Edibles from mouldy weed?
- Thread starter sativasam
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wouldn't risk it, can't be shure that the mould toxins are destroyed by the heat.
same goes for trying to extract with solvents, toxins can also go into the solvent.
had to compost a lot of bud due to bad weather (rlly the best solution i found
), there is no home doable method that would make me feel safe, it hurts but better to be save than sorry...
same goes for trying to extract with solvents, toxins can also go into the solvent.
had to compost a lot of bud due to bad weather (rlly the best solution i found
), there is no home doable method that would make me feel safe, it hurts but better to be save than sorry...
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killick
But I like it!
Don't ask how I know, but my doctor buddy says humans can consume a lot of mould before experiencing issues. I'd be fine with it myself, especially making budder or something where it's a small amount of the end product. But thats just me, and I'm sure there will be all sorts of positions on this 
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
It depends on the mold. Some molds carry toxic compounds and disease. You need to be able to identify the mold first. Good luck getting an expert's scientific identification of mold in the OP's jurisdictionDon't ask how I know, but my doctor buddy says humans can consume a lot of mould before experiencing issues. I'd be fine with it myself, especially making budder or something where it's a small amount of the end product. But thats just me, and I'm sure there will be all sorts of positions on this
KidneyStoner
Well-Known Member
Smoke it, no, I would not. Make some bubble hash out of it. All that mold will filter out through the bubble bags.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
As the resident full melt maker here, I would not recommend this unless you have a set of old shitty bags that you keep in quarantine which you don't mind being contaminated with mold. Same goes for bubble machines etc, don't use your main machine as it can be very difficult to sterilize all surfaces and prevent the mold from subsequently contaminating future runs.
Otherwise, it is true that mold can be at least somewhat removed with bubble hash technique. I still can't stress enough that all bud should be inspected thoroughly before purchase and mold or evidence of early mold should be grounds for instant rejection of said product.
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Please not - mould can have similar shape and size of tricome stems!
Health is worth more then a ton of mouldy weed or somehow less mouldy extracts from it
Health is worth more then a ton of mouldy weed or somehow less mouldy extracts from it
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Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Do you know the source? One plant was recently infected by Botrytis, the most common mold (caught early, in this case). We've all seen this growing on fresh fruits, especially grapes. If this is what it was, it probably makes sense to treat it as you would moldy fruit. No idea whether especially toxic molds also infect plants, so be careful.
Of Botrytis, Wikipedia says:
Of Botrytis, Wikipedia says:
killick
But I like it!
It depends on the mold. Some molds carry toxic compounds and disease. You need to be able to identify the mold first. Good luck getting an expert's scientific identification of mold in the OP's jurisdiction
If he has some form of bud mould, and admittedly I have no training in the matter, but wouldn't it be the same genus of mould that other growers in the same region would experience? Do many people drop dead from mouldy weed ingestion in the a?
Mould from bread or other foodstuffs is still suitable for consumption, it may not be as nice as we'd like.
I'm reading an older article from USA Today on recalled yogurt.
1. Are molds dangerous?
Some foods have mold that is safe to eat and even delicious. For example, Brie cheese has surface mold. Other molds trigger allergic reactions and respiratory problems. A few molds produce mycotoxins, which are poisonous substances.
3. Does the mold found in the Chobani yogurt pose a public health threat?
Mucor circinelloides, the type of mold found in the yogurt, is commonly associated with fruits, vegetables and dairy, the FDA's Ward says. "It has been reported to cause spoilage like swelling and bloating in yogurt," she adds.
"This mold should not pose a health risk to most consumers," Ward says. It can act as a pathogen (an agent that causes disease) "very rarely" and "usually only for people with compromised immune systems through inhalation," she adds.
4. What would happen if you accidentally ate mold in yogurt?
"Most people will just excrete it; they won't notice anything," says David Heber, a professor in the UCLA Department of Medicine. "You might have some gastrointestinal upset like nausea and diarrhea, but it would be transient."
The mold would pass through the body, Heber says. "It wouldn't take up residence unless someone has a compromised immune system," he adds.
