Enail controller ?'s(design,quality,function,etc..)

[YabbaDABBAdo]

@Baron23 hey I was just messing around with tightening my dish cause I noticed a small gap in between the dish and coil. so I flipped the coil around, and tightened it back up and there was no gap this time which I think was effecting my heat transfer.
My question is does it matter which side of the coil faces up or down?
And if it doesn't matter should I set my pid setting back to stock and adjust from there?
Thanks man

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

@Baron23 hey I was just messing around with tightening my dish cause I noticed a small gap in between the dish and coil. so I flipped the coil around, and tightened it back up and there was no gap this time which I think was effecting my heat transfer.
My question is does it matter which side of the coil faces up or down?
And if it doesn't matter should I set my pid setting back to stock and adjust from there?
Thanks man

Let me clarify this there is a slight bend and after my coil where the coil rod goes to the cable I thought maybe since it was bent down that it would be the bottom of the coil facing downward. I might just be completely over thinking it though
Sorry for he dumb comment

 

[Baron23]

My question is does it matter which side of the coil faces up or down?

Not really. BUT, the thermocouple that sends temp readings back to the controller is in the very tip of the coil so, all else being equal, I like that to be closest to my dab surface. But, if the bend in the coil/cord transition makes it get in my way in that configuration, I would change it without worry.

On my Liger, the TC is at the top (the dab surface end) and my 'handle' dips downward.

Bigger issue is good contiguous contact between the coil and the nail/banger.

Not a dumb comment at all....but yes, perhaps over thinking it.

Get your coil nice and tight and see what performance you have. If you want, experiment with going back to default settings and see if it makes a difference in observable performance. By this point in time you are more experienced with setting Auber parameters than I am! LOL

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

@Baron23 or who ever might be able to help!!!well im back to having the same issues with my rdk-300. I'm hoping someone one here can help me out or should I start a new topic for help? I have contacted auber many times to no avail. After a 30 minute call they could not help, they keep stating it's the material making the temp drop approximately 25 degrees, but I have not heard of auber dropping 25 degrees each hit or any other controller. And they do not know how to adjust the pid for this type of issue they say try to find someone on here with experience with pid settings

When I had the issue somewhat fixed to drop about 10 degrees each hit auber said to drop the p vale till I saw it stable out. Well that worked until I got my sapphire insert and turned the temp up. When I did this my coil temp would stall out around 50-60 degrees below set value. So I contacted auber again and they said since I lowered my p value from the stock setting (125 to 70) it would do this, so I raised it back up to 125 and I reached target temp.

But still no matter what I am getting a 25 degree drop in temp no matter what size hit. I have tried switching the coil upside down and the same thing happens. Tried tightening and loosening the dish and nothing. So I am stumped

Set up - Rdk-300 (back to stock flat coil settings)- auber flat coil- dnail sim series nail - SiC halo dish- and sapphire insert

Anyone with experience or knowledge please feel free to comment

Thanks

 

[Hippie Dickie]

please delete. thanks.

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

please delete. thanks.[/QUOTE

wow that's nice a uptemp during a hit less loss in material And more even vape would be idea
my controller wattage is 100

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

Sorry dunno what going on with the posts but when I post from my phone it does weird shit like that

Wow an uptep during a hit would be ideal


But yea 100 Watts

 

[Hippie Dickie]

sorry, i think i was answering the wrong question - if Baron23 gets 1°F stability, it could be physical coil position, not PID.

 

[Baron23]

@Baron23 or who ever might be able to help!!!well im back to having the same issues with my rdk-300. I'm hoping someone one here can help me out or should I start a new topic for help? I have contacted auber many times to no avail. After a 30 minute call they could not help, they keep stating it's the material making the temp drop approximately 25 degrees, but I have not heard of auber dropping 25 degrees each hit or any other controller. And they do not know how to adjust the pid for this type of issue they say try to find someone on here with experience with pid settings

When I had the issue somewhat fixed to drop about 10 degrees each hit auber said to drop the p vale till I saw it stable out. Well that worked until I got my sapphire insert and turned the temp up. When I did this my coil temp would stall out around 50-60 degrees below set value. So I contacted auber again and they said since I lowered my p value from the stock setting (125 to 70) it would do this, so I raised it back up to 125 and I reached target temp.

