Do most of you "vape" at a temperature that combusts?

[kellya86]

Maybe some one can clear something up here, from the way people talk, I assumed it was obvious if you combust...

People talk of getting the smoke taste out of the glass.

I thought I would know if I'd been combusting???

I vape my herb at 185-200 in my eq (ddave), I'm pretty sure iv never combusted...

 

[herbivore21]

Kelly you are right to say that when one combusts accidentally, it requires a full blown thorough cleaning of entire airpath due to nasty taste/smell.

The OP of this thread spotted an vape temp chart or something similar that said that vaping past a given temp is combustion (these charts seriously need to go, they are just not helpful for the application and can cause scares or leaves people thinking they are fractioning off isolates from their flower whilst vaping - both completely unnecessarily).

Remember, combustion creates a visible flame (this is not the kind of combustion one should ever get from a vape) or a sustained cherry (known as smouldering, this is what we are used to when cannabis combusts).

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Remember, combustion creates a visible flame (this is not the kind of combustion one should ever get from a vape) or a sustained cherry (known as smouldering, this is what we are used to when cannabis combusts).

Technically, when you "char" the top of a load, that is also combustion. It's very low energy combustion, but combustion all the same. Similiar in vein to smoldering, but the idea that a cherry needs to form IMO is false. It's a binary state, a cherry is formed by more energy and heat through combustion, if that makes sense. I may be somewhat wrong in my terminology.

Like, just for example, I take my flame and light a bowl, that is higher energy combustion. From that flame now being in the bowl, I'm having "lower" energy combustion as that spreads but both I would consider a higher energy combustion than smoldering. Smoldering, is an even lower form of combustion (think leaves on a fire), and charring, an even lower form.

I may have screwed up some of the terminology, my main points are

A) Combustion does not need a visible flame
B) A sustained cherry is not really the same as smoldering. Actually I think one of the points of smoldering was flameless combustion, but I'm not totally sure on that.
C) Charring a load is technically combustion, a very low end form of it. Once you reach combustion, it is reached. Something can be combusted via high energy combustion, IE a flame, and you can combust the whole bowl in one hit or just enough heat is brought into it that the top of the load is charred. But still, in both cases, combustion was reached. Combustion is combustion, but there are different forms of it.

There was another thread in here that had lots of good information about combustion hidden between a lot of comically uninformed posts, I'd recommend perusing through it if anyone is interested.

On some of the other points:

- I immediately know when my load is HIGH ENERGY COMBUSTED! You can just taste it. You can also taste when it's starting to get charred IMO. Maybe not everyone, but I certainly can with my Lotus, Vapman, EVO, etc.

- I vape at high temps all the time when I want my body to be REAL relaxed (particularly, when I have a tight/sore back) and I find high temps do that for me. I am not particularly worried about anything in my vapor at a high temp. Still not even worried about my lungs when I char a bit.

 

[Tommy10]

Haha! This again! Pretty sure there are two other threads on the first page about this. I think the most obvious thing to point out has already been done. What a vape temp reads is not an indication of what the load temp actually is. Would be pretty hard to figure out what exact temp the herb is at without a decent set up.

 

[herbivore21]

Dude, I mentioned myself that combustion does not need a visible flame. The kind of combustion we are talking about without a visible flame (sometimes a bright cherry instead, sometimes it is not easy for the naked eye to determine that anything is taking place until you touch or smell it) is smouldering. See https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstr...ein_SmoulderingReview_IRECHE09.pdf?sequence=1 for a more detailed breakdown.

Smouldering is a type of combustion. I drew no dichotomy between smouldering combustion and visible flame higher energy combustion. Both are combustion. From the article above:

"The fundamental difference between smouldering and flaming combustion is that, in the former, the oxidation reaction and the heat release occur on the solid surface of the fuel or porous matrix and, in the latter, these occur in the gas phase surrounding the fuel."

Smouldering is exactly the 'low energy combustion' you are talking about brother. Charring simply describes incomplete combustion (in our case, incomplete smouldering combustion), leaving residual carbon etc (what we would call ash or char).

A sustained cherry is by definition, smouldering. Cannabis is a very well known smouldering product, and as the source above highlights, is what happens when we smoke a cigarette too! You can of course have smouldering with an invisible cherry (not bright enough to be seen by the naked eye, often char may be what leads the observer to know that smouldering is taking place!).

At higher temps (higher energy combustion as you describe), we will see a flame in the gas phase (air above the material) rather than a cherry (which may or may not be visible to the naked eye) which is characteristic of smouldering combustion when found in the condensed phase (solid material that is combusting).