It does go on to say that you should never knowingly ingest mouldy foodstuffs, but in reality the risk of injury from ingestion isn't that bad. If someone were in a situation where it were mouldy food or none at all, what would someone do? Purely hypothetical, of course, I'm just not a fan of tossing something that still has some viability left in it...
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
The source of the mold contamination will determine the kind of mold that innoculates. There are all kinds of sources of mold contamination in a given location which may give rise to risk of contamination from any number of different molds found in that place. There is a dizzying array of kinds of molds out there - I know of a variety of different molds which can affect cannabis plants, and to truly identify what one is dealing with is not as simple as guessing on the basis of the mold that another local grower might have found.
The first two quotes above this one highlight why this third quote is problematic bro. If there are molds that can be poisonous or cause allergic reactions/breathing problems, those are a risk of injury or ill health and should be avoided, especially with cannabis that is being inhaled in the case of respiratory/allergy related risks. It doesn't meant that people are going to drop dead, but it means that it isn't a wise thing to expose yourself to indeterminate mold. The risks above are often greater for vulnerable cohorts too, like immunosuppressed patients.
KidneyStoner
Well-Known Member
True. I make my own share of bubble hash as well, been doing it for years. I can see why you would suggest using different bags though.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Wonderful to hear my friend, please do share pics of your bubble if you get a chance, it is always wonderful to meet other hash enthusiasts
KidneyStoner
Well-Known Member
Wonderful to hear my friend, please do share pics of your bubble if you get a chance, it is always wonderful to meet other hash enthusiasts
One of these days ill post some pics. I also make wax and oils as well.
killick
But I like it!
@herbivore21 All great points. I'm still not convinced tho. In much the same fashion as who don't use 'food grade' solvents there is simply a requirement to be both aware of what you are doing, as well as taking such steps to reduce risks as much as possible. But risk removal doesn't mean tossing everything out. There are still things that can be made with it. If it was one massive blob of mould that would be a bit different, but it would still work for topicals, and hence beneficial in some fashion.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Believe me man, I know, but my points above still stand. There are potential health risks and one should always reject moldy material if you have absolutely any other option. Others can make their own decision, but I would not advise the use of moldy material online, since vulnerable populations may follow my advice.
grokit
well-worn member
Don't forget about rye bread mold/ergot fungus, it has some interesting 'semi-toxic' properties 
killick
But I like it!
So I'm kinda looking for a forum where we can discuss 'edgy' topics, such as this, without defaulting straight to 'toss it out' mindset. I was on another group and watched some tremendous arguments about ISO safety. Some people were pro ISO, others vehemently anti, and the best part is many of the 'anti' group just knew it was bad, but didn't know why. It's hard to speak from a position of knowledge when you don't have any.
I'd rather cut through the pro/anti argument and discuss actual ways to do things safely, if that makes any sense. If for no other reason than the paper exercise. There are a great number of people who don't mind flirting with disaster. Heck, some of us did it professionally for a number of years, which is probably part of the issue...
So, hypothetically, North Korea has dropepd a bomb somewhere. You are living in a cave - just you, 500 lbs of weed, and whatever lab eqpt you can scrounge from the local 7-11. Your weed is a bit mouldy, but you can't just pop to the shop to pick up more - you have what you have... What would you do with it?
I'd rather cut through the pro/anti argument and discuss actual ways to do things safely, if that makes any sense. If for no other reason than the paper exercise. There are a great number of people who don't mind flirting with disaster. Heck, some of us did it professionally for a number of years, which is probably part of the issue...
So, hypothetically, North Korea has dropepd a bomb somewhere. You are living in a cave - just you, 500 lbs of weed, and whatever lab eqpt you can scrounge from the local 7-11. Your weed is a bit mouldy, but you can't just pop to the shop to pick up more - you have what you have... What would you do with it?
