Favorite Temperature

[sal69]

This is true to some extent, but you can get pretty ripped on whatever gets released at 160°C, and it is much, much tastier. Bear in mind that the temperatures we're throwing around here are what is indicated by the device (Arizer Extreme in my case) and don't necessarily reflect the temperature at the point of vapourization. In fact, no vapourizer measures the actual vapourization temperature, although some get a lot closer than others. (Herbalaire vs Chinese hotbox, anyone?)

Yes you can get pretty ripped. I can only speak from my experience, if i vape during daytime (weekends) i usually stick to 185° or less on my volcano digit, often i even stay at 170°. This way i can ovoid the "couch lock" while vaping, but you get pretty backed.
And in the evening i use the same herb i vaped at max 185° (and i usually do like 10 bags *lol*) and vape it once at 215° and a last round at 230° and this sends me strait to bed ^^.

So from my feeling there is definitely something left of the goodies.

So what i would recommend if you own a vaporizer that can control temps, you should have at least 2 bags for the AVB. One for the low-temp vaped herbs you can use later to put you to sleep. And another one for the final vaped result after vaping it at 230°. I dont know if this is still worth saving, it looks pretty done from my point of view ...

 

[Nosferatu]

Keep in mind the EQ4's temp is off by 20-30F. So we don't know what the herbs temp really is in that vape, the digital screen is an estimation.

 

[OhTheAgony]

Personally I prefer vaping at my m105 Solo's highest temp which I believe it has been measured at about 220C.

A M105 reaches 200 degrees Celsius at best. I think you're probably vaping somewhere between 190 and 200C.

 

[lwien]

190C/375F

 

[natural farmer]

I see this kind of assertion all the time, and it immediately tells me that the writer simply hasn't learned the right technique. The LB can reach combustion temperatures, so there is no reason you can't get whatever you want from it. Lots of people do. It's a matter of learning how to control it. There are plenty of posts in the LB thread to support this.

no offence but your response immediately told me that you are making assumptions... In two years of all day-every day vaping I have done a lot of practise thank you and have been through all methods and techniques and the box can never give the uniform ABV my Solo does. It's ABV was always full of black, charcoiled pieces of herb that spoil the taste very soon into the session. It 's mostly conduction baby, can't help it. Let's not continue on a solo vs box talk though, anyone that tried both probably has a unique opinion and mine was that...

A M105 reaches 200 degrees Celsius at best. I think you're probably vaping somewhere between 190 and 200C.

that's just what I have read in the Vaporpedia site, and my ABV is dark enough to believe a 220C, but if not, then I am looking forward for my newest m107 to arrive...

 

[pakalolo]

no offence but your response immediately told me that you are making assumptions... In two years of all day-every day vaping I have done a lot of practise thank you and have been through all methods and techniques and the box can never give the uniform ABV my Solo does. It's ABV was always full of black, charcoiled pieces of herb that spoil the taste very soon into the session.

Yet so many have succeeded where you failed...

 

[natural farmer]

Yet so many have succeeded where you failed...

have you seen all their ABV's up close? Or mine?

 

[stonedwarman]

380 degrees F on my Volcano digital....that is my fave temp. I would like to see some sort of spread sheet with the temps that all the different cannabinoids vaporize at....just to make sure lol.

 

[lwien]

I would like to see some sort of spread sheet with the temps that all the different cannabinoids vaporize at....just to make sure lol.

Here ya go:

Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point:157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant



Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties

β-myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

β-caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool
Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

α-pinene
Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

α-terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

borneol
Boiling point: 210*C / 410 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Δ-3-carene 0.004% 168 Antiinflammatory

Δ-3-carene
Boiling point: 168*C / 334.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory



Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties

apigenin
Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

β-sitosterol
Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-α-reductase, inhibitor

 

[stonedwarman]

Thanks! .....looks like i have to vape at higher temps...maybe combustion is more efficient at releasing the more healthy properties of weed?

 

[lwien]

^^ Along with the not so healthy by-products of combusted weed like Benzine and Carbon Monoxide.

 

[Tai Sun]

I usually set my exq4 to 220'

 

[golantravize]

This is true to some extent, but you can get pretty ripped on whatever gets released at 160°C, and it is much, much tastier. Bear in mind that the temperatures we're throwing around here are what is indicated by the device (Arizer Extreme in my case) and don't necessarily reflect the temperature at the point of vapourization. In fact, no vapourizer measures the actual vapourization temperature, although some get a lot closer than others. (Herbalaire vs Chinese hotbox, anyone?)



