Distilling bulk weed directly into oil using a vape?

[Casper]

Hi guys



I really love hash oil but extracting it is often fiddly, time-consuming, failure-prone or downright dangerous. But I'll smoke one hit of oil over 20 hits of bud any old tick of the clock. Just pondering things - if vapour condenses into hash oil, why couldn't I rig up some spiral condenser tubing (such as that found in stills) directly the the bowl of an extreme and let the vape blow through bowl after bowl? I'm willing to bet a great deal of the vapour condenses directly into oil, especially if using with high-quality condenser tubing and lots of it. With a bit of tweaking and back-and-forth you could make pretty sure you got basically all of it. Extraction would be as easy as running a few passes of ISO through the tubing and evaporating off the nasties.

If my hunch is correct and it's perfectly feasible, it seems an extremely efficient and safe way of extracting bulk oil from large amounts of weed, and would yield big returns of high-quality product with all the fuss of packing a bowl repeatedly. Seems better than running goddamn butane through a goddamn pipe, out in the middle of nowhere lest you suddenly blow yourself to pieces.

Is this a common practise? Are there any obvious barriers I'm missing?


Casper

 

[pyronym]

http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=1134

 

[Casper]

Sup Pyronym. Yeh, I saw that thread but it was pretty inconclusive, mostly dealt with exhaled vapour and didn't discuss the bulk distillation process I have in mind, with the custom homebrew fittings and whatnot. I'm speaking specifically of the feasibility of using a vape to get large amounts done fast and safe for those of us who really dig hash oil. I'm still waiting for my first vape (V-Tower) to wend its way from canada or I'd prolly just try it out myself. Seemed such a good idea thought I'd see if others had actually tried it, ot heard of it being done.

If it's all good I'm gonna turn most of my currently drying Clever Man into sweet syrupy goodness.

 

[Purple-Days]

So are you planning any cooling of the condensor? Water or ice water bath on a coil of tygon. What length??? 30 feet? Sounds feasable. But I'de rather vape it straight up. Unless you wanna stop by and show the results.

 

[Beezleb]

I have always imagined an all glass type of tubing setup that condenses all the vapor and collecting it. I dont know how to do it but I am an avid believer in vapor hash and would seriously like to see what serious people on the subject have to say on it.

While ISO is great at collecting it, in the end form its not so user friendly so I tend to prefer to scrape my wand instead of using ISO.

 

[Purple-Days]

Yes, Beez, not an ISO collection, rather a mechanical collection device. IME for length and strength Dental Floss goes a long way for the price. A washer or some scraper in a round shape might work. More length + chilling , I think , would provide optimum collection.

So, NOW, I am thinking large scale industrial farming of Mid-Grade and harvest in a conventional scale for processing.

Here is where the Eterra comes back around full circle.

The guy that developed the Eterra (this is my understanding) was working for the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency {USA} ) and was looking at a vapor recovery tech thst would use the vapor as a combustible fuel, recovered from waste (garbage). The light went off and his cigar smoking office mate might have another way of inhaling Nicotine. A US Patent was issued in 1978.

So,why not the same vapor recovery (condensded) as the waste garbage facility. Except recovering gases as fuel,recover vapor as condensate? All food grade, of course. big vats and augers and steam heated. Stainless vats ! And all other tools to that spec.

Some Day !

 

[Spiderman]

If you are attempting to turn herb into oil, why go through the process of heating it to the point of vaporization and then collecting it? I'd guess that if anything would cause the oil to degrade, that would be it.

Just try oil extraction (or hash, if you prefer) methods to just turn the herb directly into the oil. If you want direction, search, or just ask here. Someone will happily help.

I have sampled the quality of vapor oil against butane extracted bud oil, many times, and the two are not comparable. Vapor oil is significantly weaker in taste, as well as potency. I also double blind tested multiple other subjects whose opinions i trust, who all remarked exactly the same thing. "It's like BHO-lite."

If butane extraction seems too dangerous to you, by all means, stick with bubble bags....extraction can be acheived with a relative amount of safety, given proper precaution. There are many instances of successful oil makers throughout the world.

Learning from the mistakes of others does not, in this case, necessitate abstaining completely....just learning what they did wrong.

 

[Casper]

Thanks for the replies guys! Yes, i was thinking of cooling the condensor tubes and totally going all-out and perhaps a little obsessive with it. It's interesting to hear the wand oil isn't the equal of butane extracted hash. I was badly burnt in a housefire as a kid and I have a full-on crippling fear of being surrounded by billowing clouds of flammable substance. I also find bubble bags to be fiddly and inefficient so I thought I'd found the answer to my prayers.

But all is not lost! I'm sure I could distill the wand hash even further with a few simple processes and get it close enough to butane hash that the risk/reward matrix would make it worth it.

