Florida med users...what are we going to do about HB 1455, a 10% THC cap?

[CrazyDiamond]

It has now passed two subcommittees, one more and I think it goes to the house floor. We need a resoundin NO vote from our representatives. Unfortunately, I cannot write or contact my rep about this because he is in bed with who I work for and they are all very conservative.

10% THC will do nothing for me. Mt PTSD will be hard to deal with again, so will my back pain, and so will my depression.

Please, if you all can, write to your reps and tell them to vote no. Back you claims with facts. There is a sort of template that one can use found here...
Template memo
Full text of the bill is here....HB1455

Discuss please....I think they need to stop fucking with things. I'm sure there are many vets in the same boat as me...I just wish I could contact my rep but I know I would lose my job.

 

[notams]

Sorry in advance for the long post. I read your post and it got me all worked up. I'm neutral in all political affairs and have no dog in this fight. But, it is interesting.

So, I found the specific language in PDF from the link above regarding the 10% potency max (not easy) on page 24, lines 584-592. Just one little obscure line buried in there. Unless it's in detail elsewhere. Anyhow, cut and pasted:

"A qualified physician may not issue a physician
certification for marijuana that has a tetrahydrocannabinol potency, by weight or volume, of greater than 10 percent for marijuana in a form for smoking or greater than 60 percent in the final product for all other forms of marijuana, excluding edibles."

As you know, the language of bills are very important. Nuances are not intended. This is direct and legal language. So, read it again very closely. Notice that THC concentration can be "...no greater than 60% in the final product for all other forms of marijuana, excluding edibles."

Well, thank your lucky stars that your "final product" is for VAPING. The 10% cap is specifically for "marijuana in a form for smoking". They said nothing about "flower". The mention here is specifically for "smoking". The clowns who wrote this created a loophole for dry herb vaping through their ignorance of the practice.

The 60% cap on "all other forms" is clearly intended to make concentrates equally as neutered as the flower and addresses (they think) vaping. Their ignorance of dry herb vaping is where you find your legal wiggle room. If you can get a licensed grower, doctor, dispenserary and all that stuff and just don't ever SMOKE it you can legally skirt this problem.

Just be sure to throw away any smoking paraphernalia and truly refrain from ALL smoking. Get a lawyer, draw up an affidavit attesting to the fact that you use your weed for vaping. Get a doctor on board with an affidavit attesting to his direction to vape flower for your specific condition. Don't wave a flag or draw attention, just quietly produce and consume real weed with documents sitting in a drawer should the need arise.

I'm not a lawyer. But, the bar I've been hanging out in for the past few hours had reruns of Matlock on the TV. The sound was off. But, I got the general idea of this lawyering thing. So, trust me: this is 100% solid legal advice. Ask the bartender.

This bill appears to me to be written with a ton of influence from big pharmaceutical. There's language earlier (I forget where) where edibles are capped at 10mg per serving with 200mg max per product. That's just ridiculous. I'm going in for a looong series of MRIs tomorrow (2.5 hours). My edible "dose" is 100mg two hours before and 100mg in the parking lot of the hospital minutes before going in the tube. 10mg doses aren't practical or logical.

I have a chocolate bar that is 1000mg with 10 doses. How do they justify a 10mg cap? WTF? There's gonna have to be a smart edible maker that makes pellet sized "doses" and you pop 10 in at a time and it's still a reasonable size. Do they seriously want someone eating 3 candy bars a day to get their meds? Idiots. There's also a cap of 2.5 ounces in any 35 day period for smoking. Huh?

Man, reading that PDF got my blood boiling. I need a few doses. It's so obviously an effort to destroy the industry. Assholes. I wish they'd realize they lost the war and. just. stop.

 

[Ramahs]

I hope you're right, @notams .

 

[CrazyDiamond]

That is the major problem....every container that I've gotten from the dispensary says smoke. John Morgan, who owns a huge law firm in Florida, and from what I understand has a stake in Trulieve, should be hammering on the state about this. That's another worrying sign, I've heard of no one challenging this. Ugh, damn politicians.

 

[invertedisdead]

This bill appears to me to be written with a ton of influence from big pharmaceutical. There's language earlier (I forget where) where edibles are capped at 10mg per serving with 200mg max per product. That's just ridiculous. I'm going in for a looong series of MRIs tomorrow (2.5 hours). My edible "dose" is 100mg two hours before and 100mg in the parking lot of the hospital minutes before going in the tube. 10mg doses aren't practical or logical.