Charring is simply a description for incomplete combustion (see the above article), where there is residual carbon etc leftover. Most smouldering reactions leave some amount of char. Think of all that ash people drop off of their cigarettes.

Hope this helps clear things up, got me some papers to mark!

 

[HellsWindStaff]

A sustained cherry is by definition, smouldering. Cannabis is a very well known smouldering product, and as the source above highlights, is what happens when we smoke a cigarette too! You can of course have smouldering with an invisible cherry (not bright enough to be seen by the naked eye, often char may be what leads the observer to know that smouldering is taking place!).

I appreciate the knowledge, I wasn't disagreeing just was adding the bit about charring, and questioning the bit about the cherry

Just was viewing a sustained cherry as, idk...... something in between a visible flame combustion and smouldering? I think I was just getting hung up on the visualization of it a bright glowing cherry does not equal flame, but I did not know that be definition it was smoldering. You most definitely cleared it up, specifically with some of the science behind it, thanks again for the knowledge!

 

[herbivore21]

I appreciate the knowledge, I wasn't disagreeing just was adding the bit about charring, and questioning the bit about the cherry

Just was viewing a sustained cherry as, idk...... something in between a visible flame combustion and smouldering? I think I was just getting hung up on the visualization of it a bright glowing cherry does not equal flame, but I did not know that be definition it was smoldering. You most definitely cleared it up, specifically with some of the science behind it, thanks again for the knowledge!

Understandable brother and no problem at all Actually that article itself highlights that we are not 100% clear on the various ways that oxidation/pyrolysis take place in these kinds of combustion situations. It is amazing to think that something mankind has harnessed for so long is still not fully understood!

 

[Tommy10]

Worth noting, usually if i combust in say the hammer she sparks up and the whole bowl ignites. With the vapcap and the cap off, I ignited just the bottom of the bowl, saw glowing stopped inhaling and on dumping the bottom was white ash but the top was just brown abv. First time I have noticed conbusting a portion of a bowl.

 

[herbivore21]

Worth noting, usually if i combust in say the hammer she sparks up and the whole bowl ignites. With the vapcap and the cap off, I ignited just the bottom of the bowl, saw glowing stopped inhaling and on dumping the bottom was white ash but the top was just brown abv. First time I have noticed conbusting a portion of a bowl.

That slow partial combustion is what we would refer to as incomplete smouldering combustion, causing charring of the fuel (cannabis in this case)

The faster combustion you see in the hammer is still incomplete smouldering no doubt, but much more complete than the vapcap example (there'll still be ash/carbon/char here so it is not strictly complete combustion).

 

[Poostuff]

Oh fuck me that's new, a thread questioning everyone's vaping technique.
High temp vaping is distinctly different from smoking no matter what you label them, anyone who's tried both knows this. Anyway quibbling over semantics of when combustion actually occurs is so 2015.

 

[herbivore21]

Oh fuck me that's new, a thread questioning everyone's vaping technique.
High temp vaping is distinctly different from smoking no matter what you label them, anyone who's tried both knows this. Anyway quibbling over semantics of when combustion actually occurs is so 2015.

Come on bro, we all know that you are a partially combusting imposter of a vaporist. Why else would you attack this thread????

I kid!

 

[Poostuff]

Ha, vaping is complicated @herbivore21
On one hand you have smokers telling you to put a flame to it because, “Nothing's happening dude.” On the other hand you've got the low temperatures vapers (I call them raw food vapers) complaining that you need turn the temperature down because, “Dude you're burning everything.”

 

[herbivore21]

Ha, vaping is complicated @herbivore21
On one hand you have smokers telling you to put a flame to it because, “Nothing's happening dude.” On the other hand you've got the low temperatures vapers (I call them raw food vapers) complaining that you need turn the temperature down because, “Dude you're burning everything.”

hahahahahahhahaha I love 'raw food vapers' as a description bro. I'm imagining David Wolfe telling us how to vape.

 

[Vitolo]

Do most of you "vape" at a temperature that combusts?

No.... Not I..
SSV=1 P.M. on dial
Solo= #4
Volcano= 377º
Prima= 4
Inhalater=6

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I have most assuredly combusted by accident several times. They were all with my Lotus vape. I still love my Lotus, but it is very capable of full-out combustion if you're not practiced in the torch area or impatient or not paying attention. Charring has occurred more often than ash-producing combustion. I have a mason jar full of ABV that has several hits of charred material in it. I will probably just throw it away than mess with the nasty flavors and "compounds" in it.

