Do you think that folks should make $15.00 an hour in some areas?

[CarolKing]

Today California's governor Jerry Brown signed the bill that will make all businesses pay its workers $15.00 an hour in 6 years. Do you agree with this? Six years is a long time away.

I think Washington is going that way too. I'm all for folks making more money and to be able to live off a living wage. I'm not sure if $15.00 is really a living wage especially 6 years away. I guess a little is better than nothing.

Some businesses are up in arms over this. Some say that they will need to lay workers off. They may be forced to raise the price of services and products. I think about fast food places and car washes. Should there be exceptions? Will this cause inflation? Will this lay people off?

I think in 6 years wages would naturally go up but some employers may need that nudge.

 

[HD Springer]

The money will have to come out of somebody's pockets and it's been proved time and time again that the big business owners won't pocket this extra costs. Consumers will pay more. I feel that big business will survive and small mom and pop stores will have just one more hurdle to cross. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer.

 

[CarolKing]

I think another thing too that many haven't thought about that there are plenty of state workers making less than $15.00 an hour. That would cause their wages to go up. That would make the state to have to pay more money. That would be passed to the tax payers.

It's not the Warren Buffets that will be paying for this it could come down to the tax payer or the regular person.

 

[woolspinner]

I think the need to make such large hourly wages is largely driven by housing costs. Therefore, all we are doing is putting a bandaid on the cracked dam, which happens to be shaped like an elephant no one wants to address.

Of course, I happen to believe the root problem for almost all of our problems (climate change, foot shortages, certain kinds of territorial conflicts) is one of population. Until we reverse population growth worldwide- IMHO the biggest elephant no one wants to acknowledge, let alone discuss - the world is going to die exponentially faster.

It is the time of bread and circuses to be followed by an epic climate event that will wipe out humankind and allow the rise of the insect.

I am not normally this personal here on FC. I must be having an especially angry day. But I do believe a rise in wages will only help in the short term.

 

[ginolicious]

Cost a living will just keep increasing as you pay people more than what the old minimum was. Coffee gets more expensive. Everything.

 

[cptchronic]

It really depends on what kind of competition exists in each market whether or not raising the minimum wage will have a significant impact. Even then, only the workers receiving the wage increase will experience a benefit.

However with a gradual increase like that, the impact should be minimal because of normal inflation. Each year until 2022 (6 years it takes to implement the wage) we'll experience about 2-4% inflation. So by 2022, the real wages would be relatively the same as they are now despite increasing them to 15.

And to expand on your point of overpopulation, most people think poverty is the result of overpopulation when in reality overpopulation is the result of poverty. If we reduce poverty we will reduce overpopulation.

 

[jim-bob]

I'd be in favor of jacking the minimum to fifteen across the board tomorrow, honestly. It'd be nice if the dudes at the top would take a pay cut to offset it but we know that'll never happen, unfortunately.

 

[DieHard]

Big business takes advantage of it's workers, we all know that. Unions even the odds by negotiating on behalf of an entire group of employees regardless of the company they work for. We need more Unions to protect workers rights and get them the pay and benefits they deserve. I'm not talking about the stereotype union labor that everyone thinks about. Not corrupt like in the old days. Not organized crime like the movies. But real workers getting paid real wages with real benefits that reflect the hard work and/or skill involved.

 

[jim-bob]

Big business takes advantage of it's workers, we all know that. Unions even the odds by negotiating on behalf of an entire group of employees regardless of the company they work for. We need more Unions to protect workers rights and get them the pay and benefits they deserve. I'm not talking about the stereotype union labor that everyone thinks about. Not corrupt like in the old days. Not organized crime like the movies. But real workers getting paid real wages with real benefits that reflect the hard work and/or skill involved.

Agreed. I'm not sure how we get rid of the weird stigma that the top dogs have been doing their best to tar unions with, but even as weak as unions currently are today they're still better than no protections whatsoever or signing documents binding you to arbitration (and typically the arbitrator is somehow connected with the corp.).

When I joined a union I gained all sorts of frivolous luxuries (jk) that I'd previously never even expected, such as the right to a lunch break and the idea that if you sent me home at midnight and brought me back at 6am it would cost more than giving me an actual eight-hour turnaround. I don't know what the answer is to improve the image of unions in the US, but I know that a union has made a drastic improvement in my quality of life.

 

[CarolKing]

When people make more money they are able to buy more and that helps everybody. It's too bad that the bill isn't fully implemented until 6 years down the road. I wish it was going to happen sooner.

The unions have helped to set the bar for safety and benefits for workers. I've belonged to a union for 27 years. The small dues I pay monthly is nothing compared to what my benefits and pay would be if I wasn't in a union. The unions have helped to bring wages up in America across the board.

 

[cptchronic]

I agree completely, however economically speaking (I'm an economist) raising the minimum wage generally has more negative outcomes than positive ones.

For example if we were to implement an increase to 15 now, workers would immediately be laid off and we would have higher unemployment hurting our GDP. The people receiving the wage increase would benefit but it would be significantly less than the people who are negatively impacted. Only people making below or close to the minimum would see wage increases.

