Early adopters, beta testers, and paid promotion

[Cheebsy]

There seems to be a growing animosity towards early adopters or beta testers which I think it mostly unfair and I suspect comes from jealousy and ego.

There are a few obvious paid promotors in this community, from my perspective I mostly ignore those views in favour of community discussion. I do believe those channels are a great place for the uninitiated to learn some of the complexities of vaping especially regarding styles of vapes and what they bring to the table but I don't think device specific details are that close to my experience to give that much credence but for someone with similar tastes to the reviewer that's probably not true. Having said that, sometimes community members seem to have skin in the game that isn't declared. This is true of most of modern life with the current trend in influencers and other styles of marketing. As consumers we just need to try to pick up on that to add or remove weight from a particular perspective.

Early adoption and beta testing are quite similar. I think this is driven by an enthusiasm for new and alternative devices, but also as a way to promote ones position in the community. This often comes with perks for the user, whether that's perceived exclusivity, financial benefits by offering reduced prices, or additional accessories. It also has perks for manufacturers, it's an opportunity for then to get opinions from across the community, which is very important when we consider how personal vape choice and preference actually is. I think it's correct that a device with no track record has introductory offers, nothing too unusual there either. I don't think that those Introductory offers always require a biased online opinion, but there is incentive to do this if it keeps you in with the "in crowd" and able to test the next big thing. That's another thing as consumers we sometimes need to be aware of to measure a particular users response with that in mind.

I'm not intending this post to be specific to particular individuals, but as a place to discuss how we feel about how new products are introduced.

As a community member you feel privileged to be able to get involved with a product early on, especially if it's design excites you. It would be a tragedy if the enthusiasm of early adopters is more often seen as suspicious marketing activity and I would like it to stop! I'm perfectly capable of deciding if I want to listen to a point of view or not without risking forcing true community driven members from keeping thier views to themselves.

 

[Knewt]

There seems to be a growing animosity towards early adopters or beta testers which I think it mostly unfair and I suspect comes from jealousy and ego.

There are a few obvious paid promotors in this community, from my perspective I mostly ignore those views in favour of community discussion. I do believe those channels are a great place for the uninitiated to learn some of the complexities of vaping especially regarding styles of vapes and what they bring to the table but I don't think device specific details are that close to my experience to give that much credence but for someone with similar tastes to the reviewer that's probably not true. Having said that, sometimes community members seem to have skin in the game that isn't declared. This is true of most of modern life with the current trend in influencers and other styles of marketing. As consumers we just need to try to pick up on that to add or remove weight from a particular perspective.

Early adoption and beta testing are quite similar. I think this is driven by an enthusiasm for new and alternative devices, but also as a way to promote ones position in the community. This often comes with perks for the user, whether that's perceived exclusivity, financial benefits by offering reduced prices, or additional accessories. It also has perks for manufacturers, it's an opportunity for then to get opinions from across the community, which is very important when we consider how personal vape choice and preference actually is. I think it's correct that a device with no track record has introductory offers, nothing too unusual there either. I don't think that those Introductory offers always require a biased online opinion, but there is incentive to do this if it keeps you in with the "in crowd" and able to test the next big thing. That's another thing as consumers we sometimes need to be aware of to measure a particular users response with that in mind.

I'm not intending this post to be specific to particular individuals, but as a place to discuss how we feel about how new products are introduced.

As a community member you feel privileged to be able to get involved with a product early on, especially if it's design excites you. It would be a tragedy if the enthusiasm of early adopters is more often seen as suspicious marketing activity and I would like it to stop! I'm perfectly capable of deciding if I want to listen to a point of view or not without risking forcing true community driven members from keeping thier views to themselves.

I really need to ask, are you being paid or otherwise compensated for this wise advice?

 

[gordontreeman]

I think the issue is when folks aren’t up front about it. Everyone that I chat with who frequents fc or any other community for vape enthusiasts is looking for opinions from people who are just also enthusiasts. When we get into this early adopter/“beta tester” (I use the term loosely as I don’t think it accurately describes what is going on anymore) thing it’s hard for me to believe those opinions are coming from the same place. In a lot of cases it seems like they are only overwhelmingly positive reviews, presumably to keep their spot with the “in crowd” of “testers.” I also can’t imagine it’s useful feedback to a manufacturer to have a bunch of yes men (it’s how The Phantom Menace was made ), but I guess everyone needs a pick-me-up here and there.