But still no matter what I am getting a 25 degree drop in temp no matter what size hit. I have tried switching the coil upside down and the same thing happens. Tried tightening and loosening the dish and nothing. So I am stumped

Set up - Rdk-300 (back to stock flat coil settings)- auber flat coil- dnail sim series nail - SiC halo dish- and sapphire insert

Anyone with experience or knowledge please feel free to comment

Thanks

Wow, I don't know what to say. I run a Liger 2.0 20mm bucket with an Auber 300 and their 20mm coil and like I said, I get about 8-10 degree drop during dab with fairly quick recovery. I have not messed with the settings of my Auber since this performance meets my function requirements (that is, it boils off the dab nicely so why change anything).

Perhaps our resident PID expert will weigh in (yeah, putting you on the spot here, @mutten840, my friend! LOL) but he has recently tried to help some folks on FC and all he got for his efforts was a lot of blow back from those he was trying to help.

Perhaps he will dip into this thread with some ideas but he may not.

sorry, i think i was answering the wrong question - if Baron23 gets 1°F stability, it could be physical coil position, not PID.

I get one degree at steady state. I believe that the issue with @YabbaDABBAdo is the drop when he dabs. Again, may be coil tightness/position, size of dab, perhaps the controller. I dunno, to tell the truth. Getting out of my depth here quickly.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

sorry, again - i haven't read this thread carefully - i don't dab but was attracted to the PID issue.

my vape gains about 1°F per hit, but my heater is much lower mass, and i set my D term to be a little aggressive when temp is falling. i don't know anything about the auber Rdk-300 technology.

 

[mutten840]

@Hippie Dickie Here are a few docs that break down the functions and such. It might help you better wrap your head around what you are looking to achieve. With the Auber and other controllers. The most important thing is a snug coil. If you have play between your coil and the nail. You will have issues with temps jumping and such as the unit is not able to get a true reading due to the gap between it and the body of the nail. Other than that I know you can call or email Auber directly and they are really really good about helping out and just giving general help and tips. I would say check out the below links and if you still have questions. Then you might consider reaching out to them directly and reporting back to us what the outcome was =)


Sorry I don't have more to offer, but my Auber is so damn turn key. I never needed to mess with the settings other than changing the auto shutoff timer

Links:
http://auberins.com/images/Manual/RDK-300_supplementary.pdf

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/RDK-300.pdf

 

[Hippie Dickie]

thanks for the links ... i'm set with the controller i have - my coil makes good contact with the glass oven tube ... i can see that could be a problem with all that metal in the nail.

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

Damn then I don't know what the hell to do I have contacted auber they are great at help but they only know what to do by the information in the manual as soon as I asked what to change the settings to help had no clue how to help me they say to mess with the setting but only adjust the p value other than that I said I have been trying to get help on here and they suggest to continue to get help on here with someone that knows the pid settings and are familiar with the unit

I'm still having drops of 25° every dab no matter the size even the smallest it still drops 25° I have switched the coil upside down still The same issue. I have tightened the dish down as much as possible and nothing.