I see this kind of assertion all the time, and it immediately tells me that the writer simply hasn't learned the right technique. The LB can reach combustion temperatures, so there is no reason you can't get whatever you want from it. Lots of people do. It's a matter of learning how to control it. There are plenty of posts in the LB thread to support this.

This is all true, but research has been done using proper temperatures measured during use for accuracy. As My understanding is that the results showed most active ingrediants start to vaporize around 180C, and not before. But hey, if you get high then you're doing it right, right?

 

[pakalolo]

This is all true, but research has been done using proper temperatures measured during use for accuracy. As My understanding is that the results showed most active ingrediants start to vaporize around 180C, and not before. But hey, if you get high then you're doing it right, right?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm afraid your comment might deter people from discovering the wonderful tasty world of low temperature vaping.

Your understanding is incorrect. For example, the study discussed a few posts back used 170°C as its low end temperature, and got plenty of actives (24.18% of yield). You might have gotten your impression from the (in)famous Gieringer study, which used 185°C, but that same study also states that he found some THC starting at 140°C. A later study by Gieringer, St. Laurent, and Goodrich used 155°C as their low end point. Also, the empirical evidence is that I am typing this feeling pretty happy with 160°C on my Extreme.

It bears repeating that we are discussing temperatures that are definitely not the temperatures at the point of vapourization. In the Gieringer-St. Laurent-Goodrich study, they mention that the measured temperature at the top surface of the sample was 155°C and 218°C on the screen closest to the heater. Neither of these is the point of vapourization. (They appear to use top surface temperatures in their study.) Where is the temperature being measured on your device? You probably don't know, and I don't know for mine either. Wherever it is, it isn't the point of vapourization.

In conclusion:

1. Temperature displays are good as reference points for consistent vaping. They are somewhat useful for comparing units of the same model, less so across manufacturers or models. They do not reflect the actual vapourization temperature you're using.
2. To find your favourite temperature, start low (I recommend 160°C) and step up.

 

[golantravize]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm afraid your comment might deter people from discovering the wonderful tasty world of low temperature vaping.

Your understanding is incorrect. For example, the study discussed a few posts back used 170°C as its low end temperature, and got plenty of actives (24.18% of yield). You might have gotten your impression from the (in)famous Gieringer study, which used 185°C, but that same study also states that he found some THC starting at 140°C. A later study by Gieringer, St. Laurent, and Goodrich used 155°C as their low end point. Also, the empirical evidence is that I am typing this feeling pretty happy with 160°C on my Extreme.

It bears repeating that we are discussing temperatures that are definitely not the temperatures at the point of vapourization. In the Gieringer-St. Laurent-Goodrich study, they mention that the measured temperature at the top surface of the sample was 155°C and 218°C on the screen closest to the heater. Neither of these is the point of vapourization. (They appear to use top surface temperatures in their study.) Where is the temperature being measured on your device? You probably don't know, and I don't know for mine either. Wherever it is, it isn't the point of vapourization.

In conclusion:

1. Temperature displays are good as reference points for consistent vaping. They are somewhat useful for comparing units of the same model, less so across manufacturers or models. They do not reflect the actual vapourization temperature you're using.
2. To find your favourite temperature, start low (I recommend 160°C) and step up.

You know what, I looked at it again and you're right. I don't know why I didn't see that the first time. Now I'm just sad my solo starts at 185. I'm getting it replaced and the newer model starts at 180, but still.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

feeling pretty happy with 160°C on my Extreme

do you know where that reading is measured? or, have you been able to measure the temp inside the bowl?

i'm trying to figure out a scenario where that temp can create adequate vapor.

 

[luchiano]

[quote="pakalolo, post: 214614, member: 954"

1. Temperature displays are good as reference points for consistent vaping. They are somewhat useful for comparing units of the same model, less so across manufacturers or models. They do not reflect the actual vapourization temperature you're using.
2. To find your favourite temperature, start low (I recommend 160°C) and step up.

[/quote]

I see where you're coming from but if you use a vaporizer that does it's job as far as being accurate with temperature when you're inhaling air through the heater(not dipping)and in the case of fans rotating at a rate that keeps the temperature the same as with the volcano, you are actually vaping at that temperature if you inhale at a continued rate to where the herb will release some of the heat that it absorbs which lower the temperature a bit. This is why vaping real ground herb that is not crowded in the bowl is the best because being that the herb is broken up it doesn't allow the herb to hold the heat as much. Remember the hot air is what's extracting everything and yes the temperature on the surface of the herb may be lowered but that is AFTER the extraction or shall I state when the air has began going through the herb and the longer and slower the inhale the quicker the whole bowl of herbs will reach the actual temperature of the air. This is when having a vaporizer that can detect the actual temperature of the herb once it's heated is needed because if you inhale for a long time the herb may hold onto some of the heat and raise in temperature, albeit a small increase, but still an increase. Aromed claims they do this but I'm not going through that again but that should be the new thing vaporizers should work on but I doubt it because most people don't care about being accurate with temperature like that.