I think raising the minimum wage needs to be done it but it must be done in a way that prevents business from off loading the costs to workers and consumers.

And also +1 for unions. Right to work laws, more like right to be exploited lol

 

[DieHard]

I was so afraid of union haters after my last post. It makes me feel so good to see positive support for organized labor. My Union has given me so much that I feel obligated to give back and be involved as much as I can.

 

[davesmith]

i think minimum wage is fucking disgusting and the fact that, certainly in the uk, you cannot live on minimum wage is laughable. it is designed to impoverish the masses and create a downtrodden society of people who are not able to think critically. if we had the time, money and energy we would confront the mutated capitalism disease that is infecting the entire globe. people like trump are a cancer to our society and environment and the fact that people believe the shite that pours out of his over privilaged multi-billionaire mouth is proof that all that cola-guzzing is stupefying our children.

A nice fact I picked up from a friend at the London School of Economics is that if all the multinational corporations that operate within the UK actually paid their correct tax then we would be able to give every human in the entire european union a living wage! regardless of employment. seriously.

And people think someone like trump who invests in these tax dodging corporations gives a flying shit about the population and will improve the living standards of a country like the USA, well, they are very sorely mistaken.


/rantover (for now)

 

[2 Cycle]

Cost a living will just keep increasing as you pay people more than what the old minimum was. Coffee gets more expensive. Everything.

bingo.

 

[WakeAndVape]

People deserve to make a livable wage.

Money is a fabrication and that's why inflation works the way it does...five or six years down the line inflation will have increased to the point that 15 ain't 15 anymore, add that to increased tax revenue...it's a lollipop after a shot.

Plus I think the minimum wage is different for small businesses vs big buisnesses (at least in my state it is)

To touch the overpopulation thing, the earth isn't over populated. The problem is our resource abuse and a fundamental mental illness in most of humanity that tells them 'everything is for us'.

That same school of thought makes people think fast food workers (the biggest group bashed by my peers) shouldn't make $15
...even though they are the direct person in contact with your food and the most important peice in the wheel...meanwhile the corporate executives makes a six figure salary and does very little to maintain the buisnesses on a daily basis and no one ever questions what they should be making...it's weird.

But america is backwards in more ways than one.

I think moving buisnesses off shore to evade taxes and boost profits at the expense of workers should be a crime. But karma is a bitch, that's why China is copying anything they can touch and drowning our market with hazardous goods.

 

[woolspinner]

People deserve to make a livable wage.

Money is a fabrication and that's why inflation works the way it does...five or six years down the line inflation will have increased to the point that 15 ain't 15 anymore, add that to increased tax revenue...it's a lollipop after a shot.

Plus I think the minimum wage is different for small businesses vs big buisnesses (at least in my state it is)

To touch the overpopulation thing, the earth isn't over populated. The problem is our resource abuse and a fundamental mental illness in most of humanity that tells them 'everything is for us'.

That same school of thought makes people think fast food workers (the biggest group bashed by my peers) shouldn't make $15
...even though they are the direct person in contact with your food and the most important peice in the wheel...meanwhile the corporate executives makes a six figure salary and does very little to maintain the buisnesses on a daily basis and no one ever questions what they should be making...it's weird.

But america is backwards in more ways than one.

I think moving buisnesses off shore to evade taxes and boost profits at the expense of workers should be a crime. But karma is a bitch, that's why China is copying anything they can touch and drowning our market with hazardous goods.

I must disagree.

No, the earth is not overpopulated if "resources" only means cash. But if resources means clean air, water, and nutritious food - AND we are working with what we presently have and not some utopia where we all have a zero carbon footprint and have not destroyed vast amounts of those resources through pollution generated years ago - then the formula for resources / world population = negative number. Blaming wall street is simply diverting the conversation to a more easily digested problem.

 

[howie105]

Today California's governor Jerry Brown signed the bill that will make all businesses pay its workers $15.00 an hour in 6 years. Do you agree with this? Six years is a long time away.

I think Washington is going that way too. I'm all for folks making more money and to be able to live off a living wage. I'm not sure if $15.00 is really a living wage especially 6 years away. I guess a little is better than nothing.

Some businesses are up in arms over this. Some say that they will need to lay workers off. They may be forced to raise the price of services and products. I think about fast food places and car washes. Should there be exceptions? Will this cause inflation? Will this lay people off?

I think in 6 years wages would naturally go up but some employers may need that nudge.

As long as there are disparity in cost of living, more workers then jobs and a willingness to optimize profit margins there will be a disparity in pay. Or in a capitalist society the last too feed are the powerless.

 

[WakeAndVape]

I must disagree.

No, the earth is not overpopulated if "resources" only means cash. But if resources means clean air, water, and nutritious food - AND we are working with what we presently have and not some utopia where we all have a zero carbon footprint and have not destroyed vast amounts of those resources through pollution generated years ago - then the formula for resources / world population = negative number. Blaming wall street is simply diverting the conversation to a more easily digested problem.

Well then we will agree to disagree.