If people disclose this up front I have no qualms with it. I can decide what to do with the opinion, and a small artisan has to get the word out somehow. When it’s presented as just another enthusiast opinion is where I personally think it becomes problematic and engenders some hostility—obviously some places are much less tolerant of it than others.

Let’s not pretend these motives don’t matter. Troy and Bud still list the mighty as their best vape pick on their “best of” lists, and I think most here wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. With them I know that there are some financial incentives to say that, though. I don’t want to get advice from someone who’s opinion is muddied by a desire to get the next hot new thing or whatever might be the case, while thinking I am just getting their opinion based on trying a bunch of different vapes and sharing their opinion, warts and all.

As a final thought, like @Cheebsy said after hanging on fc for a few years I can discern some of this myself, but a newbie doesn’t have this kind of “institutional knowledge.” I imagine that is another reason for the hostility and why it might be better to be pretty explicit about any relationships one might have with a manufacturer, no matter how tenuous you personally think it is.

 

[Shit Snacks]

When we get into this early adopter/“beta tester” (I use the term loosely as I don’t think it accurately describes what is going on anymore) thing it’s hard for me to believe those opinions are coming from the same place. In a lot of cases it seems like they are only overwhelmingly positive reviews, presumably to keep their spot with the “in crowd” of “testers.” I also can’t imagine it’s useful feedback to a manufacturer to have a bunch of yes men

Hey bud, yeah if people disclose everything hopefully no one else would have issues but it's understandable people wouldn't like feeling misled when they are not aware inside patterns etc ...

I think we should start a thread in the Vapor Lounge or similar if we want to continue this discussion and keep this about the device, but I did want to respond to @Shit Snacks and some of the other folks.

Also bringing in your post from the BAK thread here where it might be a bit more on topic for me to respond to now?

First, I think we're abusing the term "beta tester" when we use it in this community. Maybe I'm naive or misinformed and there is a lot of back and forth, negative feedback, and iteration from the manufacturer on a product before it gets released that we just don't see. It doesn't seem like that with most of the recent devices and their crowds of "beta testers" though--it seems like they just got a device early for the express purpose of generating hype. Even if there aren't specific instructions to promote it on social media it seems pretty obvious to me that its the intent. Its a little more palatable here when it is people chiming in on a dedicated thread for the device that the manufacturer started. The threads on reddit were of someone's video taking a hit with an obscured device and saying, "coming soon." I just don't see how that is helpful beta feedback. In both cases the intent seems clear to me, though--its about getting people excited.

I disagree, it can mean whatever we want it to mean, in the context of these vapes, there's a lot of different forms of beta test I've seen over the years with different products... And I don't think it's that dissimilar from other enthusiast product communities honestly?

I also disagree it is obvious the intent is to post on other social media, I think enthusiasts are enthusiastic about products, if they are allowed to talk about the beta they are usually very vocal but it also is not universal, some people don't like to do that especially with a beta, so I think it comes down to individual people, just like individual people will presume whatever they do about other individual people...

There was and is back and forth, excited people like to get other people excited, and to be fair as I said earlier, I'm someone who would like to know about these things, I know how to take them with a grain of salt depending who is giving me the info, which is other enthusiasts in these cases so I disagree that is part of the intent of a beta test this way... It was kept under apps and people were permitted to start teasing, how they chose to do that, well obviously controversial lol

Its also not that I (personally, I've seen some heated comments on reddit) think there is a nefarious conspiracy where lamart or someone else is bankrolling a bunch of people. Its that like someone else mentioned, the connection and relationship with a manufacturer for some fringe benefit--and I think in this case its hard to argue with a straight face that getting a Lamart device without having to go through the drop process isn't a huge benefit worth quite a bit more than a $20 discount and stem--calls into credibility the motives and biases of the poster. Especially when its a lot of the same faces beta testing devices over and over again.