I have to think that the temps we are talking about here for combustion (starting in the 200C range) address the heat of activation needed to begin the combustion process. In the exact location where plant material is combusting and there is a glowing or flaming area, that the temp is much higher than 200C. Any compounds produced in those areas are also feeding into your vapor or smoke. Yes/no?

I mostly now vape with the e-nano on a setting of 6. Now, the 6 means different things to different nanos, but I wonder what range I'm normally in? Can shine my IR thermometer on the bowl when actively vaping? The temp on the screen of the heater is going to higher than the temp lower in the bowl area so I wouldn't think that is a good indicator of vaping temps.

 

[seaofgreens]

This has to be the same guy under a different name who was pushing the idea that you can partially combust in the Zion thread...

In what way is this Zamnesia link you keep pushing, a legitimate source of information? It doesn't even list its own sources, and is also a vaporizer shop... Dubious.... to say the least.

 

[kellya86]

This seems to be another thing like is the solo conduction or convection...
There will be no clear answer...

I just wanted to know if I'd notice if I was combusting...

Now I know that I would notice if I combusted, I'm sure I haven't. ..

I would love to see a gif of full blown combustion occurring in a vape...

Is it spectacular????

 

[Tommy10]

Been doing a lot of conbusting playing with the vapcap far from spectacular :/ but I will say, my general rule of thumb is if you aren't sure if you combusted, you most likely didn't.

 

[Stevenski]

Ha, vaping is complicated @herbivore21
On one hand you have smokers telling you to put a flame to it because, “Nothing's happening dude.” On the other hand you've got the low temperatures vapers (I call them raw food vapers) complaining that you need turn the temperature down because, “Dude you're burning everything.”

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I would love to see a gif of full blown combustion occurring in a vape...

Is it spectacular????

I have accidentally combusted quite a few times with my Aromed mod. Nothing even close to spectacular.

The first clue that I have just combusted is that I see smoke going down the stem of my herb holder. And then I taste it. And then, even though combustion has stopped, I can't stop tasting it until I clean my glassware and screen a couple times. (I think the nasty taste lurks mostly in the screen.)

 

[kellya86]

Ah I had visions of a botanical bonfire...

How can you tell the difference (visually) between smoke and vapour.???

 

[Hashtag46&2]

The first time "Accidental Combustion" occurred in my DBV, I noticed it immediately.....

The load lit up like a red flashlight, the yellowish greasy vapor turned to a dark gray and the taste was horrendous.

I usually catch it before it actually hits my lungs, as the sense of smell is much more sensitive after an extended period of exclusive Vaporization.

Lol... The first time it happened.....

It was so gross... I literally blew the smoke back into the whip, making a huge stinky mess, as I blew the material onto the heating element .

This is one those posts we need a "Love " button for.....

Oh fuck me that's new, a thread questioning everyone's vaping technique.
High temp vaping is distinctly different from smoking no matter what you label them, anyone who's tried both knows this. Anyway quibbling over semantics of when combustion actually occurs is so 2015.

 

[Tommy10]

Yes regardless of what some might say about the dangers of high temp vaping I know this. I happily combusted for years, if vaping never came around Id happily be doing so still. I'd say we would mostly agree that in the grand scheme even conbusting MJ is a pretty harmless ordeal, and vaping it is shown to be even more healthy a delivery system.

It may worry some, but I just can't get caught up in the what gets released May be toxic and this and that as really it does not bother me. Risk reward and all that jazz, I also know that while this high temp stuff might have some more risk toxin wise (don't know the science but I acknowledged it may be possible for higher temps to release some "toxins") it certainly is not combustion until it burns I say and you know when that is. If it were possible to accurately do so Id vape right under conbustion if possible, even the worst tasting vapor can't be confused for combusted.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

How can you tell the difference (visually) between smoke and vapour.???

Smoke is about 100 times thicker-looking than vapor as it goes down the herb holder's stem; I'm not exaggerating. I usually can't see much (or any) vapor within the glass--even when I end up blowing big clouds--but when there's smoke it looks very dense.

Also, I experience nothing I would call "partial combustion" (or whatever term was used earlier in this thread to indicate an in-between state).

 

[Tommy10]

Yes, glass stem or whip it is noticeable visually straight away. Even a big thick vapor hit on the hammer I notice visible moving vapor through the stem at first then it thins out. If you suddenly combust the stem will be filled with thick smelly visble smoke and the taste and smell is foul. I understand some noobs could combust at the end of a hit and not tell, but anyone familiar with vaping and how that works should be able to pick it up pretty quick. Some very cooked herb can have a bad taste, when you push it a little bit past that popcorn stage, and produce just very very black ABV no ash. The taste of that compared to combustion is still pretty night and day to me.