Also now when I turn my temperature up for the Sapphire insert it stalls out around 50° below the set temperature when I contacted auber they said to raise the P value nothing has happened but after the unit has been on for A couple hours it will stabilize out back to set temperature equal to actual temperature

I am totally stumped and honestly ready to find a different controller that is more stable anyone have any suggestions or if anyone out there does know how to adjust the PID settings then please let me know

Thanks

 

[Hippie Dickie]

okay, two things about PID -

(1) if it takes a long time to reach setpoint, then "I" coefficient is too small - "I" is the sum of the error (Integral), as the accumulated error increases, extra power is given to the coil to reduce the sum of the errors. (if below the setpoint)

(2) with the highly asymmetric response of these heating coils, particularly at >400°F, the PID algorithm is very sensitive, so my factors are very conservative to keep oscillations under control, while being balanced for reasonable speed to attain setpoint at startup, as well as reasonably quick response to changes in setpoint. Except for my D value which increases temp during a hit - but only a smidgeon. and just because having >100 watts of power on tap is awesome.

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

Ok so I adjusted the P value and raised it up to 160 at a temperature of 780° Set temperature and actual temperature are correct yet now I am having a temperature drop of 35 to 40° so I've now understand where to set the P value for my desired temperature but I am still confused about what value to adjust to not get a drop of such a drastic temperature

 

[Hippie Dickie]

double the current value of D and see what happens.

 

[Baron23]

Ok so I adjusted the P value and raised it up to 160 at a temperature of 780° Set temperature and actual temperature are correct yet now I am having a temperature drop of 35 to 40° so I've now understand where to set the P value for my desired temperature but I am still confused about what value to adjust to not get a drop of such a drastic temperature

@YabbaDABBAdo - I'm glad that @Hippie Dickie is helping you with PID as he knows way more about this than I.

But I do go back to the fact that @mutten840 and I run Auber 300's with Ligers and have never needed to touch the factory default settings on the Auber PID.

I would continue to look at coil fit...that is, does your flat coil cover all of the territory where it meets the nail. I don't know anything about D-nails and certainly don't want to tell you to really crank down on the mechanism for tightening it up as I also just don't know how much a sapphire halo can take.

@herbivore21 - you own and use D-nail halos with sapphire, I believe. Any tips for fitting coil and nail together that may be helpful here?

 

[herbivore21]

@YabbaDABBAdo - I'm glad that @Hippie Dickie is helping you with PID as he knows way more about this than I.

But I do go back to the fact that @mutten840 and I run Auber 300's with Ligers and have never needed to touch the factory default settings on the Auber PID.

I would continue to look at coil fit...that is, does your flat coil cover all of the territory where it meets the nail. I don't know anything about D-nails and certainly don't want to tell you to really crank down on the mechanism for tightening it up as I also just don't know how much a sapphire halo can take.

@herbivore21 - you own and use D-nail halos with sapphire, I believe. Any tips for fitting coil and nail together that may be helpful here?

The halo assembly is dead simple and does not require tightening. In fact, over tightening will lead to expansion breaking the sapphire! Only tighten the coil to the sapphire halo finger tight so it only barely stops moving when you've finished tightening it. Make sure to get a dnail coil as I know a number of cheaper vendors coils vary in thickness and may have issues. Any controller should be fine so long as you have a coil that suits

The temp drop the op is getting is not normal from my experiences and this is not going to be a problem with nail assembly, only the liger tends to cause these issues I am afraid this is likely to be down to the coil or controller (the latter is more likely).

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

I am using the Sic halo dish with sapphire insert not the sapphire halo dish. I have checked and there is no gap between the dish and coil either way I have the coil flipped. I have tightened it as tight as I feel comfortable with witch is pretty tight

@Hippie Dickie i turned the d value to double and nothing still dropping 20ish degrees so I raised it to 35 and nothing

@herbivore21 if getting the dnail coil would help then I certainly would get it the issue is I have no clue on wireing the pin connectors from there set up to aubers

 

[herbivore21]

I am using the Sic halo dish with sapphire insert not the sapphire halo dish. I have checked and there is no gap between the dish and coil either way I have the coil flipped. I have tightened it as tight as I feel comfortable with witch is pretty tight

@Hippie Dickie i turned the d value to double and nothing still dropping 20ish degrees so I raised it to 35 and nothing