Resources doesn't even include cash. Cash is not a resource, cash is an illusion...a starving man can't eat $100 dollar bills.

Our carbon footprint is heavy, but it's all to sustain a perverted system based on greed and what we think we need.

'Wallstreet' isn't the creator of our problems, merely the grandchild of the ones that did.

But views of the world aside... $15 is fair.

 

[CarolKing]

It probably depends where you live but in 6 years at $15.00 an hour that may not be enough, especially in CA where the cost of living is higher for housing. If this was to be implemented in 3 - 4 years I would think of it as a better plan.

 

[herbivore21]

Jobs are only useful if they put food in your stomach, a roof over your head and clothes on your back. I have to call a spade a spade here: I don't buy into this whole 'management can't afford to pay staff enough to live so staff should just take what they can get' thing.

If you can't keep your staff above the poverty line after they put in an honest week's work, then just accept that you can't afford to hire other people. Don't cry that you won't be able to create 'jobs' if the law is changed.

Jobs aren't worth shit if you work full time and you're still so poor that you can't make ends meet, just means that you are not only broke, but have also wasted most of your time at a dead-end job to boot!

Basically, to all you business owners out there: if your business can't survive without underpaying staff, then close it down and start a fucking viable business [/end rant].

 

[His_Highness]

Companies, whether large or small, will pass on expenses to their customers if they can. People will lose their jobs as automation becomes worth the time and effort. BUT..the economy will likely have a surge until equilibrium is reached since way more people who didn't have disposable income will be able to buy 'stuff'.

At $15 an hour the yearly salary becomes $30,000. Is working the lowest level job at McDonald's worth $30,000? McDonald's will automate what they can (Self Serve Register?) and raise prices where they must. The person flipping the burger gets $15 an hour. How much is the shift manager's salary going to go up accordingly?

A typical family's income without a high demand skill (2 parents/2 working aged kids) could become $120,000. For a brief period of time that typical family will be able to afford more....houses, etc. This in turn will cause the supply and demand curve to become 'demand' heavy which in turn will cause prices to rise on 'stuff'. Companies and corporations will be happy to raise those prices, margins will be better and the economy and stock market will rise. Once the supply and demand curve reaches equilibrium we'll be back to the same ol, same ol and $15 will again not be enough for a living wage.

The above is one theory...and it's the one I adhere to.....there are other theory's that state the increase in economic 'juice' from upwards of 20% of the population will start a self-driving cycle of prosperity that will ..... offset the demand heavy potential as more new companies seek to supply 'stuff' since the population is able to buy more.

 

[HellsWindStaff]

$15 an hour is fair for minimum wage, 7.15 or whatever isn't enough to ever get yourself out of the minimum wage hole. 15 allows you to save some at least and use it to better your situation.

Though, I think everyone's wages should get a hike. And then the cost of living will hike. And then 15 will be the new 7.15....tricky situation.

It's basically a 100% increase in minimum wage, and I know that many wouldn't be happy with the guy making 50-60k a years salary doubling, but fair is fair right? Have a hard time reconciling that as I don't believe that wages will increase as they should.

On the subject of unions, I have friends in unions (who I consider hard working) and have worked with plenty of good hardworking union members. But there will always be unfortunately those that take advantage of any system.

Some field service guys I was working with told me a "joke" about Unions, how that they will get to a site and get 3 union members to help them. Union Guy 1, he leaves to go fetch a tool. Union guy 2, after a little, he leaves to go find where Union Guy 1 is. Now you just are working with one Union guy. When the first guy gets back, the third guy, "ah shucks should of let ya know to get Y tool too! I'll go get it" etc.

Obviously not all encompassing and I'm not a Union hater by any means, I think they are a good thing, just sucks that for every hardworking Union worker that is rightfully helped out and protected, there is one sleeping on the job (and protected by the Union).

 

[howie105]

If you want to come up with a fair wage you have to measure what a given wage provides not about what the numbers are. I could live in Kentucky better for less money than I could in New York with more money. When the value and amount of money in circulation can be revalued on demand the numbers are really less relevant.

 

[His_Highness]

If you want to come up with a fair wage you have to measure what a given wage provides not about what the numbers are. I could live in Kentucky better for less money than I could in New York with more money. When the value and amount of money in circulation can be revalued on demand the numbers are really less relevant.

Tru-dat. When I decided to move from the NY Metro area I chose to move to an area where the cost of living was 16% less and the school system was 'A' rated. Since I was going to make the same salary it was an instant 16% raise.

 

[lwien]

California officially now has the highest minimum wage in the country. The 15.00 minimum wage was just signed into law.

For me, even though I am out of the employment market (retired), I'm really happy about this. Our low wage earners, in my opinion, really deserve this. I'm also of the opinion that for the most part, business's will not limit their hiring or fire people or increase their cost of goods but rather find efficiencies elsewhere that won't hurt their current business and future growth but if by chance, McDonalds has to raise their prices on quarter-pounders by 5 cents, I would gladly pay it so that those working on the other side of the counter has a bit better time of it, that is, if I still ate at McDonalds.