It can be done! I'm sure of it. Anything that increases useability of vapes is a good thing.

I'll got 3oz drying now and a vape in the mail so I'll set aside a quarter and oil it. I'll be sure to post some pictures.

 

[Beezleb]

Using a vaporizer to make oil it while not creating an oil in the full spectrum as traditionally made oil but it would allow you to potentially tailor make an oil strength/properties different based on the temperature vaped at.

I have no knowledge or mechanical aptitude that would allow me to create such a system but I am confident when their is a system and when its worked out, I will most likely be up front in center.

Wand hash is one of my favorite parts of vaping. For me its like a credit card rewards program, you get a little bit back with each use.

 

[Durden]

This is a more interesting topic than you guys might think, especially for medical patients. Using a solvent to produce anything like BHO (even using ISO washes) is an automatic felony under medical laws (and most local laws where possession is a misdemeanor) so using an 'organic' means of extracting THC into concentrate form is preferable.

I've been trying to use oven bags to vaporize my material in the oven with the idea of making much more potent edibles ever since I was given a edible that a friend had made using BHO oil, and I've had mixed results so far. While I haven't been able to try them for various reasons yet (this weekend will probably disappear though) the coconut oil I used in this process turned a dark brown instead of the usual green. I was so surprised by the result that I thought it might be my herb or the oil I was using, so I ran another couple of batches and have a batch ready to go made of coconut oil and one of goats milk butter made in my normal stove top method (4-5 hours on the stove, cheesecloth strain, temperature separation) that look very green and normal. It's probably going to take me several days before I have a solid answer on the relative strengths of each batch, and another week before i have a better method/process ready to go.

The idea of the oven bag was that I could freeze it right after to make the physical extraction of the crystals easier for me, which turned out to be much more difficult than I thought. The next time I'm going to try to set up a pyrex dish upside down and use the oven bag to create an airtight seal around the base, that way I can just pour warm coconut oil into the dish when it's done instead of worrying about scraping and crushing. I'm hoping/thinking that the oven process extracts most of the THC and so further processing isn't necessary beyond filtration of the material. I think ideally I would put the oil into the dish, let it sit and mix it around on the sides until it starts to harden to allow it to absorb the crystals on the glass, then pour steaming hot water into the dish for separation. Depending how these turn out I may even skip the straining process and just do 2-3 temperature separations to simplify the whole process.

As for the oil discussion, I will try a small amount using this process and then freeze the container to allow for scraping. I may have to let it cook for longer and at a higher temperature to get all the actives to form as crystals/oil.

If anyone has any thoughts on this method or possible devices/kitchen supplies which might be helpful I'd greatly appreciate it, most of this idea has come from reading this site (I got the idea from reading the thread titled 'cooking with vapor' and then watching a top chef contestant using molecular gastronomy).

Edit: added paragraph breaks

 

[Casper]

Totally with you on the wand hash front beez. as a bonghead I'd invariably scrape the resin out and smoke it. It was like the filthy, reeking cherry on the top of a nice smoke sundae. but just looking it kinda made you consider your own mortality and general overall cardiovascular health. guess wand hash is less likely to kill you. interestingly, i've read elsewhere vaping resin from a regular pipe is highly effective and somewhat tasty even.

and that's the spirit, purple-days! we gotta do something with all that crap and using it to pay rent seems a little unimaginative.

 

[bluntfaced]

wand hash sucks

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

Using a solvent to produce anything like BHO (even using ISO washes) is an automatic felony under medical laws

where? the last time i checked hash oil was availible in ca dispensaries, i never remember reading anything in the laws that said extractions were illegal
i can only speak for cali's med laws though

 

[Durden]

From my understanding talking to several club owners in CA hash and concentrates has to be done using only organic methods or it falls under standard drug laws and isn't covered by the medical laws. It's still possible to produce hash and other concentrates without using a chemical solvent like butane or iso such as the bubble bags which freeze the trichomes and then filter them mechanically. I've seen videos of people taking bubble bag extracts and pressing and baking them to change their texture and appearance so I assume some other method is used to make the oil. I've purchased oil and 'glass' from several clubs around here as well but they say it isn't made using butane. A club owner was the person who alerted me to the illegality of making or possessing BHO when I told him about the edibles I was thinking of making with BHO oil from ABV.

 

[vap999]

There are no simply and practical ways of extracting oil, much less high-purity cannabinoids (and forget about purifying THC from cannabinoids), from plant material, and particularly not at the small scales we are talking about. A check of recent scientific articles should show some current laboratory methods.

