Flame Diffused Vaporizers w/Screens *Vaporstar, Phytolab, Vapobowl*

[stinkmeaner]

Something came to mind about these types of vaporizers that use screens or a stack of screens to diffuse a lighters flame enough to lower the heat for vaporization. What if the screens are getting too hot?

Think of it like this:

If you take a big piece of steel like steel rod can be heated all day with a butane lighter all day without any problems and it will get warm or hot but never enough to change the steels properties. Then you could take a piece of steel wool or light gauge steel wire and heat it with the same lighter and it will actually catch on fire.

I normally don't have a problem with metal elements or heat exchangers in vaporizers if they are made correctly and efficiently, meaning the element should operate at a similar temperature to the air it is heating, meaning the screen in a normal vaporizer should be exposed to heat no greater than 230C. The screens in a vaporizer like the Vaporstar are in direct contact with the lighters flame for the duration of the hit, the screen is made of fairly thin wire and is clearly taking the full heat of the lighter. The temperature of a Bic lighter flame is 1977C or 3590.6F

So the question you have to ask is, exactly how hot is the screen in Vaporstar type vaporizers getting?

 

[Egzoset]

I'm curently trying to identify vaporizer brands/models which are compatible with heat guns. The temperature in a heat gun is limited to about 650C (1200F) and silicon carbide (ceramic) screens are said to remain inert at such temperatures, if i recall correctly that is... My assumption is that a product based on silicon carbide should be safe when used with a heat gun.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I would use some other material than silicon carbide for your screens, preferably something more mainstream like stainless steel. Silicon carbide has conflicting reports of safety online and I just don't see the point of being a guinea pig.
Also you will not need nearly 650C to get vapor, at that temperature it will surely burn your material, you will be best served by keeping temperatures around 200C to 230C, but play with it to see what works best for you and your particular setup.

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm...

Silicon carbide is used in the Glass VaporGenie unit, if i'm not mistaking:

They must have thought it was safe enough but i suppose that depends on how the material is treated (mechanically speaking). It has a simple crystaline innert structure which makes it hard and heat resistant, apparently; though i don't know how brittle products made of this really are. Perhaps one of us could ask the VG manufacturer about flaking and see what those people will answer.

If you prefer nickel-plated steel for the heated surface then i guess you should like the Lotus vaporizer because no flamme ever gets anywhere near its air intake path since these openings are located on the other side of the steel plate. I'd say the Phyto-Lab and Vapman appear to be roughly similar but there are so many products to compare i get easily lost in this jungle (read I need help , actually)!

All i can tell right now is that salvia divinorum is said to require high temperatures. Some texts mention that it starts vaporizing if heat is as low as 175C (347F), others make that as high as 300C (572F) - which most electric units just can't reach by the way. A decent heat gun would cover that range of temperatures and i'm pretty sure 300C is still considered to be safe with silicon carbide at least by the VG guys. Well, maybe it's not exactly portable but what other economic alternatives are there to vaporizers using glass-encapsulated heaters! Oh and i'm not too sure if even these costly products would't have potential material leaching issues of their own, go figure!



In short, if you thought this is puzzling imagine yourself in the shoes of some poor newbie like me!!!

 

[stinkmeaner]

I don't see what your getting at, first you say you intend to use a heat gun for vaporizing and then you want to use Silicon Carbide as a filter. You don't need that if you are using the heat gun method, all you need is a glass bowl with a glass screen or a thin stainless or ti screen (under) the herb.


I have always hated the design of all Vapor Genie products, the whole concept of flame diffusion is silly to me when there are better alternatives with non direct heat using methods proven in such vapes as the Supreme Vape, Vapman, and yes the Lotus Vape. I would hardly look towards Vapor Genie as a role model for health. There are numerous articles on Silicon Carbide and many of which are not favorable, http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/si.htm

This thread was started for the vaporizers that use fine metal screens so I didn't include Vapor Genie types in the opening post but feel free to discuss these too because they are also skeptical in health.
In fact for all those using a regualar Bic Lighter for their Vapor Genie & Vapostar vaporizers, think of all the soot a Bic leaves behind if you hold the flame on a surface and then think of all that soot on the flame filter or entering your lungs.

 

[Egzoset]

I'm simply seeking dialogue, that's how people get to know each other and sometimes also learn from each other. In my situation i find it desirable to have such a dialogue with you since i was under the impression that we got compatible concerns about the effects of intense heat on the vaporizer's material - but i could be wrong. Perhaps i have "bad breath" and you'd rather not exchange opinions with a newbie, i can accept that and live with it.

In any case, i don't believe it would be productive to insist over the use of any material if someone already made it clear that option is not open for discussion; you could argue that there can be traces of silicon dioxide in silicon carbide screens, for example, and that would be sufficient for me...

As far as i'm conserned the fact that with just one contact, via a single post, i already learn about glass and titanium screens fully justifies this single post alone, as long as it still fits in your thread of course! One thing is for sure, soot doesn't attract me any more than you, the thought of direct contact between the air path and unburned butane gas residue isn't appealing to me neither.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I think you are misinterpreting my post, is English your second language? You are taking the tone of my post completely out of context. I ask this because I see you are from Quebec, no offense.

The only question I had is why you would want to use a ceramic flame diffuser with a heat gun, since with a temperature controlled heat gun you wouldn't need anything between the herbal material and the heat gun. Also this thread was created to discuss the use of a direct flame on metal screens simply because direct flame is extremely hot and could possibly bring the thin strands of metal in the screens close to melting point and possibly release unwanted material into the air people are inhaling.

I also had no idea your are talking about Salvia and I have no experience with it whatsoever.