I would happily admit I am friendly with the manufacturer and have been with others, I don't think that has colored my impression of the device ultimately, I have been hard on them when it was called for, perhaps sometimes I go easy on them in certain cases depending on those situations, it is for the reader to the side if I am biased ultimately... And I also totally disagree about the benefit of avoiding the drop process, again this was a new device to test, we were the ones who encouraged it to be released to the general public, that it was ready we confirmed... And I have no qualms with the drop process especially as it is now, I've been successful from the very first one to the previous most recent one, so that's not even remotely a benefit in my own eyes at least.

And it was mentioned in the BAK thread about the inherent risk of testing, discount and free accessories, choosing color without drop process etc, potentially having to send back at your own expense or having other problems with the beta products as they are... I think it's easy to discount these aspects from the outside especially if they're not common however it really sucks to deal with them when they happen to you so just perspective imo

I think to some extent the first part is inevitable and natural with smaller artisan makers. I just think they might be better served with a more transparent process to solicit early adopters to help with word-of-mouth advertising. When its people with relationships or receiving fringe benefits coming here or to Reddit (where again, I think most people are assuming they are talking with fellow enthusiasts and not someone with a potential bias due to a relationship or desire to keep receiving reduced price or hard-to-get items early) and not disclosing that fact it leaves a bad taste in people's mouth, and certainly makes me question how much I can trust feedback from some of my fellow members. I'm sure some will disagree with my take, but personally while I might enjoy chatting with them there are lots of people here and on reddit who's opinions I just don't value anymore--it seems clear that they are more concerned with continuing to be an early adopter than with having objective and unbiased discussion of vapes

That is how many artisan makers have begun here, if you look at old threads, it often doesn't sustain itself unfortunately, and in this specific case it's not about advertising when it's not even a new artisan maker...

Anyway that's the great thing about the internet and having so many different people with different opinions, I don't think regular reviews are beneficial, but if you are following specific people and you know them more, you can know the style and what you trust and like etc... I think you can decide for yourself if someone is posting simply to get more benefits for the future? Afraid to say anything negative?? I have never had that issue, I've definitely said negative things where I felt comfortable in my testing of products or reviewing free, I trust others to do so as well but I know some don't and ultimately it is on the consumer to decide what they believe... That's why it's nice to have a place like FC with the rules in place to help protect for these things more, but there's only so much that can be done keeping freedom too? Early adopting is a tricky thing in general sometimes very appealing sometimes not at all and you never know positive or negative or someone's intent ultimately

Apologies if this isn't clear or comes off overly antagonistic. Its not meant that way. I've imbibed some myself and I'm just trying to share my thoughts. Again though I feel like this ought to be for the device so we should take it to PMs or a new thread if we want to discuss this trend in this community further.

Yeah my thoughts got a little off rambling there not trying to be contrarian with you, but sharing some counter points I think!

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

I think there's also a lot of gray area here, where it's not deceptive and there's no pragmatic motivation to not disclose you got a better deal, while still promoting the device. If @Shit Snacks gets a better deal on Prophet glass piece while they're also "plugging" it online, I don't expect such details to be disclosed. @Shit Snacks has mentioned more than once they helped in the design, it is understandable if there's some incentive for that (not saying there are).

Also it's just not possible or at least disruptive to put a disclaimer with every post about a product you acquired with an advantage. When I got my CL I was messaging a bit with Chris and he offered me free shipping. It has never even crossed my mind to disclose that fact, and I have been promoting CL a lot. It's not motivated by the favor I got, but I would understand if people would think it's a bit dodgy to keep this info. (I don't think I mentioned this before and I don't feel I should have.)

just like individual people will presume whatever they do about other individual people...

For me this is what this discussion is about. If someone on an enthousiast forum is promoting products they get with an advantage, this can be quite invisible. Especially well received members. I don't think people automatically assume this is a possibility, especially when they're new or less active.

