Tek Evaporation Chamber - build thread

[2clicker]

You could use a barometric (weighted) closing sealed damper from the fan input to the box so that if the fan was not on it would seal the fan off from infiltrating fumes in your evaporation chamber. I have to ask though with all trouble to setup would it not be easier (possibly cheaper too) to make a vac chamber setup for evaporation of your solvents? Although if your set on ethanol I would invest in a reclaim distillation unit

i thought vac chambers were only for evaping small amounts of solvent...? like after the bulk of the liquid has evaped.

can u put a dish filled with ethanol into a vac set up and do the entire evap in it? where does the solvent go?

can u post a link to a reclaim dist unit? does that mean that i get the solvent back after extraction?

 

[jdee]

Yes vac chamber is for the final purge, the solvent gets sucked into your vacuum hose and mixes with the vacuum oil, which needs to be replaced (how often depends how much you run it).

Also upon further inspection what gray wolf is using in the pic is an inline duct fan and it's way cheaper than an explosion proof fan.

 

[2clicker]

Yes vac chamber is for the final purge, the solvent gets sucked into your vacuum hose and mixes with the vacuum oil, which needs to be replaced (how often depends how much you run it).

Also upon further inspection what gray wolf is using in the pic is an inline duct fan and it's way cheaper than an explosion proof fan.

ok so for what i am trying to accomplish then a vac chamber wont cut it. im looking for a chamber to quickly evap the full amount of solvent as quickly as possible w/out heat.

i noticed graywolfs fan was an inline fan, but if it isnt hazardou area or explosion proof then its not what we should be using. besides his fan isnt sealed to an enclosed chamber so much less likely to see any fumes. downside is that it will take longer. i wanna speed it up. so the chamber is essential in my situation.

i could run any old fan outside like he is doing in that pic.

 

[Puffers]

i thought vac chambers were only for evaping small amounts of solvent...? like after the bulk of the liquid has evaped.

can u put a dish filled with ethanol into a vac set up and do the entire evap in it? where does the solvent go?

can u post a link to a reclaim dist unit? does that mean that i get the solvent back after extraction?

Vac chambers work on the principle of changing the atmosphere of the space so that the evaporation can take place at a much lower boiling point. I don't know how long it would take to evap a large amount of solvent I am sure with some heavy math you could ball park it .

(This may all be moot because you did mention you were looking for a cold evaporation, but oh well )Reflux distillation would reclaim your solvent for further use by trapping the evaporated gasses and re-condensing them back to a liquid state. I used to have a link for one somewhere but it was kinda pricey. I thought it was Eden labs but they only seem to carry commercial equipment from what I jut saw. Honestly I would just make one myself. I think you can get a good idea from a small homemade still for making you some White Lightning http://homedistiller.org/flavor/oils

 

[vape4health]

Clicks you just went from making a tiny wind tunnel to a full blown closed loop recycler. Check out the Tami its close to what your thinking of.
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/tamasium-concentrate-extractor.4993/

It would be too fuckin great to be able to recover solvents and not just vent them off.

 

[alltoreup]

I've looked around for an explosion proof fan like the one pictured here that gray wolf uses, but haven't had any luck finding one, if anyone knows where to find these that would be great!

Hey just popping in here because I recognized that fan. I don't know about the explosion proof, as I've never seen it advertised that way, but that's an inline blower and they do have the electronics on the outside like that. Designed to vent rooms so it has to be isolated from moisture in the air. If I'm not mistaken that particular brand in the pic is an Ecoplus and that one is probably a 4". Hard to tell from the pic. You can get them off eBay or any hydroponics store. Below is a link to a 6" one I found after a quick search. Probably way overkill for what you want but you can see how they are very similar. Even the stickers.
Ecoplus Supreme Inline Fan 6" 440 CFM - hydroponics fan blower exhaust

 

[2clicker]

Vac chambers work on the principle of changing the atmosphere of the space so that the evaporation can take place at a much lower boiling point. I don't know how long it would take to evap a large amount of solvent I am sure with some heavy math you could ball park it .

(This may all be moot because you did mention you were looking for a cold evaporation, but oh well )Reflux distillation would reclaim your solvent for further use by trapping the evaporated gasses and re-condensing them back to a liquid state. I used to have a link for one somewhere but it was kinda pricey. I thought it was Eden labs but they only seem to carry commercial equipment from what I jut saw. Honestly I would just make one myself. I think you can get a good idea from a small homemade still for making you some White Lightning http://homedistiller.org/flavor/oils

when i say large amount... in my case maybe 6 fl oz of ethanol. small runs. i will look into the math. and thanks for the link!