 

[Egzoset]

That's right, being a French-Canadian from Quebec city there are chances English doesn't sound exactly like my native language but i also lived in Montreal for a long time and i was suficiently exposed to its anglophone minority to acquire some basic but adequate english-speaking skills. Yet, i try my best not to sound hostile but it seems the words i choose result in having a totally opposite effect! My appologies about this, i already managed to get Hippie Dickie on his toes in a matter of days and for no good reason somehow, please rest assured i'm not looking for more controversial confrontations! No offense taken.



Perhaps we have a simple misunderstanding: i'm not even contemplating ceramic flame diffusers as a topic, i must actually confess i have a hard time trying to figure out which vaporizer you have in mind that has its screen in direct contact with the fire of a lighter while working as a diffuser on top of it. I do have interrest in materials and related issues in the context of intense heat though, because salvia divinorum is what brought me here, among other reasons...

 

[stinkmeaner]

I should have put pictures in the thread to show where my concern was, thanks for pointing this out.

See how both these units have a stack of metal screens in the top or lid? They use them in a similar way that the Vapor Genie uses the Silcon Carbide filter.

 

[Egzoset]

Oh, i see:

YouTube - Vaporstar

I didn't gather from viewing a few other pictures before that these screens behaved like heat difusers but now that you mention it...

[h]Yuk![/h]

...and i suppose the Vapo-Bowl with its chrome on it doesn't score high in your book neither.

Well done!

 

[OO]

I don't see what your getting at, first you say you intend to use a heat gun for vaporizing and then you want to use Silicon Carbide as a filter. You don't need that if you are using the heat gun method, all you need is a glass bowl with a glass screen or a thin stainless or ti screen (under) the herb.


I have always hated the design of all Vapor Genie products, the whole concept of flame diffusion is silly to me when there are better alternatives with non direct heat using methods proven in such vapes as the Supreme Vape, Vapman, and yes the Lotus Vape. I would hardly look towards Vapor Genie as a role model for health. There are numerous articles on Silicon Carbide and many of which are not favorable, http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/si.htm

This thread was started for the vaporizers that use fine metal screens so I didn't include Vapor Genie types in the opening post but feel free to discuss these too because they are also skeptical in health.
In fact for all those using a regualar Bic Lighter for their Vapor Genie & Vapostar vaporizers, think of all the soot a Bic leaves behind if you hold the flame on a surface and then think of all that soot on the flame filter or entering your lungs.

i saw nothing in that link that said sic was hazardous to your health, and i wouldn't expect to as similar to SiO2 I.E. glass, SiC is an inert ceramic.
it seems to me that you are spreading misinformation, i hope that was not your intention.

 

[stinkmeaner]

i saw nothing in that link that said sic was hazardous to your health, and i wouldn't expect to as similar to SiO2 I.E. glass, SiC is an inert ceramic.
it seems to me that you are spreading misinformation,

Well to me your comment is out of line, why is it you people are always out to prove people wrong when they post something out of concern? This thread is not even about Silcon Carbide, it is clearly about the items I outlined in the first post, but it got derailed. If you did read the whole page of the site I posted and not the first few words that said "Inert" you would have seen where it said it can irritate the lungs and eyes. Silicon can be inert in some forms such as glass but in a porous state such as the Vapor Genie filters I am not so sure, especially how brittle they are and with extreme temperatures applied.

Here is something a little more subtle for you.
Does this help? Cancer in Silcon Carbide workers. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/153/10/978.full.pdf

If you are that worried about my posts in the future then do an actual search of the internet on your own before you accuse me of spreading misinformation. Because from your posts it seems like you are one of those people that gets off on trying to prove someone wrong.

 

[Egzoset]

To me it's most regretable that it were my interventions which resulted in such apparent topic steering, this wasn't the underlying intention. Your initial question attracted my attention even if the context didn't seem clear at 1st. Now, with help from the late illustrations i can fully appreciate the scope of your subject. I only mentioned silicon carbide as a possible alternative to metals, lets move on with brass, for example, as that's what lies in the bottom of a VapBong - and i kind of grow curious about the VapBong...

The flame of a lighter won't reach this piece of brass directly but it's still acting as an interface between it and the blend:

In this case there should be no concern relative to heat vs metal, right?

 

[stinkmeaner]

No worries, I know it wasn't your intention. Actually it is a similar subject, so have at it since you were trying to contribute.

As for the vape you pictured, besides being the ridiculously overpriced it does seem like is the best in class of its type of design (meaning glass test tube or light bulb type vaporizers), I like how it uses a cool air intake and directs the air down to the heat and then up the middle shaft, quite clever for a test tube.

I don't think the screen poses much risk since it is not heated directly by the flame, I would however change the brass screen for stainless at least since it is cheap and easy to do. Brass shouldn't be of much concern if it is not heated over vaporization temperature and if it is free of impurities like lead, which was a big debate in the past

 

[Egzoset]

I wouln't dispute the idea that those who buy a VapBong are not paying only for raw materials! Ignore the brass and glass, what remains after that is a piece of rubber which must have generated astronomic costs in design and production...



Hummm...

But i hit a wall trying to imagine a better replacement for the screen.

Glass beads would be messy, for example...

 

[stinkmeaner]

I don't think there is anything that can replace a screen, they could make a built in glass screen at the factory if they wanted to, just like the kinds in some of the Luke Wilson Glass Bowls/slides. Other than that I would only suggest picking another material for the screen. Do you own this product or are you just thinking about it?

 

[Egzoset]

I'm still exploring some ideas for my "Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy" thread. It may be a fantasy but that doesn't mean i won't try to make it realistic. I might have plans for more stainless steel, actually, you'll see in good time...

 

[bigsnack]

Interesting topic here as I want to get something like the Vapor Genie top or Vapbowl and screw it onto a small water pipe i purchased.. This vapbong seems kind of interesting, just don't think we get it here in the states?. Hmm