Exausting Goods and Color

[cybrguy]

Still relatively new at vaping and still trying to fully understand its ins and outs. I have a few vapes now and they are quite different in extraction. I like to get the most I can out of my product so details start to become important.

Obviously, due to the torch, my Lotus is my highest temp vape and is very nearly all convection (it would seem) and has very little conduction. The Flowermate is probably almost completely conduction, and the HA is somewhere in between. When I continue to hit either the HA or the FM after most of the obvious extraction has taken place the abv will get as dark as I willing to let it. I can get to a burned taste with either as well. I am guessing that even though the temp on these vapes stop rising before combustion can occur, it seems that continuing to apply heat causes the goods to continue to "degrade". If this degradation is not combustion I think it is still "burning" in some way.

Color is the easiest way to judge the level of extraction, but it may not be that reliable an indicator. I am just too new at this to know for sure and I am seeking other opinions about this. I have found that the lighter in color ABV is the more likely it is that there are still some goods left, but I'm not confident this couldn't be influenced by strain or growing conditions or moisture content. Even the starting color of the product is likely factor to this as well. While color may not be the ultimate objective measure, I imagine relative color will at least give good clues as to extraction level.

When using the Lotus the abv is never as consistently colored, and ends up having light and black specs even when fully extracted. I am guessing that this is temperature related and the result of denser (like stems) and less dense particles in the ground goods and how they react to a higher temp.

I recognize that Vaping is the kind of thing that will generate lots of personal opinions on the "right" way to do things along with different views and preferences, as it is as much a culture as it is a means to an end, but I would think there are likely many objective truths in the "industry" as well. Finding and quantifying them is probably useful to a degree but not likely to be an easy task to accomplish.

So, while I'm not looking for "the truth" here, I am looking for well considered opinions. Is there ever any value is vaping coffee colored ABV? And what causes ABV to continue to darken in a vape that only goes to around 200° C? And can it ever extract everything?

 

[Radio]

Still relatively new at vaping and still trying to fully understand its ins and outs. I have a few vapes now and they are quite different in extraction. I like to get the most I can out of my product so details start to become important.

Obviously, due to the torch, my Lotus is my highest temp vape and is very nearly all convection (it would seem) and has very little conduction. The Flowermate is probably almost completely conduction, and the HA is somewhere in between. When I continue to hit either the HA or the FM after most of the obvious extraction has taken place the abv will get as dark as I willing to let it. I can get to a burned taste with either as well. I am guessing that even though the temp on these vapes stop rising before combustion can occur, it seems that continuing to apply heat causes the goods to continue to "degrade". If this degradation is not combustion I think it is still "burning" in some way.

Color is the easiest way to judge the level of extraction, but it may not be that reliable an indicator. I am just too new at this to know for sure and I am seeking other opinions about this. I have found that the lighter in color ABV is the more likely it is that there are still some goods left, but I'm not confident this couldn't be influenced by strain or growing conditions or moisture content. Even the starting color of the product is likely factor to this as well. While color may not be the ultimate objective measure, I imagine relative color will at least give good clues as to extraction level.

When using the Lotus the abv is never as consistently colored, and ends up having light and black specs even when fully extracted. I am guessing that this is temperature related and the result of denser (like stems) and less dense particles in the ground goods and how they react to a higher temp.

I recognize that Vaping is the kind of thing that will generate lots of personal opinions on the "right" way to do things along with different views and preferences, as it is as much a culture as it is a means to an end, but I would think there are likely many objective truths in the "industry" as well. Finding and quantifying them is probably useful to a degree but not likely to be an easy task to accomplish.

So, while I'm not looking for "the truth" here, I am looking for well considered opinions. Is there ever any value is vaping coffee colored ABV? And what causes ABV to continue to darken in a vape that only goes to around 200° C? And can it ever extract everything?

You are correct in assuming that the darker the ABV the more 'goodness' has been extracted out of it. When active ingredience are slowly being extracted from it and as the herb's heat exposure time increases; the colour will progress from green (naturally) to a light brown and green mixture, to brown, to dark brown, to black. I use the colour as a guage of how far into a sesh I am, and I have been trying something new lately which is great. I re-vape everything that doesn't look dark enough until my whole ABV supply is as dark as possible without tasting a harsh, metallic burning flavor. As soon as it gets to that point I immediately stop.

 

[KeroZen]

Apparently most "convection" vaporizers produce a lighter ABV in general, but they all suffer from the risk of combusting small bits there and there unless you stir (this is true at least for Firefly, Firewood, Elevape, LSV because they bast very hot air on a concentrated spot, this might be a design issue though...)

With "conduction" vapes (note that I'm using quotes again on purpose) it's harder to combust small spots but if you take the Pax, FlowerMate and Indica for instance, they all have the "roasted load" taste pretty fast and can produce a very dark ABV.