But in the end, trying to make hash oil from vaporization condensate is largely a waste of time! Vaporization of dry plant material does a very good job of volatilizing and delivering into the lungs in rather pure form the oil fractions, including cannabinoids, that you want. Restated: most any vaporizer output is already about as pure as you can get without serious chemical lab processing, and this can be inhaled directly. You can't really beat this with any other technology.

If your quest if for heavier hits, there are some vaporizers with a good reputation for this; or get better cannabis.

If you want to collect condensate (and it certainly should be ingested one way or the other), keep it simple, such as not using long condenser coils. And rather than using isopropyl alcohol or other organic solvent to dissolve the oil, presuming your condensate is bound to glass or metal, why not just vaporize it (even if you have to heat it slowly, evenly with a flame).

 

[Durden]

There are no simply and practical ways of extracting oil, much less high-purity cannabinoids (and forget about purifying THC from cannabinoids), from plant material, and particularly not at the small scales we are talking about. A check of recent scientific articles should show some current laboratory methods.

Do you mean through vaporization? Because BHO and ISO washes can be done with as little as 1-2 grams and are relatively simple. You might be right about not being able to get pure THC from cannabinoids, but I don't see a problem with additional cannabinoids in the end result.

But in the end, trying to make hash oil from vaporization condensate is largely a waste of time! Vaporization of dry plant material does a very good job of volatilizing and delivering into the lungs in rather pure form the oil fractions, including cannabinoids, that you want. Restated: most any vaporizer output is already about as pure as you can get without serious chemical lab processing, and this can be inhaled directly. You can't really beat this with any other technology.

If your quest if for heavier hits, there are some vaporizers with a good reputation for this; or get better cannabis.

If you're satisfied with your current routine and can still produce better effects by simply getting better cannabis then I could understand why you'd consider it a waste of time, but I already get some of the best cannabis around and have for several years. I get heavy hits from my Extreme or SSV, but those hits are much more satisfying and potent when I add in bubble bag blond hash and are on a different level for pain mediation than plant material and kief can provide. If 'better cannabis' can be the solution for bigger hits because of its high levels of active materials, then theoretically producing something with an even higher level of active materials to volume would produce even larger hits.

I'm just looking for an alternative to spending a couple hundred dollars on bubble bags or stepping over the legal line by using solvents personally. Doing some tests on schwag and trimmings is easy and cheap enough considering the possible reward.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

as of late ive only been collecting the nice red stuff from my extreme whip and actually putting right back into my flame controlled vapes (VG and Vaporstar) and revaping it with a tiny bit of extra herb. Get lots of hits off of it, and save my herb

 

[vap999]

I get heavy hits from my Extreme or SSV, but those hits are much more satisfying and potent when I add in bubble bag blond hash and are on a different level for pain mediation than plant material and kief can provide.

Your goal appears to be medicinal (pain relief) rather than recreational. I have no experience with this. You could well be seeking the effects of a different ratio of THC isomerrs, a specific isomer or other cannabinoid(s).

Somewhat off-topic: As a medical MJ patient, perhaps you might try Sativex from GW Pharmaceuticals. This is an oral spray of greenhouse-grown, plant-derived, purified THC and cannabidiol fractions. Each spray delivers 2.7 mg THC and 2.5 mg cannabidiol. This is now marketed in Canada by Bayer for "neuropathic pain in multiple Sclerosis...[and] as adjunctive analgesic treatment in patients with advanced cancer who experience moderate to severe pain during the highest tolerated dose of strong opioid therapy for persistent background pain." If you are in California (or otherwise), you might try to purchase some of this, presuming your physician will write a prescription, and Canadian pharmacies will ship it to you.

 

[Purple-Days]

So, any thoughts on a long column gas chromatography type isolation? Canabinoids at different lengths of condensation and temperature of condensate rather than temps of vaporization at the initial heat-up. Heat it high, then collect at different stages / lengths / temperatures of condensation. Back to MAJOR bulk processes, but natural, no solvents. More like an oil refinery / alchy distillery... Use heat and condensation.

 

[Casper]

I agree with Durden. The quest is not simply for a low-orbit high. Let's face it - these days, weed is basically narcotic and if you want to wend to the moon to lay treaties with the star council then you can blaze some AK-47 and go right ahead.

In the same way, I can get cooking essence for $7 a bottle that's 160 proof.

Sure, I guzzled that when I was a kid but now I'm all about the single malt and oil's where it's at.

I also use it for medicinal purposes and the ability to precisely titrate my dose is very attractive.

To continue the alcohol theme, I see it as like preferring top-shelf whiskey over top-flight beer. No use just trying to drink more beer to get the same effect, or stronger beer. There's zero comparison.

I can't wait to try it! Hurry up V-Tower!