This happened in California, recreational capped ours at 10mg with only 100mg per package. We used to be able to buy 1000mg stuff. It really fucked over people that depend on edibles, now it costs over $100 for what used to be $15-20.

Same way they practically got rid of ounces so you have to buy eight 3.5g jars to get an ounce of flower. Theres basically no price breaks on anything.

I find that this business model does not work at all for anyone who uses cannabis regularly, in fact it's an easy way to end up in the poor house.

 

[iammyself]

It has now passed two subcommittees, one more and I think it goes to the house floor. We need a resoundin NO vote from our representatives. Unfortunately, I cannot write or contact my rep about this because he is in bed with who I work for and they are all very conservative.

10% THC will do nothing for me. Mt PTSD will be hard to deal with again, so will my back pain, and so will my depression.

Please, if you all can, write to your reps and tell them to vote no. Back you claims with facts. There is a sort of template that one can use found here...
Template memo
Full text of the bill is here....HB1455

Discuss please....I think they need to stop fucking with things. I'm sure there are many vets in the same boat as me...I just wish I could contact my rep but I know I would lose my job.

I already contacted my reps in the House and Senate, as well as leaving a voicemail for the bill’s sponsor Spencer Roach requesting he reconsider. I doubt I’ll be heard, but maybe it’ll add up with everyone else.

Sorry in advance for the long post. I read your post and it got me all worked up. I'm neutral in all political affairs and have no dog in this fight. But, it is interesting.

So, I found the specific language in PDF from the link above regarding the 10% potency max (not easy) on page 24, lines 584-592. Just one little obscure line buried in there. Unless it's in detail elsewhere. Anyhow, cut and pasted:

"A qualified physician may not issue a physician
certification for marijuana that has a tetrahydrocannabinol potency, by weight or volume, of greater than 10 percent for marijuana in a form for smoking or greater than 60 percent in the final product for all other forms of marijuana, excluding edibles."

As you know, the language of bills are very important. Nuances are not intended. This is direct and legal language. So, read it again very closely. Notice that THC concentration can be "...no greater than 60% in the final product for all other forms of marijuana, excluding edibles."

Well, thank your lucky stars that your "final product" is for VAPING. The 10% cap is specifically for "marijuana in a form for smoking". They said nothing about "flower". The mention here is specifically for "smoking". The clowns who wrote this created a loophole for dry herb vaping through their ignorance of the practice.

The 60% cap on "all other forms" is clearly intended to make concentrates equally as neutered as the flower and addresses (they think) vaping. Their ignorance of dry herb vaping is where you find your legal wiggle room. If you can get a licensed grower, doctor, dispenserary and all that stuff and just don't ever SMOKE it you can legally skirt this problem.

Just be sure to throw away any smoking paraphernalia and truly refrain from ALL smoking. Get a lawyer, draw up an affidavit attesting to the fact that you use your weed for vaping. Get a doctor on board with an affidavit attesting to his direction to vape flower for your specific condition. Don't wave a flag or draw attention, just quietly produce and consume real weed with documents sitting in a drawer should the need arise.

I'm not a lawyer. But, the bar I've been hanging out in for the past few hours had reruns of Matlock on the TV. The sound was off. But, I got the general idea of this lawyering thing. So, trust me: this is 100% solid legal advice. Ask the bartender.

This bill appears to me to be written with a ton of influence from big pharmaceutical. There's language earlier (I forget where) where edibles are capped at 10mg per serving with 200mg max per product. That's just ridiculous. I'm going in for a looong series of MRIs tomorrow (2.5 hours). My edible "dose" is 100mg two hours before and 100mg in the parking lot of the hospital minutes before going in the tube. 10mg doses aren't practical or logical.

I have a chocolate bar that is 1000mg with 10 doses. How do they justify a 10mg cap? WTF? There's gonna have to be a smart edible maker that makes pellet sized "doses" and you pop 10 in at a time and it's still a reasonable size. Do they seriously want someone eating 3 candy bars a day to get their meds? Idiots. There's also a cap of 2.5 ounces in any 35 day period for smoking. Huh?

Man, reading that PDF got my blood boiling. I need a few doses. It's so obviously an effort to destroy the industry. Assholes. I wish they'd realize they lost the war and. just. stop.

The Florida medical program only allows you to buy flower for smoking, even if you vape it. They have routes of distribution that include inhalation (concentrates and carts), edibles (baked goods, chocolate bars, etc), oral (distillate syringes, THC pills, etc), topical, sublingual, and smoking (flower). The only way to get flower is to have it distributed under your smoking route.