But yeah it's all arbitrary as every individual, either from a promoting or from a prospective buyer pov, has different takes on how how broad that gray area margin is. In the end everyone's gotta make their own decisions. On what to buy, as well as how comfortable they feel with promoting shit they get with an undisclosed advantage.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I think there's also a lot of gray area here, where it's not deceptive and there's no pragmatic motivation to not disclose you got a better deal, while still promoting the device. If @Shit Snacks gets a better deal on Prophet glass piece while they're also "plugging" it online, I don't expect such details to be disclosed. @Shit Snacks has mentioned more than once they helped in the design, it is understandable if there's some incentive for that (not saying there are).

Yeah it's also, difference of disclaiming disclosing volunteering, versus just answering if asked? IDB has become a friend, we talk before I tested first vape, I don't even remember what I paid for each exactly because we also traded some things offsetting my Atlas and second Halo, but I paid full price to pre order Heady Atlas and something for beta Zenith with bowls etc. The glass was and is also a lot of conversation helping to design the pieces, with Prophet the most, but also helping to discover, vet, and connect with some of the glass manufacturers... Pre ordered Prodigy and Protege, while my Prophet prototype was free, new V2 Prophet was discounted due to no center spikes same as the others that were like it. Now will be ordering from the website once fully operational...

Anyway it's easy to forget, having been sent a variety of other things free to review, be it by request or them reaching out, be it to more beta test with feedback or actually help promote with a review (which is typically only ever a more mass produced oriented manufacturer and never any type of artisan maker in my experience here) RBT and MistVape are two others whom I had closer relationship with than I do to Lamart, having bought items though also having received many for free, considering both Ryan and Dave friends, so there's always inherent bias though anyone can read my posts to see what I hope is informative regardless of my own perspective that invades the text with context and subtext...? I consider Ralph a different degree of friend, I was one of the earlier buyers of the original Tubo and got in on the first Tetra drop, most of our interactions have been public in the threads here... IDB I consider an even closer friend having connected and spoken before they were even making and selling vapes or even accessories I think? We just connected over a mutual love of vapes and similar styles, as I have with many other members here fortunately!

Yeah I'd like to see my friends succeed, especially if they are making products that I believe in and want to see succeed as well, there is some ego involved as I like others to see the things as I see them, although nothing is perfect I think I just presume most people can absorb everything about a product to make the decision of if it is for them, part of that is the makers and whatever testing and or promotional aspects it has had from the makers or the early adopters, I don't watch many videos or pay attention to any actual official reviews and have not for quite some time... When it comes down to is finding the right vapes for myself in the right situations, I gave up putting much effort into trying to convince anyone of anything, I just like to share my opinion and leave it at that these days, hoping to help anyone I can with as much info and good energy as I can, many do reach out directly and I would encourage anyone to reply and ask me questions in general as I always try to answer to the best of my ability (even though I probably do need to take a long break from FC and focus on my living life hahaha)

Went off on some more rambling tangent, yeah I know if these thoughts aren't necessarily directed at me in particular, potentially merely examples, I just felt the need to respond with my specific details for whatever that is worth to anyone!

 

[Haze Mister]

Also it's just not possible or at least disruptive to put a disclaimer with every post about a product you acquired with an advantage.

Disagree. If someone is plugging something they got for cheap or free they need to disclose it, fullstop.

 

[Relaxed]

My banner is for rent but nobody has taken me up on it?

 

[vapviking]

My banner is for rent but nobody has taken me up on it?

Have you tried the Classifieds?

 

[Zipford]

I think there's also a lot of gray area here, where it's not deceptive and there's no pragmatic motivation to not disclose you got a better deal, while still promoting the device. If @Shit Snacks gets a better deal on Prophet glass piece while they're also "plugging" it online, I don't expect such details to be disclosed. @Shit Snacks has mentioned more than once they helped in the design, it is understandable if there's some incentive for that (not saying there are).

Also it's just not possible or at least disruptive to put a disclaimer with every post about a product you acquired with an advantage. When I got my CL I was messaging a bit with Chris and he offered me free shipping. It has never even crossed my mind to disclose that fact, and I have been promoting CL a lot. It's not motivated by the favor I got, but I would understand if people would think it's a bit dodgy to keep this info. (I don't think I mentioned this before and I don't feel I should have.)