Clicks you just went from making a tiny wind tunnel to a full blown closed loop recycler. Check out the Tami its close to what your thinking of.
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/tamasium-concentrate-extractor.4993/

It would be too fuckin great to be able to recover solvents and not just vent them off.

yeah ive seen that thread. really nice, but a little much for my use. wind tunnel is what im after but i want to know its safe. unfortunately the only way i can see doing that is by spending hundreds. my research isnt over yet though!

Hey just popping in here because I recognized that fan. I don't know about the explosion proof, as I've never seen it advertised that way, but that's an inline blower and they do have the electronics on the outside like that. Designed to vent rooms so it has to be isolated from moisture in the air. If I'm not mistaken that particular brand in the pic is an Ecoplus and that one is probably a 4". Hard to tell from the pic. You can get them off eBay or any hydroponics store. Below is a link to a 6" one I found after a quick search. Probably way overkill for what you want but you can see how they are very similar. Even the stickers.
Ecoplus Supreme Inline Fan 6" 440 CFM - hydroponics fan blower exhaust

the problem is that even though the electronics are separate... its the motor drive that will still arc which is what we want to avoid. the arc is what spins the shaft of the motor. the way graywolf is using it seems pretty safe to me, but to seal that fan blade so close to the solvent could be dangerous.

thanks for sharing tho!

 

[vape4health]

Paint booth stuff could be a source for similar equipment too, just a thought.

 

[Puffers]

This thread has really had me thinking and doing some research for the past week or so as time has allowed. I was mentally trying to design a way to utilize the vac process to evaporate and then re condense your solvent for reclaim while in the low atmospheric conditions sans any heat. While doing some research I stumbled upon Vacuum Distillation processes and some are using condensors to reclaim the solvent. A home made rig is definitely feasible I think the hardest part would be dialing in the vacuum (depending on your equipment) to maintain a satisfactory level of atmosphere in the chamber without going to low and evaporate your solvent so quickly that your condenser doesn't have a chance to do its job. I would imagine this could be controlled fairly easily with a ball valve (or some other sort of regulator) on the vacuum device and on a barometric relief (tube to atmosphere to intoduce pressure and raise vacuum level). If you wanted to go crazy you could even control the vac with a pressure transducer and relay to maintain a certain range.

A cheap vacuum pump you can use is a refrigerator compressor that you an easily convert for the duty. You can find them on eBay or other places for about 40$, an appliance repair shop would probably let you have one for next to nothing if they plan to scrap it anyway.

Most of the links I have are on my other device I'll try and edit them in later but some googling on 'DIY vacuum pump' and 'homemade vacuum distillation' would get you started if interested.

An interesting homemade apparatus that would probably be more suited to butane I would guess (only because I don't know what level of vacuum it is capable of) then ethanol was in a thread I stumbled onto on mycotopia. It was using two mason jars one as the evap chamber and the other as the condensor in an ice bath with a brake bleeder to control the vaccum in the chamber.

Probably out of the scope of what your looking for but it would be heat less, safe, and economical once properly setup as you could reclaim your solvents. Just my but it's been fun researching and contemplating anyway. Thanks for the mental excerise .

 

[Puffers]

I still think that if all your looking for is a wind tunnel box. Then a positive flow fan using a good filter, with a gasketed damper that is either spring or barometric closed when the fan shuts off is the easiest way to go. I would probably go with a spring closed damper. Most barometric dampers from what I have seen are probably on the big side for your application but one could be made from a small gasketed damper that you weight yourself.
http://www.hvacquick.com/products/r...ust/Silencers/Spring-Loaded-Backdraft-Dampers

 

[2clicker]

damn Puffers nice work!

regarding the wind tunnel... you think a backdraft damper is enough to keep any fumes from possibly making it to the motor of the fan? i know the fan will be blowing the fumes away, but one would never be 100% the its totally safe.

 

[Puffers]

damn Puffers nice work!

regarding the wind tunnel... you think a backdraft damper is enough to keep any fumes from possibly making it to the motor of the fan? i know the fan will be blowing the fumes away, but one would never be 100% the its totally safe.

Well i was pondering that but theres a several factors to consider in this...It is going to depend on the density of the gas your evaporating compared to atmosphere, the strength of your fan, location of the damper, design of your box, location of your box (subject to drafts), etc. It appears that vapor density of ethanol is over 60% heavier then air.