 

[notams]

It always makes me equally happy and so sad to be reminded of the cannabis friendly environment in Colorado. I take it for granted so often. I'm so sorry you guys have to go through all this bullshit.

There may be less legal consequences or prosecution regarding cannabis. But "medical cannabis" is an oxymoron in the current legal / political / insurance / commercial / profit-driven medical world we live in.

 

[His_Highness]

I've done the email, called my rep and electronically signed a petition.

Some of these folks think CBD, that won't get you high, is all you need. It boggles my mind that some of the powers that be don't understand that in certain cases relief is dependent on THC and if they reduce the strength WE HAVE TO USE MORE.

Good luck to us all......

 

[CrazyDiamond]

Link to sign petition against HB 1455 below

No HB 1455

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Consider who you keep electing to be your state reps and governor, and QUIT VOTING FOR THOSE ASSHOLES. Seriously! They don't give a CRAP what "the people" want, you are kine for the killing. You will do as you are told and they will fix it so your vote never counts again.

CBD doesn't do shit for me. And the blue noses here in this legal-for-25-years state pushed it over and over again the first few years dispensaries were open here. Frankly I'm not sure it does anything much for anyone other than a handful of epileptics and cancer patients. It sure did nothing for me. Did not improve sleep. Did not help the pain. Nothing. Only normal THC products are useful to me. Those it helps, it helps a lot. That's just a minority of us using MMJ though.

How long has this nonsense in FL been going on now? Almost 10 years, it seems like? Maybe not quite that long but a long time. It's one step up and two steps back. We The People speak, and Rethuglican legislatures respond by overturning our voice, obstructing legislation we want, stealing our voting rights, and passing legislation to make ballot initiatives illegal.

VOTE THE CLUCKERS OUT!

 

[Tranquility]

As you know, the language of bills are very important. Nuances are not intended. This is direct and legal language. So, read it again very closely. Notice that THC concentration can be "...no greater than 60% in the final product for all other forms of marijuana, excluding edibles."

Well, thank your lucky stars that your "final product" is for VAPING. The 10% cap is specifically for "marijuana in a form for smoking". They said nothing about "flower". The mention here is specifically for "smoking". The clowns who wrote this created a loophole for dry herb vaping through their ignorance of the practice.

Love word games in relation to the law. But, the reason for the odd wording is to comport with previous statutes. (Regarding medical.) The legislature did not want to allow any smokeable marijuana in the original law. This BS was challenged by People United for Medical Marijuana. However, they lost. Their claim:

https://edca.1dca.org/DCADocs/2018/2206/182206_115_08062018_09324218_e.pdf

The (currently) final result:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

Here, after the panel's preliminary review of the wording of the Medical Marijuana Amendment and the statute prohibiting the use of medical marijuana in a smokable form, we conclude that Appellees have not sufficiently demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits as required to justify vacating the automatic stay.

The argument was made when the legislature had flower be illegal. Everyone knew what the law was and People United tried to fight it. I don't think the attempted distinction will be useful.

What you do find when you look further in the People United brief, was the legislative reasons for making it so. THAT is where the proposed statute might be fought in a legal and not just political level. The claim that vaping cannabis accomplishes the same goal as was desired under the original medical statute. (Regarding the negative health effects of SMOKING cannabis.) The problem is, while we have many studies suggesting vaping mitigates the risk and some good old common sense to say not taking in the CO, benzene and other contaminants from combustion is probably a good thing, once a statute goes into effect the presumption is it is valid and correct. You'd have to overcome that presumption to force an exception for cannabis in a smokeable form that is going to be used for vaping. While I think it True, I don't think the science supports that to a legal truth.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

I just sent Rep Roach a very long and detailed email about how the study is flawed and my anecdotal evidence of how it helps me...I ended it with...
I do expect a reply from you on this and if I don't, then I know you are just another politician who doesn't listen to the will of the people who put you in the position you are in and that you care NOTHING for veterans....and I doubt he will even read it. Maybe we should start a gofundme for ousting him and or the bill, lol.

