Do you dry bud in a food dehydrator?

[herbgirl]

So i'm on my 3rd or so month vaping exclusively with the MFLB. The mids I get are not dry enough to powder in my grinder so I have to give it an initial grind and then do the whole crumbling revaping routine with a tiny mortar and pestle. it's tolerable but getting kinda old.

Can I dry my buds crispy in my variable temperature dehydrator and then grind? I would think the drier the material, the better it would powder.

this is the one i have (happy birthday to me!) and I love it and use it a few times a week - it is huge and makes some amazing jerky and even yogurt!

http://www.excaliburdehydrator.com/9-Tray-Large-Excalibur-3900-68-37-regular-prod.htm

I use this thing for all my herb harvests (fruits, veg and jerky too!!) peppermint, chamomile, lavender etc. all at very low temps (like 105 degrees maybe) till they get crispy. It seems like it would work for this application too, but looking for some practical experience. Most of the herbs I have dried in it are not as resinous as our dear friend cannabis

I tried to use it once to decarboxylate some bud before making a grain alcohol tincture and the herb looked right and smelled right, but the tincture was very weak. that also may have been my technique though.

Any experiences using dehydrators on bud for any reason would be appreciated.

 

[DaProfessor]

I have a 5 tray Excalibur too! It's an awesome machine. I thought I might need the 9 tray, but when I received my 5 tray, it was freakin' huge. 4lbs of undried jerky only fills 3 trays. I'm sure I could fit 8lbs if I arrange things well.

I've used it to dry bud. I don't use any heat though, just the fan. Never really timed it. I just throw it in for at least 5 hours.

 

[herbgirl]

Ahhhh.... Another Excalibur cult member.

Professor, I have the 9 tray because i garden and it is huge! so big in fact that it has to live in the basement. I haven't yet run out of room. I hesitated to spend the dough for the fancy schmancy square dehydrator with a fan, but I am so glad i did. it has more than paid for itself in the year or so I've had it.

I was thinking about fan only, but the heater seems to click on even at the lowest setting. i'll have to play around with it some more. oh darn.

good to know that it works though. Thanks!

 

[toxicc]

Just leave it in open air for a few hours

 

[wthanna]

Just leave it in open air for a few hours

...while this may work for many locations, if you live in a coastal high humidity area, leaving it out will rehydrate rather than dehydrate your material.

 

[herbgirl]

Just leave it in open air for a few hours

...while this may work for many locations, if you live in a coastal high humidity area, leaving it out will rehydrate rather than dehydrate your material.

Therein lies the rub, the high humidity in the Chesapeake Bay area won't allow me to just lay it out to dry, or sit it on top of the tv or whatever.

I'm right on a river and my stuff will literally absorb moisture from the air and smell and taste, well, kinda like a river. a brackish one at that. I usually store in sealed mason jars. On a few occasions I have left the jar open overnight and the stuff was 'rehydrated' by morning. not too bad for the bong i used to use when i combusted, but no bueno for vaping. tasted funny too.

Probably going to try it tonight for a few hours at the lowest temperature.

 

[herbgirl]

YAY! It worked! Overnight on the lowest setting somewhere >95 f. voila! crispy bud that crumbled beautifully and was much easier to grind fine. still not quite as fine as I would like it, but it eliminates 1 crumbling.
DH commented that it was like i had dried it to the point where it pulled like he had already hit it 3 or 4 times and i think that's pretty accurate.

add that to the list of uses for my beloved dehydrator :-D

 

[ButterMan]

Did you ever make tincture with the stuff you decarbed in the food dehydrator? I'm looking to get a food dehydrator for the decarboxylation of my herb for making tincture. How can I get a perfect decarb every time while keeping the potency as high as possible? I've heard a food dehydrator is the only way to do this consistently.

 

[MinnBobber]

Did you ever make tincture with the stuff you decarbed in the food dehydrator? I'm looking to get a food dehydrator for the decarboxylation of my herb for making tincture. How can I get a perfect decarb every time while keeping the potency as high as possible? I've heard a food dehydrator is the only way to do this consistently.

Decarb needs about 240 F minimum so that's not going to be the right tool for the right job.

