Does a patient need to "get high" to be helped by Cannabis?

[Farid]

I think I get the best effects from cannabis when I don't get high. I have epilepsy, so I use cannabis to treat the symptoms from my meds. Some people with epilepsy use CBD on its own to treat it, but since I've found a medicine I tolerate, I just use it to help the side effects (dizziness, tiredness, nausea). I use THC with CBD because it's the cheapest way to medicate (entourage effect), though I've loved the pure CBD I've tried.

I do use THC to get high sometimes, but only on days off when I'm with friends. I don't do it frequently because I prefer to keep my tolerance as low as I can manage, and to be honest, I don't enjoy the effects nearly as much as I did when I was using strictly for recreation.

 

[archangelz001]

It took me a while to understand what an MD who writes many Cannabis recommendations was saying when he said he was against recreational use.

I had a talk with my Radiation Oncologist and admitted to him that I enjoyed the euphoria of some THC. I like to get "elevated." He told me he thought all cannabis use was medicinal, intended for re-creation. I find that a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio of THC to CBD is well tolerated and enjoyable. Find some cannabis like that and give it to the person with Alzheimer's.

Mini-dose with a vaporizer. It's much easier to up the dose slowly (take a second or third hit) after 10 or 15 minutes. Titrate to effect.

 

[CarolKing]

When I need cannabis for anxiety I need to get really medicated with an indica strain. I notice if i need it for pain it can have the opposite affect if I use too much, having a head buzz is usually part of it. For sleeping I need a heavy hitting Indica.

Sometime it's a balance. It's been a learning experience to figure out. Now that I can know the strains I'm using it helps the process.

I have taken too much of an edible and I agree nobody would want that experience. Many dispensaries have their edibles levels at 10 THC so it's easy to dose. Some folks needs something that's very high in THC so that wouldn't work for some with a higher tolerance.

There is no way of knowing that the THC or CBD levels are correct at this time especially in Washington state. I have read several article that have debunked some of the levels that the THC and CBDis in some of the edibles on the market. I'm not sure if that is in other areas other than WA.

I don't usually use the term high, once in a while I do.

Edit
Just recently made some canna coconut oil with the Magical Butter Maker. I used an FCer's recipe @MrNaturalAZ for decarbing in the MB and process the material for 4 hours. I let the oil sit for 30 min as per recipe and didn't strain. I let the setiment float to the bottom. It is the best oil I have made yet. It gives a whole body feel and works well for my evening pain. It takes a couple hours to kick in.

 

[JiggyJack]

Simple answer: No, a patient doesn't need to get high to be helped by cannabis. But there are a lot of variables in play so trial and error; take it slow.

 

[fernand]

I had to take a break this last week from my 2-4 toke a day medicating, and my wife was the first to notice that everything in my system was going to hell. I wasn't really noticing it at first. First just nerves, more easily annoyed. But subtle. Not a "rebound". More like "normal". The tiny amounts of cannabis had been having an overall beneficial effect. Then it was obvious my pain was much worse. Had to take more Rx meds. That's a nuisance cause they make me sleepy. And couldn't walk half as far without a lot of discomfort. Then tonight my blood pressure spiked 160/110 like it used to before I rediscovered cannabis.

I can only speak for myself. To some it may seem crazy, but for me, small amounts of the right strains puts like a positive angelic cloud of health around me. It has nothing to do with getting stoned or high. And it sticks around in your body, in a good way. It's as close to a general tonic as I can imagine.

I think that in time people will rediscover what must have been known in past centuries: a little hemp makes your body work better.

 

[JiggyJack]

I had to take a break this last week from my 2-4 toke a day medicating, and my wife was the first to notice that everything in my system was going to hell. I wasn't really noticing it at first. First just nerves, more easily annoyed. But subtle. Not a "rebound". More like "normal

The anti-cannabis terrorists would call these withdrawal symptoms and proof that cannabis is addictive.

I would agree with you that the symptoms were there without treatment and cannabis is restoring the body's proper balance.

 

[lwien]

The anti-cannabis terrorists would call these withdrawal symptoms and proof that cannabis is addictive.

I am not an anti-cannabis terrorist. Far from it actually. If anything, I would call myself a cannabis realist.

Those DO sound like typical withdrawal symptoms and I believe that it has been proven in multiple studies that about 10% to 12% of those that use cannabis can very well get addicted to it.