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
In the hypothetical scenario you suggested, I would first be pulling apart every single nug and inspecting the centre calyxes for mold (IME, mold takes hold inside the densest, largest colas first, closer towards the stem before spreading to the distal calyxes/leaves). Everything that has actual visible mold on it is first quarantined from the rest. Even innocuous, non-toxic molds like botrytis cinerea can mean that anything with full blown mold (usually a fur of one shade or another) should be discarded - the reason is simple, botrytis destroys resin. However, usually botrytis will be noticed before everything is affected, which is why we separate anything visibly mold affected to begin with. Anything not visibly mold affected will need to be kept in a freezer or incredibly dry conditions (ideally <55% RH) to prevent any spores from becoming more full-blown mold.
Then, if you can find the bags etc, a bubble run of the non visibly affected material is what I would recommend - using separate bags/machine etc as outlined above would be another recommendation I'd normally make as above, but in our apocalyptic scenario is probably not relevant lol, since it seems that the 500lbs is all of the cannabis left on earth
Otherwise, I'd still probably look into a way to use water to separate the resin, since mold tends to float while resin sinks. This is not fool-proof and may not prevent any contamination of mold over time, but is the best case for our hypothetical post-apocalyptic vaporist
Storing the resulting hash in frozen/ultra dry conditions as above will further protect it from any mold taking hold - as will obviously drying that hash immaculately prior to storage.I need to spell this out although it is clear in my above posts: for all who are reading this post out of context, this is a hypothetical situation and I do not recommend that people use moldy bud for any purpose if there is any other alternative.
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I mean your health and the risks you take with it are up to your own judgement but even if the weed was free I'd never risk it, personally.
@killick As for "discuss actual ways to do things safely" you're not going to get that from the people like me in the mindset that you kinda can't do it safely. So you're really gonna just hear people like me saying that it sounds sketchy and people less worried that say yeah, seems fine. There's not too much middle ground there because you're either comfortable with it or you're not.
For me, this idea goes against the whole point of vaping. A lot of us vape because evidence seems to show that it's healthier than smoking, so if we're trying to be healthier why on earth would we knowingly consume mold? Where's the value in saving a couple bucks on moldy weed vs the possible health risks? Zero in my book, but ymmv.
@killick As for "discuss actual ways to do things safely" you're not going to get that from the people like me in the mindset that you kinda can't do it safely. So you're really gonna just hear people like me saying that it sounds sketchy and people less worried that say yeah, seems fine. There's not too much middle ground there because you're either comfortable with it or you're not.
For me, this idea goes against the whole point of vaping. A lot of us vape because evidence seems to show that it's healthier than smoking, so if we're trying to be healthier why on earth would we knowingly consume mold? Where's the value in saving a couple bucks on moldy weed vs the possible health risks? Zero in my book, but ymmv.
Mycotoxins can be soluble in ISO, so they might be concentrated even more
- guess the next apocalypse will be made by zombies who vape full melt mould..
So only for the apocalypse - stainless steel screen racks are better to clean than bubblebags, so maybe dry sieving and afterwards fractionation in a water column could be easier, if the Z's don't get u till then
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sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
I have no experience with growing or storing cannabis (except for my monthy allotment).
I do, however have a TON of experience with making Green Dragon Tinctures using 190 proof ethanol (95%).
I use the recipe that can be found on GrassCity called Another Tincture thread (PM me for more info)
I would be shocked if ethanol would extract mold from the cannabis rather than kill the mold.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
I do, however have a TON of experience with making Green Dragon Tinctures using 190 proof ethanol (95%).