 

[ButterMan]

Decarb needs about 240 F minimum so that's not going to be the right tool for the right job.

This is a very common misconception and if you've studied any organic chemistry then you would know this statement to be completely false-

Heat is not a nessasarry factor for the process of decarboxylation- it only speeds up the process- natural decarboxylation can take place over time and without heat.

It's the release of the Co2 that causes the THC-A to convert to THC. The carboxyl group that contains the Co2 breaks off when introduced to heat but many of the newly converted THC molecules can be destroyed/reduced by the very same heat. Ultimately a food dehydrator set at a low temp for a period of a few hours will eliminate all of the trapped Co2 - breaking the carboxyl group off and leaving nothing but fully intact and activated THC.

 

[MinnBobber]

This is a very common misconception and if you've studied any organic chemistry then you would know this statement to be completely false-

Heat is not a nessasarry factor for the process of decarboxylation- it only speeds up the process- natural decarboxylation can take place over time and without heat.

It's the release of the Co2 that causes the THC-A to convert to THC. The carboxyl group that contains the Co2 breaks off when introduced to heat but many of the newly converted THC molecules can be destroyed/reduced by the very same heat. Ultimately a food dehydrator set at a low temp for a period of a few hours will eliminate all of the trapped Co2 - breaking the carboxyl group off and leaving nothing but fully intact and activated THC.

................................................................................

I sure don't trust low temp decarb methods as here's a chart where they did 212 F for over 5 hours and it was no where near the results of high temp decarb.
So, room temp or slightly elevated dehydrator temps???--------I would never take the chance. Just my opinion.

They are getting 5X the conversion vs the double boiler temp!!



For the first test, we used a double-boiler to cook the leaf into the grape seed oil for five to six hours, which is the technique we had used for over 10 years. The second test involved heating the leaf for 30 minutes at 275 degrees before double boiling the leaf. For the third test, we increased the temperature to 300 degrees for 30 minutes before adding it to the oil
..............................................

I'll edit my statement:

For fastest and most complete and repeatable results......
Decarb needs about 240 F minimum so that's not going to be the right tool for the right job.

Change to 230 F minimum too, although I use 240 to be safe

 

[ButterMan]

I'm talking about dehydrating the herbs / you are talking about heating them up- the result is the same -decarboxylation- but my way does not waste any THC

If you get a THC test kit you can actually test your results instead of just guessing. A friend of mine has been doing this and the herb from the dehydrator always tests with a higher percentage of THC after decarb. He has tested the same strain of herbs after they have been decarbed in the oven at 250 degrees (oven thermometer) after 30 mins and then after 60 min after 90 min and the percentage of THC was considerably lower with the oven decarb- every time. Additionally the tinctures my friend has made with same herb strain in a dehydrator are way stronger than anything he has made using an oven decarb. This is what got me interested in dehydrators.

I understand the argument you are making as it's quite an old argument but I'm here to tell you that the decarboxylation method you are describing is outdated and over the years has been misinterpreted-changed and sometimes misunderstood. This is why it's so hard to find a clear cut answer about times and temperatures -also because every strain is different. The dehydrator takes the guess work out of times and temperature because you can't remove too much Co2- once it's gone it's gone and all that is left is fully intact and activated THC ready to be absorbed- none of the THC is wasted and most of the terpenes are intact - making for one very potent and tasty tincture.

................................................................................

I sure don't trust low temp decarb methods as here's a chart where they did 212 F for over 5 hours and it was no where near the results of high temp decarb.
So, room temp or slightly elevated dehydrator temps???--------I would never take the chance. Just my opinion.

They are getting 5X the conversion vs the double boiler temp!!



For the first test, we used a double-boiler to cook the leaf into the grape seed oil for five to six hours, which is the technique we had used for over 10 years. The second test involved heating the leaf for 30 minutes at 275 degrees before double boiling the leaf. For the third test, we increased the temperature to 300 degrees for 30 minutes before adding it to the oil
..............................................

I'll edit my statement:

For fastest and most complete and repeatable results......
Decarb needs about 240 F minimum so that's not going to be the right tool for the right job.

Change to 230 F minimum too, although I use 240 to be safe

 

[MinnBobber]

I'm talking about dehydrating the herbs / you are talking about heating them up- the result is the same -decarboxylation- but my way does not waste any THC

........................................................