For me this is what this discussion is about. If someone on an enthousiast forum is promoting products they get with an advantage, this can be quite invisible. Especially well received members. I don't think people automatically assume this is a possibility, especially when they're new or less active.

But yeah it's all arbitrary as every individual, either from a promoting or from a prospective buyer pov, has different takes on how how broad that gray area margin is. In the end everyone's gotta make their own decisions. On what to buy, as well as how comfortable they feel with promoting shit they get with an undisclosed advantage.

I agree that this issue is very gray, and I agree that in your example of free shipping I don't think that really needs to be disclosed. But I disagree that it is difficult or disruptive to provide this information, unless you receive a ton of free gear.

And when you say "everyone's gotta make their own decisions," you're kind of gliding past the real issue here: users of the forum are basing their buying decisions on what others here say, and if people are getting free vapes to try and then review, that is highly relevant information that absolutely should be shared upfront. The pressure to post a positive review is very, very real.

My assumption has always been that if someone got free equipment to try and review, that fact would be shared as literally the first sentence of the review. Not doing so is shady IMHO. Again, there are lots of other situations that are not this cut and dry.

I've bought vapes (Linx Eden, which sucks; don't ever buy one) where I had to go back and re-read reviews (not here) in amazement at the bullshit people wrote about it, i.e. "gets a little warm."

Honest reviews and input by real life users is what makes this board valuable.

 

[Shit Snacks]

The pressure to post a positive review is very, very real

For what it's worth I've never felt any at all

 

[Zipford]

For what it's worth I've never felt any at all

To be clear, I didn't have you in mind and until I read this thread, wasn't really aware that you know so many different people in the biz (other than a few times where you mentioned working with a glass maker). And I've never felt that your views are biased.

But if Tinymight sent you a free TM2 to try and review, and you thought the improvements stunk and they ruined the device with their changes, you'd feel no hesitance to trash it here? This is obviously different from beta testing, where the point is to give honest feedback to the manufacturer -- in that case they want honestly, not marketing. But getting a device for the purpose of reviewing it was what I had in mind in terms of pressure (though to be honest, not sure if free devices to review really happens here).

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

But I disagree that it is difficult or disruptive to provide this information

But that's not what I said.

And when you say "everyone's gotta make their own decisions," you're kind of gliding past the real issue here: users of the forum are basing their buying decisions on what others here say, and if people are getting free vapes to try and then review, that is highly relevant information that absolutely should be shared upfront.

Not really, I was just pointing out a reality. And I haven't read back my previous comment but iirc the rest of my post added some nuance to the parts you are quoting. Also I wasn't talking about free vapes, but I might've been unclear on that.

 

[Shit Snacks]

To be clear, I didn't have you in mind and until I read this thread, wasn't really aware that you know so many different people in the biz (other than a few times where you mentioned working with a glass maker). And I've never felt that your views are biased.

But if Tinymight sent you a free TM2 to try and review, and you thought the improvements stunk and they ruined the device with their changes, you'd feel no hesitance to trash it here? This is obviously different from beta testing, where the point is to give honest feedback to the manufacturer -- in that case they want honestly, not marketing. But getting a device for the purpose of reviewing it was what I had in mind in terms of pressure (though to be honest, not sure if free devices to review really happens here).