I use the recipe that can be found on GrassCity called Another Tincture thread (PM me for more info)
I would be shocked if ethanol would extract mold from the cannabis rather than kill the mold.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Bold statement when some molds feed on ethanol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudoinia_compniacensis
Baudoinia species use ethanol for their carbon nutrition, however growth rates suggest that this is not their only source of calories. Ethanol in vapour form also accelerates the growth of the fungus and stimulates spore germination. The ability to withstand high temperatures and therefore colonize habitats such as roofing, may be explained by the observation that ethanol vapour stimulates the formation of special heat-protective proteins that prevent cells from being killed under these relatively extreme conditions.[3]
It might not even be a good anti-fungal in general:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4483703/#!po=0.666667
The aim of this study was to assess the relative efficacies of five commercially available cleaning agents with published or anecdotal use for indoor fungal remediation. The five agents included two common multi-purpose industrial disinfectants (Cavicide® and Virkon®), 70% ethanol, vinegar (4.0%−4.2% acetic acid), and a plant-derived compound (tea tree (Melaleuca alternifolia) oil) tested in both a liquid and vapour form. Tea tree oil has recently generated interest for its antimicrobial efficacy in clinical settings, but has not been widely employed for fungal remediation. Each antifungal agent was assessed for fungal growth inhibition using a disc diffusion method against a representative species from two common fungal genera, (Aspergillus fumigatus and Penicillium chrysogenum), which were isolated from air samples and are commonly found in indoor air. Tea tree oil demonstrated the greatest inhibitory effect on the growth of both fungi, applied in either a liquid or vapour form. Cavicide® and Virkon® demonstrated similar, although less, growth inhibition of both genera. Vinegar (4.0%–4.2% acetic acid) was found to only inhibit the growth of P. chrysogenum, while 70% ethanol was found to have no inhibitory effect on the growth of either fungi.
The general background and why greater concentrations may not be more effective:
Ethanol is widely used for general surface disinfecting and has reported biocidal efficacy against bacteria, fungi and viruses in the concentration range of 50%–90% [34]. In the current study, 70% was found to be completely ineffective as an antifungal agent against common airborne fungal genera. In contrast, in the food industry, ethanol has been shown to inhibit mould growth on bread, which is usually spoiled by Penicillium, Aspergillus, and Cladosporium [35]. It has also been used to prevent postharvest decay of fruits [15,36]. Ethanol vapour was found to inhibit germination of the fungal conidia (Penicillium chrysogenum) isolated from pastry products, but this was found to be reversible over time as some spores remained viable [37]. Ethanol interacts with cellular membranes increasing membrane permeability and causing leakage of solutes and cell lysis. Higher concentrations of ethanol are required to kill fungal spores than bacteria, which show a maximum kill efficacy of 70% ethanol [34]. Dao et al. [38] found that ethanol as both a liquid and vapour could significantly inactivate fungal spores (Penicillium chrysogenum, P. digitatum, and P. italicum) and recommended further investigation into the use of ethanol vapour in place of ethanol solution to prevent mould growth in workplaces.
So, when there may be a fungus among us, we should not start rumbling in the jungle until there is a good estimate on what the particular fungus is.
(For those too young to know why that last sentence was so oddly written. )
even if it kills the mold, that doesn't mean it's toxic products disappear
that goes for any other solvent too, as long as u don't know what u are dealing with
killick
But I like it!
Thanks - I do get it. But it's so simple to say 'toss it' without actually knowing the details of things. Almost anything can be done in a safe manner, which involves time, or money, or both. In many instances it's the cost of remediation that makes the 'toss it' decision most viable. Many people have entire careers where all they do is mitigate risk, and in my mind thats exactly what these types of questions will bring out - instead of a knee-jerk 'toss it' it's much more important to know the details of why it should be tossed. I get this straight in my own brainbox by understanding what mechanisms would be required to make the product safe for consumption.
Here in Canada we (technically) get all our herbal products from Licensed Providers. Several of these, one purporting to be organic (OrganiGram no less) were caught using banned pesticides and chemicals on their herb. There is a class action against these LPs for that reason - people with compromised immune systems, due to chemicals, drugs, burn pits, etc are now experiencing new lung symptoms from vaping organic herb. One LP I use their product is only used for topicals and medibles as their response to the 'what chemicals do you guys use' wasn't very comforting. I'm sure it's vapable, but I don't wanna. So this is what I've been using for bubble, sift, tincs, experimenting - anything to clean it up a bit more.
In the apocalyptic scenario as above, and as our illustrious Herbie alludes to, I'd likely be inclined to use a form of blender tech, assuming the spores stay on the top and the headies sink to the bottom, and then see what the output looks like before taking next steps. If this is just for a few mouldy buds a blender experiment might be a good use of 10 minutes of time?
Would the mould spores be visible in any concentration on the surface? I'm asking as I've seen 1/2 acre pollen blobs on the local lake in spring - the first time I thought this was how most horror movies start, but it turns out it's normal...