Also, I think you should take into account what we are vaping are the oils and some water with substances attached to them so they will boil off quick before the plant fibers of the plant which are carbohydrates especially in the case of the water because if you are vaping at 250f & up the water will leave the herb fast which will leave you with dry herb that won't lower the temperature of the AIR much and the temperature you select will stay consistent throughout the herb which will allow you to vape the oil parts that vape at a higher temperature than the water but not high enough to effect the carbohydrates unless you go to 451f and oil LOVES air or shall I state oxygen and grabs on to it easily and the hot air helps it do this VERY EASY which is why you don't need a lot of air to extract the oils we want off of the herb which means even small clouds or seemingly nonexistent clouds will get you bake as long as you inhale it deep into the lungs. Now the metal parts may get hot but by the time you stop inhaling it should go back to being lowered and not really effect the herb which is why having the heat source on top of the herb is better than under it because if it's under it the screen may slowly absorb the heat that is being released with the hot air by the heater and slowly raise the temperature of the herb because air rises and even though you aren't inhaling air some is still going in contact with the heater and will eventually touch the screen and keep it from being totally cool.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

when the air has began going through the herb and the longer and slower the inhale the quicker the whole bowl of herbs will reach the actual temperature of the air.

yes, i have measured exactly that -- the herb temp rises 50°F during an inhale to match the hot air.

This is when having a vaporizer that can detect the actual temperature of the herb once it's heated is needed

well, not really needed imo, since i know the herb will be at the thermometer reading within 5 seconds of starting the inhale.

 

[luchiano]

Hippidickie, that's nice that you know the actual temperature changes!.

Do you think one of the reasons for the herb cooling off and not holding on to heat may be because the heater isn't directly under the herb holder and the hot air can't really effect it or have you check to see if it cools off after a few minutes into the session or does it hold some heat?

BTW, you know what would be cool, if you could make a cube version that heats up instantly once you start your inhale because the size is perfect for something like that. you literally know everything is cool after you finish your inhale. I know the maker of the ettera has a portable vaporizer that does it but he wants around $5,000 to purchase it so i won't buy that any time soon.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

What i was seeing, measuring in the middle of the herb (as opposed to the glass wall of the bud vial), is this 50°F swing up during the hit and then drop after the hit. Between hits there is no active heat under the vial, but all around it (and reflected back into the vial by the polished stainless steel heat shield) -- air convection between hits is virtually nil, there are only a few wisps of vapor that escape from the top of the vial. There is minimal physical contact between the vial and the hot oven tube.

i'm still trying to understand why the oven tube temperature drifts up 5°F during the session (7.5 minutes) to finally reach the setpoint temperature that the coil has been at throughout the session.

i believe instant heatup to vape temp would be more draining than maintaining the temp. This coil heater design doesn't lend itself to instant on, vapor temp airflow.

 

[luchiano]

Maybe it drifts slowly because it isn't in direct contact with the wire on every surface of the glass meaning totally covered and therefore it takes a while for the whole glass to absorb all of the heat in a uniform fashion.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

yes, and the temperature is hottest in the center of the coil and diminishes toward the ends of the coil.

i started out using the nichrome ribbon from my car cigarette lighter -- definitely provides more coverage of the glass oven tube -- i may play with that approach for the next iteration.

i still have program space and debate if i should try to compensate for this heat saturation/temperature drift somehow. i don't have any idea for an approach to solving this yet. my PID implementation doesn't have a way to accommodate the situation.

But all in all, considering all the comments on FC about people who start a session lower in temp and step up as the bowl is cashed, makes me think the drift scenario is okay.

 

[luchiano]

Why don't you put some small metal sheets wrapped around on the glass where there is space between the wires?.

You can also just put the small metal sheets at the ends to prevent the hot air in the center from escaping.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

the nichrome coil is uninsulated -- and i don't want any possibility of that much polyimide outgassing.

next version i'll rethink the entire heater concept -- this one works remarkably well as is.

 

[luchiano]

Yeah, you still got a hit on your hands. It could only get better as more technology becomes available. Imagine a touchscreen cube vaporizer that plays music with a headset. The ipod shuffle is the size of the cubes digital display if not smaller