All good, thanks, didn't take it that way, just wanted to elaborate, I've never had a company put pressure to give a positive review, when it was a unit sent for free for that purpose instead of mere testing, more typical from the larger established companies... You brought up Linx and they did send me that one and others, I think they reached out to me in fact, but I may have reached out to them when Eden was first released, cannot recall exactly... I complaints for that one weren't as profound although I do agree with you, their blaze was okay as I posted, but I really ended up having problems with the Hermes, leaking oil at least the CBD CO2 oil I tried using with it... I don't remember if I posted much negatively about it in the thread? True that I never heard from them again, for any other product, they definitely reached out to me for the Blaze and Hermes but no more... I also think I mentioned in my posts in those threads that I was sent the units though it's possible I mistakenly omitted, which is possible to have happened in other cases throughout the years as I am privileged to have been an active member here so long now... Anyway I think it's fair to presume some sort of, perhaps internal pressure, like the reviewer might feel it more than the manufacturer actually pushing it on them? At the very least I tried to be fair, but I remember way back when, reaching out to various Chinese manufacturers for testing and reviewing, eventually I felt comfortable enough to not hold back with more harsh criticism although I always try to maintain a more neutral perspective with relative context... I've certainly come a long way here, if anyone went back and saw my older posts especially more targeted testing and review posts, I think now I have settled into some pretty good consistency, hopefully transparent and reputable! Yeah the best part of this site is that it is real people, so you can follow members and see what else they like, then you get a sense of their tastes and it's really the ultimate reviews even when they are not actually reviews per se, so maintaining the integrity benefits everyone

 

[Zipford]

But that's not what I said.


Not really, I was just pointing out a reality. And I haven't read back my previous comment but iirc the rest of my post added some nuance to the parts you are quoting. Also I wasn't talking about free vapes, but I might've been unclear on that.

OK, I went back and re-read your post and I see you're talking about adding a disclaimer to every post on a product -- as someone who reads the Tinymight thread, I can see that would be fairly over the top for regular contributors. I was really envisioning just on a post where someone gives a review or otherwise promotes some product.

There's really just tons of gray here. Like I really like the GRAV Upline Taster for the Tinymight and have recommended it repeatedly when people ask for recommendations. If GRAV noticed and sent me a few free stems, I wouldn't feel the need to say anything because it would be after the fact. But if they sent me a new type of stem to try out and post about, I do think that would be worth noting.

FWIW, I haven't really noticed this being an issue beyond an occasional shill post that usually gets called out. Given that I talk about the same handful of vapes that I use and enjoy, I assume that is the case for others here as well. "Handful" meaning different things to different people!

 

[EarthworldTim]

For what it's worth I've never felt any at all

I would imagine, perhaps, first time testers might feel this way to stay in good grace with the maker, this is just an example.

I just want to say that imo the reddit backlash seems to be way overblown as most here do. I think many things can be true at the same time without needing to lob accusations and insults. I do think there was a valid point to be made but it was quickly out of hand. There was some fanning of the flames from people defending the testers as well so there was escalation on both sides(as at least one person acknowledged here but I know some of the skeptics were especially nasty). I think it's safe to say that the average vaporents member isn't diving super deep into this forum and spending hours reading feedback on multiple vapes etc because reddit appeals to quick reads/info by design.

The way the unveiling happened here vs Reddit is basically night and day and that should surprise no one as vaporents is regularly used for hype/awareness/bragging. I'm not super familiar with all of the very active users in both places but I'm familiar enough to have recognized that many of the testers are either makers or users who invest a lot of their time contributing to the community and that was enough to put me at ease. That and the fact that testers almost immediately began disclosing this info, most of them anyway.

Honestly I think what may have driven the fervor the most was the fact that Troy was all set to be plugging it with an in depth review and his association with companies and products he derives income from. Again, not something I read into much because he discloses this and from reading his reviews and being familiar sets my expectations and I know when to take my salt grains at this point.

All that being said it did cross my mind at first that it could be a coordinated hype campaign so like I said, questioning was valid imo. I just don't think there should be any outrage from the testers or the community had it been handled in not reddit fashion... like ya know, how it was handled here other than the venting after. But especially after this I think we can all agree reddit will always be reddit.

 

[Zipford]

I would imagine, perhaps, first time testers might feel this way to stay in good grace with the maker, this is just an example.

I just want to say that imo the reddit backlash seems to be way overblown as most here do. I think many things can be true at the same time without needing to lob accusations and insults. I do think there was a valid point to be made but it was quickly out of hand. There was some fanning of the flames from people defending the testers as well so there was escalation on both sides(as at least one person acknowledged here but I know some of the skeptics were especially nasty). I think it's safe to say that the average vaporents member isn't diving super deep into this forum and spending hours reading feedback on multiple vapes etc because reddit appeals to quick reads/info by design.