 

[Tranquility]

Since I can no longer edit my posts (Probably from a previous observation.) I'll add this here. Apparently, vaping is legal as medical use in FL. (According to the above linked brief from People United):
Alternate Forms of Inhaled Medical Marijuana Are Available in Florida
Although marijuana “in a form for smoking” is excluded from the statutory definition of “medical use,” other alternate forms of inhaled medical marijuana are available in Florida. Specifically, there are presently “three (3) categories of medical marijuana products and/or delivery devices that involve the inhalation of medical marijuana: (1) nasal spray applications; (2) vaporization of ground flower; and (3) vaporization of oil.” R. 1622. Notably, Florida allows the vaping or vaporization of marijuana flower as a medical use, so long as the flower is in a sealed, tamper-proof receptacle. See § 381.986 (1)(j)2., Fla. Stat.; see also R. 1622. In that delivery system, the vaporization process heats the marijuana, but at a lower temperature than the incineration process for smoking. R. 429–30, 2085–86. Vaporization provides rapid THC absorption and THC concentrations that are similar to smoking marijuana, while reducing harmful constituents that are present in the smoking form of marijuana and removing the harm of second hand exposure to others. R. 429–30, 2085–86, 2110–12, 2118–19, 2142.

There, it seems, the key is what you can easily do with the flower. "Tamper-proof"? Heh.

 

[iammyself]

Since I can no longer edit my posts (Probably from a previous observation.) I'll add this here. Apparently, vaping is legal as medical use in FL. (According to the above linked brief from People United):
Alternate Forms of Inhaled Medical Marijuana Are Available in Florida
Although marijuana “in a form for smoking” is excluded from the statutory definition of “medical use,” other alternate forms of inhaled medical marijuana are available in Florida. Specifically, there are presently “three (3) categories of medical marijuana products and/or delivery devices that involve the inhalation of medical marijuana: (1) nasal spray applications; (2) vaporization of ground flower; and (3) vaporization of oil.” R. 1622. Notably, Florida allows the vaping or vaporization of marijuana flower as a medical use, so long as the flower is in a sealed, tamper-proof receptacle. See § 381.986 (1)(j)2., Fla. Stat.; see also R. 1622. In that delivery system, the vaporization process heats the marijuana, but at a lower temperature than the incineration process for smoking. R. 429–30, 2085–86. Vaporization provides rapid THC absorption and THC concentrations that are similar to smoking marijuana, while reducing harmful constituents that are present in the smoking form of marijuana and removing the harm of second hand exposure to others. R. 429–30, 2085–86, 2110–12, 2118–19, 2142.

There, it seems, the key is what you can easily do with the flower. "Tamper-proof"? Heh.

Yeah, that’s exactly how it was before smoking was approved as a distribution route. The only way to get flower for vaping was to buy it in expensive, tamper-proof, cup that was placed in their crappy vaporizer.

People ripped them apart, but it wasn’t worth the cost or effort involved. And they found the dispensaries were just putting whole nugs in the cup. That prevented me from trying dry herb vaping, and only getting shitty carts, for two years.

 

[His_Highness]

When Florida first began its cannabis legalization endeavors, the majority of Floridians were for legalization but it wasn't happening the way we wanted and all we could get was low dose/CBD unless you were dying. Voters on both sides of the isle found something to agree on for once. Even some old-school prominent republicans politicians were getting in on it as an investment. My take back then was "Florida politicians will notice that the majority of their constituents want this and change up accordingly because that's what they do to stay in office". Kind of a simplistic and maybe even naive point of view when "follow the money" is usually more telling but it happened for us Floridians before and I still believe the majority don't want this.

Florida is full of old fuckers like me and we want full strength cannabis.

 

[notams]

Thanks for all of the informed insights and opinions. Disturbing and pisses me off. It's almost humorous when you see the lengths they go to fighting devil weed. I mean, what do they think is going to happen? Ignorant fools.

The language of these politicians is so inflamatory and paranoid. It reminds me of a character from the Simpsons. I think it was the reverend's wife. She always says, "what about the children? Won't someone think of the children?"

 

[Tranquility]

 

[florduh]

I'm noticing a pattern in Floriduh. Floridians overwhelming vote for a popular amendment, then legislators spend the next few years desperately trying to reverse it. Do you know how hard it is to get over 60% of citizens to vote for something? No Senator or Governor in the State gets that share of the vote. The contempt our rulers have for us is truly disgusting.

If there was a list of issues lawmakers could try and solve in this fucking State, the weed being too strong wouldn't rank in the top 1,000.

 

[Tranquility]

There is no conspiracy. It's all just different people randomly choosing the same thing.

Marijuana foes seek to impose THC potency caps to curb industry’s growth

Marijuana opponents, frustrated by the growing number of legalization victories across the U.S., are increasingly trying to rein in the industry by proposing state-level caps on THC potency.

