@OF yeah I was really surprised at the amount of vapor production, even on 385. I've only taken it to 400 once and I don't see a need really to use 415 unles you wanna Nuke it! Granted I haven't packed a full chamber yet but the smaller ones I was packing with a .1 or so we're still getting me 10-12 hits, so very impressed! Do you recommend a screen at the bottom of the chamber or does the empty bottom do good enough to not need one?

 

[OF]

@OF Do you recommend a screen at the bottom of the chamber or does the empty bottom do good enough to not need one?

I've no recommendation to make, therefore made none before. I'm usually not shy about such things when I think I have something useful to offer. No experience yet, or at least not enough to base it on. The only FM I have that came without an installed screen is my new Pro. I put a normal half inch SS screen in it out of habit. I have found no fouling issues or other reasons to mess with the factory screens in the other FM (and similar) vapes.

Hopefully someone with more experience/insights will have something useful to say on the topic?

OF