So my assumption would be as long as your fan has the spring closed damper as close as possible and then fan is ducted a couple feet to the box maybe put a S shaped bend in the ducting to help mitigate back drafting even more. I would think you would be completely safe. Realistically to be hazardous it should take a short or a seizure of the motor while still electrically energized and a backdraft thru the box, ducting, and damper with enough velocity that it beats the damper closing. Realizing these factors we can mitigate many of them. You could put a small passive flap on the outlet of your box like a dryer vent that opens when the fan is on but closes to stop infiltration\backdrafts in your chamber. You can use the fan on a GFI outlet or even better wire an inline fuse for your fan that will pop if the motor over amps in an electrical fault or mechanical seizure.

 

[2clicker]

great input Puffers, thanks again.

so 60% heavier than air means that the vapor will sink to the ground correct? so what if the fan was suspended above the input of the chamber... connected with flex duct 2-3' away. so even if any fumes do get past the damper, they wont migrate upwards toward the fan. would it be best for the damper to be mounted at the chamber wall or directly after the fan?

i am imagining "filter > fan > flex duct > damper > chamber > damper > felx duct". or should the first damper be direct after the fan?

with the 2 dampers, duct, and chamber i suppose i would need to choose a fan with adequate power.

 

[Puffers]

great input Puffers, thanks again.

so 60% heavier than air means that the vapor will sink to the ground correct? Yes

so what if the fan was suspended above the input of the chamber... connected with flex duct 2-3' away. so even if any fumes do get past the damper, they wont migrate upwards toward the fan. would it be best for the damper to be mounted at the chamber wall or directly after the fan?

i am imagining "filter > fan > flex duct > damper > chamber > damper > felx duct". or should the first damper be direct after the fan? Basically although I would position the damper as close to the fan as possible so the fumes would have to backdraft farther to get to the fan

with the 2 dampers, duct, and chamber i suppose i would need to choose a fan with adequate power.

No problem man glad to help.

This is how I pictured it sorry for the crude diagram I am many things but an artist definitely isn't one of them


You are going to need a fan with adequate power if you need help sizing it just let me know I would be glad to assist. The biggest draw on your fan is going to be the filter. The filters pressure drop will depend on how restrictive it is and the amount of surface area that is being used. For instance hospitals and other critical air quality rooms typically use something called bag filters after a pre filter these bag filters may be 1-2 feet THICK so there is huge amount of surface area to collect particles but minimizes the load on the fan. I know this trying to be a budget friendly project so if you need some help putting some stuff together let me know. I don't know how cheap a small grow fan and one of those can grow filters would be. Maybe much more economical to look into an inline duct fan of 4-6" and size a filter appropriately to the fan. Just my on the fly while here at work . If you need some help crunching numbers on something your looking at just let me know.

 

[2clicker]

thanks again. i am currently looking into running ice/bubble and the. winterizing that. this would eliminate my need for this evap chamber altogether.

i wont need the chamber if im only evaping a little bit of ethanol.

 

[tuk]

If you do come back to this project, you might want to consider an outside low tech stealth solution, maybe something like a converted birdhouse, birdhouse on the outside with wind tunnel on the inside. If it was on a rotating pole it could be turned into the wind, install a wireless webcam inside for checking on progress. If breeze is an issue you could consider a solar powered pc fan to keep things moving along.

It might take longer than a direct fan method but is there a reason it has to be quick?

 

[Puffers]

If you do come back to this project, you might want to consider an outside low tech solution, maybe something like a converted birdhouse, birdhouse on the outside with wind tunnel on the inside. If it was on a rotating pole it could be turned into the wind, install a wireless webcam inside for checking on progress.

It might take longer than a direct fan method but is there a reason is has to be quick?

I like the concept but I would worry about dust in my product. Maybe some sort of turning vane driven by the stack effect on the top of the bird house extraction chamber with a bottom fed filter would work.... If heat wasn't a factor I would say a de-tuned solar oven for the win but bye bye terpenes .

 

[tuk]

Get creative with the intake and some ladies nylon stockings ...dust free operation.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

Right, I'm reviving this thread becuase I'm tired of having to do this with my window wide open (it's hot as hell where I live). @Puffers and @2clicker, the design you guys have so far I think is wonderful; I'm going to try and put on paper what you guys came up with into a finished product. Any ideas that expand what these two already came up with, please comment. I'm also thinking of designing it so I can still use my hot plate (I have a really good lab grade hot plate that I can control low temps with very easily).