The push involves at least six bills introduced in four state legislatures: Florida, Massachusetts, Montana and Washington.


A bill was derailed in Colorado before it could be introduced because it triggered a backlash.

Industry insiders suggest such moves could mean a return to prohibition, since many of the proposals would cap THC beneath what’s currently available in many state-legal markets.

Banning those products, industry proponents warn, would create a new illicit market for higher-potency cannabis and spawn more underground competition for legal marijuana companies.

That, in turn, could restart the war on drugs......

War, huh, yeah. What is it good for?

 

[florduh]

Yeah, it did not escape my attention that multiple States are trying this bullshit at about the same time. I'm glad industry publications are publicizing this pattern as well.

There is no conspiracy. It's all just different people randomly choosing the same thing.

I mean, limiting THC to 15%? Sounds like a conspiracy devised by "Big Mids".

Vermont's limits have already passed, though a 30% THC limit for flower is sort of funny. Looks like they destroyed their concentrates market by limiting their potency to 60%. Maybe I should start a rosin press shop in Burlington. I'd clean up.

 

[notams]

@florduh I used to live in Burlington, VT (actually, Shelburne right next door) back in the 70's when I was a kid. My Dad tells me there was a vibrant cannabis market there back then.

It warms my heart to know there are some old-school hippie growers in Vermont that are right now listening to Phish and just completely ignoring these rules.

Yeah, get a rosin press in Burlington and that town would make you mayor.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

Copy and pasted.....good news I think?

UPDATE: MARCH 30, 2021​

On Monday, March 29, 2021, Governor Ron DeSantis made his position clear on Florida’s attempt to cap THC levels, stating:

I have not endorsed that. That is not something I’m pushing. I’ve talked with [House Speaker] Chris [Sprowls] about it and it’s not something I’m endorsing.

Speaking during a media availability with CFO Jimmy Patroni and legislative leaders, DeSantis also noted:

If you look at some of the stuff that’s now coming down, there’s a lot of really bad things in it. It’s not necessarily what you would’ve had 30 years ago when someone’s in college and they’re doing something. You have some really, really bad stuff in there, so I think having the ability to identify that, I think, that’s safety, and quite frankly when you get into some of that stuff, it’s not medicinal at that point for sure.

However, as Florida Politics reports:

Concerns notwithstanding, that may end the issue for the foreseeable future.

Although H.B. 1455 is currently waiting its third and final committee hearing in the House, the bill has stalled in the Senate. Florida Politics explains:

Judiciary Committee Chairman Senator Jeff Brandes says THC caps are a non-starter, and he has not scheduled the bill for a hearing.

 

[iammyself]

Copy and pasted.....good news I think?

UPDATE: MARCH 30, 2021​

On Monday, March 29, 2021, Governor Ron DeSantis made his position clear on Florida’s attempt to cap THC levels, stating:


Speaking during a media availability with CFO Jimmy Patroni and legislative leaders, DeSantis also noted:


However, as Florida Politics reports:


Although H.B. 1455 is currently waiting its third and final committee hearing in the House, the bill has stalled in the Senate. Florida Politics explains:

They must’ve shook down the political donations they were looking for this legislative cycle, so now they can drop the issue until they want more. Cynical view, but prob closer to correct than incorrect.

 

[Tranquility]

They must’ve shook down the political donations they were looking for this legislative cycle, so now they can drop the issue until they want more. Cynical view, but prob closer to correct than incorrect.

I believe the article called it "horse-trading".

On another note, at least he's not helping out the "think of the children" crowd on vaping. Well, maybe he is. But, the "vaping industry" is behind it.

I suspect horse's ass trading.
After DeSantis Veto, Florida Again Tries to Regulate E-Cigarettes

...As this new bill will not ban any specific products, many in the vaping community favor it. The vaping industry has always favored restricting access to nicotine vaping products for minors and young people, which is what this bill promises to do. It also frees independent vape businesses from punishing fees to obtain licenses, which previous bills have tried to achieve.

 

[florduh]

If you look at some of the stuff that’s now coming down, there’s a lot of really bad things in it. It’s not necessarily what you would’ve had 30 years ago when someone’s in college and they’re doing something. You have some really, really bad stuff in there, so I think having the ability to identify that, I think, that’s safety, and quite frankly when you get into some of that stuff, it’s not medicinal at that point for sure.

What "bad things", Ron? I don't understand how virtually all of our rulers can be this misinformed on cannabis. This entire statement sounds like it was made by a malfunctioning AI. It's just nonsense.