The way the unveiling happened here vs Reddit is basically night and day and that should surprise no one as vaporents is regularly used for hype/awareness/bragging. I'm not super familiar with all of the very active users in both places but I'm familiar enough to have recognized that many of the testers are either makers or users who invest a lot of their time contributing to the community and that was enough to put me at ease. That and the fact that testers almost immediately began disclosing this info, most of them anyway.

Honestly I think what may have driven the fervor the most was the fact that Troy was all set to be plugging it with an in depth review and his association with companies and products he derives income from. Again, not something I read into much because he discloses this and from reading his reviews and being familiar sets my expectations and I know when to take my salt grains at this point.

All that being said it did cross my mind at first that it could be a coordinated hype campaign so like I said, questioning was valid imo. I just don't think there should be any outrage from the testers or the community had it been handled in not reddit fashion... like ya know, how it was handled here other than the venting after. But especially after this I think we can all agree reddit will always be reddit.

Too funny -- I assume I'm the only one in this thread who didn't know there was a specific kerfluffle?! Thanks for the background.

While I think disclosing is still generally the right way to go, I can see people feeling left out when some people get a first shot at a new desirable device. Fortunately for me, I can't even convince myself that I would be the right person to beta test a new device -- too happy with the Tinymight 1.5!

 

[Shit Snacks]

I can't even convince myself that I would be the right person to beta test a new device

I've actually turned some down, because I didn't think I would be able to devote the necessary time with the unit, proper testing requires a lot of dedication in my experience

 

[coolbreeze]

While I think disclosing is still generally the right way to go, I can see people feeling left out when some people get a first shot at a new desirable device. Fortunately for me, I can't even convince myself that I would be the right person to beta test a new device

Same. It's nice to know that the "professional" reviewers are sponsored and by whom, but if we start treating other users as suspect because they're trying to help a maker hone the product or help us understand the nuance of the thing, we all lose. I think everyone feels the FOMO pangs around these things, to some degree, but really, the product launches are usually not too far off and that gives one the time to think, decide, and scrape up cash.

I agree that I feel the same about my own 'rightness', I'm disorganized, forgetful, and lazy. I'm glad there are kind, experienced, and thoughtful users who don't mind taking on that responsibility and doing it well. So, thanks to the beta testers and the reviewers! You've saved me a lot of time, confusion, and money. Mostly I just appreciated your teaching me new things.

 

[howie105]

As long as everything is out front, who cares. However, if promotions get obscured and cheesy, the worse the blowback can get for the site.

 

[cx714]

It’s easy to forget that correlation isn’t causation. Typically, you want users who are passionate, knowledgeable, and articulate to test new products. Is it any surprise that they’d share their discoveries with their communities? “Same few faces" gets thrown around like it's a smoking gun when the logic is much more circular.

As for backdoor incentives, if you're doing proper product testing, you’re committing the value of your time and attention which, depending on your job, may actually be worth more than your workplace time and attention. It's not nothing. Nor is it risk free. If the vape sucks, you’re out your time, attention, AND weed, plus any money spent.

People inflate ratings all the time. I give most ubers 5 stars because it's a shit gig even when it's only a shit side-gig. So maybe someone felt tickled that they scored a cool artisan prerelease and gave it some extra shine. It's still just the internet and still just an opinion. I don't even trust my own opinion until I've used a vape for quite awhile.

Conversely, some people crap on things because it's what they do, even if it’s just someone else's opinion they have no basis for refuting. It's the pearl clutching that gets my goat. Like, sure, Lamart runs a cabal of tastemakers to manipulate a market he literally cannot satisfy, but your pig-headed rant about materials safety and shilling is all cuz you’re a stand-up dude. Gotcha.

 

[RustyOldNail]

It's still just the internet and still just an opinion

Yup, words to live by!
That’s how I’ve tried to filter any participation anywhere online…… but I was young once…. now I just click “unsubscribe”…

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I dont see nothing wrong with getting a unit for a review, actually from what i see people are pretty straight forward about it . There are also people on this forum (me incl) that companies would probably gladly pay not to post about their products .