 

[2clicker]

Right, I'm reviving this thread becuase I'm tired of having to do this with my window wide open (it's hot as hell where I live). @Puffers and @2clicker, the design you guys have so far I think is wonderful; I'm going to try and put on paper what you guys came up with into a finished product. Any ideas that expand what these two already came up with, please comment. I'm also thinking of designing it so I can still use my hot plate (I have a really good lab grade hot plate that I can control low temps with very easily).

what solvent do you use? id say this is a bad idea for evapping tane.

small amounts of ethanol or iso should be ok though. there is still a risk, but i cant imagine its very probable. may be worth spending the extra on an explosion proof fan.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

Aw c'mon @2clicker you know I'm a qwiso guy (will do qwet with the Kleen sometime soon), lol...no tane for me...have to do all this in my bedroom. I really think that the design @Puffers came up with really mitigates the chance of explosive vapor getting anywhere near a fan...and if I'm right, the amount of air flow through the chamber (and I'm talking quite a bit of flow) should carry most if not all the alcohol vapor out...even with a lab hot plate inside...what ya think?

edit: parts list so far...

Stack boot 6” round to 10” x 2.25” rectangle (for exhaust duct end to bottom of window so I only need the window 2.25")

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-10-in-x-3-1-4-in-to-6-in-Stack-Boot-SB10X3-25X6/100209803 $8.28

4” spring loaded backdraft damper (inflow)

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/r...ust/Silencers/Spring-Loaded-Backdraft-Dampers $9.25

6” spring loaded backdraft damper (outflow)

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/r...ust/Silencers/Spring-Loaded-Backdraft-Dampers $12.25

Some 4” and 6” tubing

Low density foam tape or closed-cell weather seal tape for sealing the bottom edge of the box

Silicone sealant or RTV for sealing input and output duct holes of box (and seams of the box if needed)

No clue what fan to get but it will need to be 4" diameter for the inlet tubing
No clue on material to build the box out of (I have tools for working on cars but not woodworking stuff) (worse comes to worse, if wood, I can buy the pieces and have home depot cut them).

I'll try a visio drawing and post.

 

[Puffers]

Aw c'mon @2clicker you know I'm a qwiso guy (will do qwet with the Kleen sometime soon), lol...no tane for me...have to do all this in my bedroom. I really think that the design @Puffers came up with really mitigates the chance of explosive vapor getting anywhere near a fan...and if I'm right, the amount of air flow through the chamber (and I'm talking quite a bit of flow) should carry most if not all the alcohol vapor out...even with a lab hot plat inside...what ya think?

I honestly think it would work fine. I would probably test it with a smoke stick or something similar to make sure that on shutdown of the fan there was no sort of backdraft through the system. I think with heavily weighted double barometric dampers (one for the fan and one the chamber outlet) on it to prevent backdrafting through the system it would work like a champ. I would weight heavy for a really quick close on shut down and use an inline fuse to quickly shut down the fan should it encounter any winding issues.

This is all my opinion and I don't want anyone blowing them selves up from a design I helped create so use at you own risk. I feel confident that the concept is solid as long as the proper testing and precautions are taken.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

I would never hold you or @2clicker responsible for anything. @Puffers please look back at the post as I edited I think after you responded. I'm also not too worried about it...I think with all in place and me sitting there with it (fire extinguisher at the ready) it will be safe. The fan and fuse part I'm not sure about what to do there.

 

[Puffers]

I would never hold you or @2clicker responsible for anything. @Puffers please look back at the post as I edited I think after you responded. I'm also not too worried about it...I think with all in place and me sitting there with it (fire extinguisher at the ready) it will be safe. The fan and fuse part I'm not sure about what to do there.

Say the fan is rated for 120v with a running amperage of 4 I would wire up an inline fuse of 4 amps so that just in case the windings start to fail and possibly arc (unlikely but possible) it will pop your online fuse and your not relying on a 20amp (or similar) breaker at the panel supplying that rooms receptacles.

The back draft dampers... I haven't ever used any like that I don't know how quickly they spring back. They would probably work fine but personally I would probably get a sealed damper and weight it myself for faster response sized to that particular fan in that particular application

 

[CrazyDiamond]

How about these @Puffers ?
http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=american-aldes_99-023&product=173852&CA_6C15C=405320241

edit: I just recalled that I while glancing at the spec sheets of either this one or another, I saw that it did not take much backflow at all to close....I want to say it was in the decimal cfm range.