As a matter of fact, I would label those that don't accept what I have stated above as pro-cannabis terrorists...... (said tongue in cheek)

 

[cybrguy]

I guess it is not impossible, but I would think it would be very difficult to become addicted to a substance, nearly ANY substance, when using so little. I suspect a better description might be that you returned to your state of being before consuming cannabis. You weren't having withdrawal, you were just no longer getting the benefits that made you feel better.

I don't see myself as addicted to MJ, but I certainly prefer the analgesic and calming effects I get from it, and miss them when I don't have them. I have been told that I am moodier, less patient and less gregarious when I am on a t-break. I just see that as being unmedicated rater than in withdrawal.

 

[lwien]

I don't see myself as addicted to MJ, but I certainly prefer the analgesic and calming effects I get from it, and miss them when I don't have them. I have been told that I am moodier, less patient and less gregarious when I am on a t-break. I just see that as being unmedicated rater than in withdrawal.

I guess the only way to really know for sure is to stay on a T-Break for 3 to 4 weeks and see if those "symptoms" still exist. In my opinion, if they do, than I agree that it's just being unmedicated, but if those symptoms subside, than I think it would be safe to assume that they were withdrawal symptoms, eh?

 

[speedyg]

Anyone try this? Juicing raw cannabis, http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/07/13/is-juicing-raw-marijuana-next-green-drink/

No high, so long as the plant material has an't absorbed too much heat under the growlights.

 

[cybrguy]

I guess the only way to really know for sure is to stay on a T-Break for 3 to 4 weeks and see if those "symptoms" still exist. In my opinion, if they do, than I agree that it's just being unmedicated, but if those symptoms subside, than I think it would be safe to assume that they were withdrawal symptoms, eh?

Pretty good bet I'm not gonna find out...

 

[JiggyJack]

I am not an anti-cannabis terrorist. Far from it actually. If anything, I would call myself a cannabis realist.

I hope my comment did not somehow come across as being directed at anyone here. That was certainly not my intent. I've just read a lot of stuff lately (not here) from people who match that description so it was on my mind.

Personally, I have no doubt that cannabis could be addictive, or rather, that the human body could become dependent on it using the definition that its absence causes painful or uncomfortable physical symptoms, but perhaps that definition is not applicable given how cannabis is so perfectly matched to the human body's endocannabinoid system. I wouldn't call hunger pains from not eating, withdrawal.

But what do I know, I'm just a simple country lobbyist. No, wait… that's not me. I'm just a simple pro-cannabis terrorist.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

but perhaps that definition is not applicable given how cannabis is so perfectly matched to the human body's endocannabinoid system.

I could say the same thing about opiates and how perfectly they sit into receptors that our endorphin system utilizes...

 

[JiggyJack]

I could say the same thing about opiates and how perfectly they sit into receptors that our endorphin system utilizes...

Maybe so. Seems to me the human body is a very complicated creation. Logically one can assume there is a state in which a body can be said to be in optimum condition; the other end of the spectrum probably being death. It is not hard to imagine most bodies spend most of their time sub-optimally. Whatever imbalance in the system exists may be countered by any number of substances (or actions). I know my girlfriend is much happier with a little chocolate in her (as am I).

 

[fernand]

Those DO sound like typical withdrawal symptoms and I believe that it has been proven in multiple studies that about 10% to 12% of those that use cannabis can very well get addicted to it.

As a matter of fact, I would label those that don't accept what I have stated above as pro-cannabis terrorists...... (said tongue in cheek)

Absolutely not "withdrawal". I might argue that with such small amounts it can't be, but as above, so below. Or something like that. It could be minor rebound to minor dosage. But it's not. And BTW the reason withdrawal is so rare, even at massive dosage, is because cannabis is such a complex mixture of agonists and antagonists.

In my case I'm just coming back to exactly where I was before. In all domains. While I was using my puffs, I was able to cut down on analgesics, down from my prescribed amounts by 1/3 and at times 1/2. That's significant. Now? I've had to go back up to my prescribed levels. What's worse, there's no dosage I've found that will allow me to walk as far as cannabis allowed me. There's no level of analgesics that works that way, short of anesthesia -- and i can't walk far THAT way.

On the "nerves" front? same thing. I'm a high-strung person. I always was and I still am. While using cannabis, I was less high-strung. Not in a "slacker" way, just not as easily unhinged, more stable.

Blood Pressure? my genetic constitution includes uneven BP with spikes. While using cannabis, I was cutting down on the 3 BP meds I use by about 1/3 and surprisingly my BP was more even. Now it's just returning to what it was, so I'm back on my previous dosages.