 

[Casper]

And Purple-Days - I think if we're talking industrial scales then yes, isolating cannabinoids at different condensation spectrums is a perfectly feasible, very intriguing idea. It stands to reason the evaporation process might even catalyse some new cannabinoids, or at least change the concentrations and character of existing ones enough to make investigation seem a good idea. It also suggests the interesting scenario of 'cocktails' with measurable amounts of different cannabinoids to achieve specific effects. Casper's Cocktail Lounge. Where Carrying You Out To The Taxi Is Something We Consider.

I'm thinking banks of gigantic superheated clothesdryers that thoroughly tumble and heat the weed to desired temp, connected directly to distillation towers. And teetering mounds of 44G drums to pack it all up in! Drool.

On a more realistic scale, the bulk extraction process I had in mind presents a few problems with extracting at different spectrums. Perhaps marking out different condensation points on the tubing, then cutting out joins and giving them a wash separately would work.

Keeping to the smaller scale, the diameter of the tubing would be something to tweak. If most of the oil condenses at the elbow (in an Extreme) at a point quite close to initial vaporisation, then having generous initial vertical length on the tubing and a wide diameter might make the oil distil in wider, easier-to-separate bands. Conversely, tightly-wound, lower-diameter tubing might prove more efficient overall.

But to be honest, all I can think about is giant clothesdryers vaping bales of weed. Clearly, this is something that needs to happen for the good of all mankind.

 

[Durden]

Vap99 Wrote:
as a medical MJ patient, perhaps you might try Sativex from GW Pharmaceuticals. This is an oral spray of greenhouse-grown, plant-derived, purified THC and cannabidiol fractions. Each spray delivers 2.7 mg THC and 2.5 mg cannabidiol. This is now marketed in Canada by Bayer for "neuropathic pain in multiple Sclerosis...

Thanks for the heads up! That looks like a very interesting product to me, I have nerve and back pain stemming from my scoliosis and several concussions so I seem like a good candidate for it. Sadly I've already looked into shipping from Canada for another medical product and don't think it will work. I'll definitely start looking for some at the clubs around here to try.

Purple Days Wrote:
So, any thoughts on a long column gas chromatography type isolation? Canabinoids at different lengths of condensation and temperature of condensate rather than temps of vaporization at the initial heat-up. Heat it high, then collect at different stages / lengths / temperatures of condensation. Back to MAJOR bulk processes, but natural, no solvents. More like an oil refinery / alchy distillery... Use heat and condensation. cool

This makes me think of thermal depolymerization, which is basically the process of making oil and raw materials out of trash or anything else you decide to throw into the giant pressure cooker. I think that process would be too intense for our purposes but it shows that in theory it should be possible. If they can use heat and pressure to make oil out of turkey waste and plastic bottles then it's just a matter of figuring it out for this particular use.

On a side note my vapor created munchies did just fine, but they weren't anything special and came out very similar to my stovetop created munchies from the same batch of material. I find it interesting since they took about 3/4 of the time to make, but were more labor intensive and required more cooking utensils. I've got a lot of reading to do before I run another test batch it seems

 

[Purple-Days]

The commercial dryer ??? Hmmm... Gonna need a lot of quarters... Sounds like a starting point ! Now we need a bale of weed and a lot of hose.

Yes, that's what I was thinking, a cocktail of the different levels of distillate. One level might be THE pain killer, or one might be the one for appetite, another for just plain stoner fun.

 

[KeepCalm]

Sorry to continue off-topic but Sativex is some interesting stuff. Like others have mentioned, it's a whole-plant botanical extraction, and the really neat part is it's a blend of 2 specific cultivars of weed. One is bred so that the cannabinoid profile is over 90% THC, and the other so that the profile is over 90% CBN. The result is a tincture thats active ingredient is around 50% CBN, while most people say that CBN has been almost eliminated through breeding in the recreational strains that exist on the black market. Cool stuff. I guess the clinical trials are going on right now for the US market. http://cannabis.net/cannabis-seed/index.html

 

[vap999]

So, any thoughts on a long column gas chromatography type isolation? Canabinoids at different lengths of condensation and temperature of condensate rather than temps of vaporization at the initial heat-up. Heat it high, then collect at different stages / lengths / temperatures of condensation. Back to MAJOR bulk processes, but natural, no solvents. More like an oil refinery / alchy distillery... Use heat and condensation.

Now if MJ were legalized, with this being a very high value and profit product, many processes we dismiss as too complex could be adapted for industrial-scale purification.

Any real chemists out there? Or has anyone reviewed the scientific literature on THC purification methods?

Check out the U.S. patent "Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials" from GW Pharm., the source for Sativex, at http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...XT&s1=7344736.PN.&OS=PN/7344736&RS=PN/7344736
I would presume this patent covers much or all of the company's methods for purification of Sativex. Once you get past the convoluted patent language and syntax used in the Claims and Description sections, the Examples are easier to read.