I'm in no way an expert, so this is all speculation but I think we should take into account the difference between combustion (where oxygen is consumed) and pyrolisis, which is degradation by heat without combustion. Both will break compounds apart and create unwanted byproducts, incuding the well known "free radicals" that are uber bad for our health (they are strong carcinogens because they try to react with everything they touch, as they should not exist in this state)

I wouldn't venture too much, but maybe conduction creates more pyrolisis? Convection on the other hand can really ignite small bits when the herb is ground too fine... It would be interesting to know what's really happening in our bowls!

 

[chris 71]

I noticed something about the color of vaped material from many different kinds of bud.

What ive noticed is the color of abv i get seems to have something to do with how green the starting materials color was .
When i use stuff that is dark green the darker the abv. I have grown my own and when I did I made sure to give the plants enough of a flushing to make sure they really fade away, and turn from green to yellow.

Ive noticed that when iv compared my buds to commercial buds,there was a quite noticable difference. In that commercial buds are almost always much greener before vaping.
When i vape my stuff even if I vape it till its very well spent it stays a much lighter brown color. Most of the more commercial stuff getting very dark.

Its got me thinking its either the chlorophyll, or possibly the nitrogen still left in the plants that were not faded by flushing. Which in the case of the commercial bud could be do to the fact they are producing for money which could mean they were fed to the max for a higher weight

 

[cybrguy]

Try looking at your herb ABV with a loupe or a microscope at different stages of extraction. This can be insightful and revealing because what you are vaping is primarily on the surface of the material.

I've been wanting to do this, and will at some point. It would be a lot more interesting in a legal state where I would have more strains to compare, but even here I think it would be enlightening.

 

[KeroZen]

@steama : yes it's quite possible, I'm just forwarding what I read in the other threads as I just own a Firewood as a convection vape. But a lot of people report having black specks there and there and most pictures of convection ABVs I've seen on this forum were clearly less uniform than conduction ones. In my Firewood, it's often tiny particles that turn black and it happens if the material is too dry and turns powdery.

@chris 71 : while slightly off-topic, I think you are over-doing the flushing. They must turn lighter but if they turn completely yellow it means they are starving for their last week or two, and this is a source of stress and they will try to fight it by relocating stuff, mostly from the leaves yes, but also partly from the flowers.

As for the ABV color, with the same bud it's always lighter after my Firewood than after my Ascent, and it's aways darker after my FlowerMate(s) (that is even if I set my Ascent to the same temp as the FlowerMate it will be lighter)

 

[puddleglum]

I don't really worry about it because... I cook all my ABV into edibles, so nothing is wasted. Some days I might vape the flowers all the way to a crispy brown, other days I might have a shorter session and just give them a light toasting. It doesn't matter because everything gets mixed together and cooked down to coconut oil.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I judge the level of extration by having the abv rubbed between my fingers.. oils seem to form micro hashballs like reclaim does or at least color your finger a bit like decarbed oil.. i can feel it cause i am jedi though.. .. If there is only dry dust left.. than all good is extracted .

 

[RUDE BOY]

I judge the level of extraction by how stoned i get when I'm finished Vaping !

AVB Color on it's own has little to do with judging extraction IMO, AVB color seems a little different for each vape I own.

I know My vapes like the EV2 and Daisy never really get dark AVB but more of a golden brown/green still using the same temps I can't extract any more out of the AVB revaping with another vape that will take it to a dark roast coffee brown/near black.

Like Abysmal Vapor said above when the AVB turns to dust between my fingers it's toast.

 

[CarolKing]

If there isn't any vapor left when you draw, it's spent. I can run my herb through 2 - 10 min sessions with my Solo. Some of us save for edibles or late night vaping with the lighter ABV.

 

[cybrguy]

I judge the level of extraction by how stoned i get when I'm finished Vaping !

AVB Color on it's own has little to do with judging extraction IMO, AVB color seems a little different for each vape I own.

I know My vapes like the EV2 and Daisy never really get dark AVB but more of a golden brown/green still using the same temps I can't extract any more out of the AVB revaping with another vape that will take it to a dark roast coffee brown/near black.

Like Abysmal Vapor said above when the AVB turns to dust between my fingers it's toast.

Does your "golden brown/green" ABV crumble to dust?

 

[RUDE BOY]

Does your "golden brown/green" ABV crumble to dust?

Yes, it does. When it's truly spent it's dry as a bone.

 

[cybrguy]

That is interesting and different from my experience. It must be vape specific. Nothing crumbles for me if it has any color left.

 

[RUDE BOY]

It is very vape specific and limited pretty much to vapes that are 100% convection in my experience so far anyhow. Still a lot of vapes i gotta try though so this is just my experience with what I've used.

for example I have a pinnacle(runs cooler than it should I think) that leaves the AVB close to the same color as the EV2 after a session (two timeouts for the pn)with no more vapor production, the avb will still have a touch of green and i'll have very little or no buzz, the herb is still viable for 15-20 BIG hits with the ev2 where it'll only change color a tiny bit more towards light golden brown(and i'll be baked) then put that same avb in the T-vape and run up the temp to max I get minimal vapor for a few hits and black avb.