It still doesn't make sense to me. Look at the chart I gave. Material at near boiling for 5 - 6 hours (Test 1) had only 1/5 the converted THC compared to Test 2 which was 275 F for 30 minutes.
You mentioned to get a test kit but that chart/test used high-pressure liquid chromatography technique, the gold standard in testing.

So how can even lower temps in a food dehydrator do the job in a reasonable timeframe when Test 1 converts so little?

 

[ButterMan]

I've already answered the questions that you are asking in my previous posts.

 

[MinnBobber]

Thanks but you have not answered the actual test results shown above which clearly show that medium temp decarb (slightly below 212 F) does not convert anywhere near high temp 275 F conversion (1/5 as effective).

So, how does low temp conversion then get the job done? If 6 hours at 200 F doesn't do it, how can overnight in a dehydrator possibly do it??

I see no test results to show a food dehydrator can go beyond drying or curing, into the realm of decarbing.
And here's another test showing even at 176 F, no decarb after an hour so how does it ramp up to decarb in a food dehydrator?

 

[ButterMan]

Thanks but you have not answered the actual test results shown above which clearly show that medium temp decarb (slightly below 212 F) does not convert anywhere near high temp 275 F conversion (1/5 as effective).

So, how does low temp conversion then get the job done? If 6 hours at 200 F doesn't do it, how can overnight in a dehydrator possibly do it??

I see no test results to show a food dehydrator can go beyond drying or curing, into the realm of decarbing.
And here's another test showing even at 176 F, no decarb after an hour so how does it ramp up to decarb in a food dehydrator?

Ok man I understand- it seems you're really hung up on the idea that HEAT = Decarboxylation

lets see if I can explain this better - as I stated before

*Heat is not a nessasarry factor for decarboxylation*

It only speeds up the process but not in a good way- rarely does it convert effectively or evenly - so the graph you are referring to does not really have anything to do with what I'm talking about. Which is decarboxylation via the removal of the Co2 that bonds the A (in THC-A) to the THC.

Higher Heat will certainly remove the Co2 but it will also remove/degrade THC and CBD if kept too hot for too long- especially if the herbs were really bone dry to start with. The starting moisture level of the tested material does not even factor into that chart and that is why that chart and charts like it are pretty much useless.

What I'm talking about is removing JUST the Co2 by removing (drying) it out of the herbs with the dehydrator. The application of the low heat in the dehydrator only helps speed up the process of dehydration (removing Co2) but again- no heat whatsoever is needed to decarb-

This is why those who live in a very dry climate can decarb by simply leaving herbs out in the dry air for an extended period of time.

The "THC" in "THC-A" cannot be absorbed by your body because of the "A". The "A" is a carboxyl group that is bonded to the THC molecule by Co2- so remove the Co2 and all that is left is readily absorbable THC.

If that graph included herbs that were decarbed using a dehydrator you would see them at the top with the highest percentage of THC because there is absolutely no loss or degradation of the THC itself. But since the graph you are referring to only uses varying Times/Temps and has no mention of dehydration or the moisture levels of the herbs before testing it has no real scientific value.

What I'm saying is if my herbs were already dry to start (naturally decarbed) and I followed that chart I may just end up cooking off precious THC because my herb was already partially decarbed from being exposed to air (loss of the co2 carboxal group)

The chart mentions nothing about the moisture level of the starting material- time and temperature are only two varibles in a somewhat complex chemical procedure- two varibles are not nearly enough to present any kind of real accuracy.

Less varibles equate to more room for error!

In conclusion since decarboxylation is really just removing the bonded co2 from the THC-A to get THC you can see how the oven decarb is not very efficient or accurate in doing this. It's really just a guessing game because too many varibles have been omitted from this outdated method.

Hope that helps

 

[Puffers]

@ButterMan

Interesting posts I have been following non-heat decarb methods for a while now either naturally done over time (ND oil thread @Grow Goddess ) or like a citric acid extraction although I don't know if that would be considered heatless.

Hopefully some other members can provide some experience if all else fails I look forward to hearing your results later. I hope you will update us. Good luck.