All in all I resent the hell out of it. That this demonized herb, the object of all this political manipulation, a "narcotic" that can still land you in prison, is not just harmless - it's SO beneficial!

I don't care what people do, if they wanna smoke crack, IV meth, drink, whatever, it's not my department. Just don't make others' life harder. I can't help but think that SOME consideration of the diplomacy of the situation is in order. Am I nuts?

P.s. yes I agree, the same can be true of other substances.

 

[CarolKing]

@fernand i don't believe that low of an amount that you use would create withdrawals.

The withdrawals are suppose to be mentally vs physically. Your mind can give you the physical systems of a withdrawal feelings.

I use more than you and I regularly take a T-break. I don't feel withdrawals but sure have some wild dreams. I always dream that I can't find my car.
I might be a little more bitchy - you'd have to ask my husband. I do have more pain and getting to sleep is a little harder if I'm hurting. Sometimes I will take Benedryl to help me get to sleep.

 

[lwien]

I always dream that I can't find my car.

Me too. Weird we have the same dream.

Has it ever happened to you for real though. It has me. Back in the 70's, I used to go to concerts every weekend and we usually dropped acid on the way trying to time it so that we didn't come on to it till we found our seats. Anyway, went to a concert at the Forum in LA. We exited the forum from another door than the door we entered and when we got to the parking lot I knew I was in trouble. There was no way in hell that I remembered where I parked the damn car so we just sat down, lit up a joint and waited till all the cars left before I ventured out to find mine. Took about 2 hours.

 

[fernand]

@lwien and @CarolKing love you guys! Obviously y'all left both cars in the same spot, and all you had to do is dream you called each other and said where.

 

[CarolKing]

It might stem from when I was 18 I had a job in an office. I parked my car in front of an alley and didn't realize. When I was done at the end of the day I searched and searched for my car and couldn't find it. I found a police officer and told him I thought my car was stolen. He did a little investigating and told me that my car had been towed away.

At times I still forget where my car is parked and I start to panic.

@lwien we are kindred spirits friend. @fernand i always love your posts, you too lwien.

I know, off topic - I couldn't resist.

 

[archangelz001]

I just finished a voluntary T break of 35 days by spending a month in France. I've had worse withdrawal symptoms with caffeine. It took a little longer to get to sleep, I woke up with dreams more often, and was slightly more emotionally labile for a few days around day 5. But this really wasn't any big deal and the symptoms may have been due to jet lag, or culture shock, or dietary changes. Who knows?

 

[fernand]

Have you noticed that car-towers and repo-men and bail-bondsmen are all cut of the same cloth? I knew a lawyer of that school once. He'd display his credentials by saying that "marawanna puts ya in birdland".

Well, I think that's all bass-ackwards.

Where I grew up, beer was known for its B-Vitamins and other nutrients, red wine for its benefits. Kids in their early teens were encouraged to sip a beer or water with wine with big meals, our parents said it helped with health and digestion etc. The idea that it was to get drunk on would be totally laughable. I first saw college fraternity idiots drinking kegs of 3% beer and vomiting in California, and I couldn't believe it.

The tradition that brought us prohibition, and that made sex a "sin", also invented manipulative terms like "marijuana", "drug abuse", the tale of how only defective characters would use a "crutch", and all that nonsense. It's all bass-ackwards. And the "getting high" expression is right in there too. Why did Ray Charles and all those degenerate (dark) musicians use drugs? It wasn't to hear music better, or to overcome depression. They were "getting high". Why were the kids against the war in Vietnam? Because they were "high". It's all part of a toxic vocabulary designed to mislead ignorant fogies/voters.

Maybe "marijuana" can put crazed dark-skinned people in Birdland, you know, like Donald Trump thinks. And put millions in prison, too, by the way. But it looks to me like Cannabis makes a lot of people healthier, in different ways, as it has for millennia. Heck, it was on the US Pharmacopeia until they invented the dreaded "marijuana". And that Cannabis is what grandma, and all of us, can use.

Let's not get overconfident and lose track of the big picture. This ain't no joking matter, forgive me. If the right wing wins big in 2016, we could see everything we've won get reversed in a flash. And should the dispensary registries serve as warrant lists, I can't even imagine what they'll do to the "getting high" crowd. You know, the ones who smoke those new million-fold concentrated synthetic marijuana Salts, and drive "high" all the time, 'cause that stuff stays in your system for at least weeks, and they're out there mowing down your children!