@herbivore21 if getting the dnail coil would help then I certainly would get it the issue is I have no clue on wireing the pin connectors from there set up to aubers

I believe auber use the same pin arrangement as d-nail so the coils would be compatible (please double check this, note that I've stopped short of saying that I am sure of this!). However, I believe working on the controller calibration is the wiser starting point. I've never had such issues though as I use a d-nail controller (with this being said, the controller was never specifically calibrated for halos and was purchased long before any halo came out). I must admit, I do not even look at my controller or the numbers on it when I dab so I have no idea what my temp drop would be.

SiC getting a 40 degree temp dip is strange man, but 20 degrees not so much. If you can get it down more with tuning, I think that will be the solution.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i turned the d value to double and nothing still dropping 20ish degrees so I raised it to 35 and nothing

if there is no change, then i don't know - could be physical surface contact, could be bad controller, could be normal operating mode ... my PID is totally custom so what do i know?

 

[herbivore21]

Wow, I don't know what to say. I run a Liger 2.0 20mm bucket with an Auber 300 and their 20mm coil and like I said, I get about 8-10 degree drop during dab with fairly quick recovery. I have not messed with the settings of my Auber since this performance meets my function requirements (that is, it boils off the dab nicely so why change anything).

Perhaps our resident PID expert will weigh in (yeah, putting you on the spot here, @mutten840, my friend! LOL) but he has recently tried to help some folks on FC and all he got for his efforts was a lot of blow back from those he was trying to help.

The reason for the lesser temp drop on the liger dial is not because the liger dish loses less heat when you apply a dab to it, but more that the temp is measured from a thermocouple which is encased in titanium much further from the dish and the cooling of the dab hitting your dish is not necessarily so readily noticed at the point where the thermocouple is (on the side of the bucket, not on the floor of it). A d-nail halo is sitting directly atop the coil/thermocouple and so the thermocouple notices the temp dip more and in turn attempts to compensate it more. Temp drop comparisons on the dial between such different designs are not useful IMO as they relate differently to function given the design.

 

[Baron23]

@herbivore21 - hello, my friend. Yes indeed, the Liger is a big damn heat sink and I would agree that this mitigates temp drop upon dabbing.

@YabbaDABBAdo - Auber and D-nail pin outs are the same. 5 pin XLR connector with: pins 1 & 2 = AC power, pins 3 & 4 = thermocouple +/-, pin 5 = ground.

Should work just fine.

At this point, I'm stumped as the Auber is dead simple to use directly with factory defaults. Perhaps a bad TC in the coil or a defective unit??

 

[YabbaDABBAdo]

Hey guys just wanted to give an update and say thanks for all your help, but I have still not fixed or gotten close to correcting the temperature drop of 25°, (or more now since I have the temp turned up to 778° for the sapphire insert). So I still have no clue what to do but from what I have gathered from D-nail Auber and other information I have found titanium retains heat much greater than SiC. So since all the PID settings are calibrated with titanium and I am using SiC there should be a greater drop in temperature.
(please let me know if this sounds wrong)

Also guys I have some questions on the liger not to change the subject, just looking to get some info on the 20 mm vs flat coil version. What's the difference between the two besides the different coil uses/size, which one performs better? I dab all day from wake to sleep and depending on what ailment is bothering me to the size of a dab usually about .04-.06 a gram every dab and then the occasional larger one .1 to get me relaxed but I'm not really a globber nothing more than .2 and I usually use a smaller size recycler due to the size ,ease and feel of the hit, just wondering the weight and size difference between the 20mm vs flat.
Then what is the difference between the carb caps on how they sit,seal,and fit on the nail. What cap is best for which nail 20 vs flat

Again thanks for all the help

 

[jojo monkey]

@YabbaDABBAdo What numbers are in P,I,D? The manual shows an "ot" and "oth" too. Knowing those would be interesting.