Decarboxylation of THC and Cannabis Honey

[YourPalHal]

Hello Everyone!

I just had a couple of quick questions that I hoped could be answered by someone out there.


First of all, I just bought a bottle of THC infused honey, and after a vial of the sweet liquid sat under my tongue, I was gone. I'm very interested in this product, and would love to make some at some point.

So my first question is: Is ABV decarboxylated to the point that an extraction would be unnecessary? I know that in order for THC to become psychoactive, it must first be decarboxylated, but I wasn't sure if vaporizing it would achieve this.

Secondly: If I were to mix an ounce of ABV into a quart of honey, and heated it for an hour or so, then strained the mixture, would the honey be infused with THC, or would it still be in the plant matter?

I would like to not have to deal with glycerin or alcohol tinctures, and would love for this to work, however I really have no clue, so any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

Peace, and Happy Vaping!

 

[Tuck]

I don't know anything about honey, but yes abv is decarboxylated. I love honey, though. So I'm very interested in where this leads.

 

[herbgirl]

Hal, i too have wondered about this - later i'll check my herbals for references to using honey as a solvent.

i am assuming that if it is not cannabis honey (varietal honey collected only from cannabis flowers) but THC infused honey, the infusion part would involve steeping, heating or something to draw out the actives. maybe honey has enough fat/alcohol solubility to actually work. not sure.

almost sounds like the legendary honey slides which sound interesting, but i haven't been able to nail down exactly how it's done.

that all being said, you could probably use the solvent exchange method to get the goodies from the alcohol to the honey.

 

[herbgirl]

Hal, here are some links

http://www.truthtree.com/marijuana_recipes2.shtml

http://augmentinforce.50webs.com/tincture making.htm

so it seems that it can be done, just choose your method.

 

[YourPalHal]

Awesome, herbgirl! Thank you very much.

 

[Tuck]

After reading both of those, I think what I'd do is do an alcohol extraction.

Then, make a honey simple syrup using 1 part honey and 1 part water. bring to a boil and boil for 1 minute or until the honey is dissolved. Then let that sit for 30 minutes. You can store that in the fridge after you are done.

Once you have your simple syrup, I'd figure out your dosage by doing 1-5ml of simple syrup per gram of abv/bud you started with. Mix that with your tincture and bring it back to a boil and cook off your PGA, using herbgirl's solvent exchange method.

So with your ounce of ABV, I'd probably use 1-2 oz of simple syrup. Then put it in a bottle with a dropper and use 1-2 droppers for a dose.

Out of curiosity, how tasty is the infused honey you have now? The alcohol tinctures I've made, have been pretty harsh. So this really intrigues me.

 

[herbgirl]

^^yeah that^^



if you want to use raw honey and keep the goodies in it don't use boiling water. warm water should be fine to make that simple syrup since the honey is already liquid - no need to dissolve sugar crystals. you could also use any range of sweeteners such as agave nectar, turbinado sugar, evaporated cane juice, glycerin, corn syrup etc.

technically it will be an herbal syrup suspension - half water half honey as a base with the actives suspended in it because i do not believe they are honey soluble.

 

[luchiano]

I was wondering if you can just take the abv powder or fresh herb powder and put into a glass with some raw honey, mix everything until the honey sticks to the herb, then pour hot water into the herb honey mix and let sit until the cannabinoids seep out of the herb. Maybe 5-10 minutes while stirring occasionally to get as much cannabinoids to stick to the honey as possible. You are making a tea to drink and not a honey tincture. Something that may be more easily to gauge what affects you want and can use fresh ingredients for a nice tea to drink in the afternoon or before bed depending on ingredients mixed with the herb or the type of herb you use.

The reason why I think this may work is because if you powder your herb, once the heat causes the nutrients to seep out of the herb they will stick to the honey instead of being reabsorbed by the plant fibers and this sweet honey will be your carrier to help absorb the cannabinoids easily being that the honey is sweet and sweetness(carbohydrates) has been shown to enhance absorption of nutrients as well as some of the fructose will turn to fat and being that the cannabinoids will be attached to the fructose molecule they will in turn be attached to these fat molecules and will be used in the system as if you ate some fat with cannabis. The only thing I think that is important besides the herb being powder(to cause as much extraction as possible) is to add enough honey in the ratio to herb because if you don't have enough honey maybe enough cannabinoids won't stick to the honey and you will get less of an affect.

I'm dry now so can't try it.

 

[luchiano]

Mistake

 

[Tuck]

Last night I made a honey tincture from about an oz of abv.

it took about 8 oz of everclear to cover the avb in the mason jar. I let it sir for about an hour. I strained and began evaporating using a double boiler.

I decided to skip making the simple syrup and instead added 2 oz of honey and an oz of water.

I let the double boiler go for about 3 hours and it reduced down to about 5 oz of tincture. I did not account for water left over from the everclear which was only 160 proof, I added 1 more oz of honey to make it about a 1:1 honey to water ratio.

I let the jar sit open overnight with a coffee filter over the opening to let any more alcohol evaporate off.

I did sample some this morning. I took 3ml and it's not as harsh as swamp water but the taste is not the greatest. I figured 3ml is about equivalent to .5 grams of abv.

I was hoping for a better taste. in hindsight, I should have used less abv and made a smaller batch. I have no idea what the shelf life is for this.

I think I will mostly use this in hot tea in the future. Although I will probably experiment with holding some tincture under my tongue to se if it will kick in faster.

 

[Lo]

I'm interested in how the honey works. Sorry the taste wasn't good.

I will say the glycerin tincture has a very nice, albeit very sweet taste....MUCH better than the swamp water taste that is for sure. I may have to try do some honey soon.

 

[Tuck]

If I were to do it again, I'd evaporate down the alcohol tincture more before adding the honey. I'd also probably not add excess water.

herbgirl, do you think I'd have any success boiling some of this water off?

I'm wondering if I can salvage the taste by bringing it to a boil and then set it to low and let it thicken up. Then add another ounce of honey and maybe a tablespoon of lemon juice to try to make it taste better.

I read about the Neil Young's honey slides here:

http://thrasherswheat.org/rns/honeyslides.htm

It looks like he's doing what luchiano was talking about. He's heating the bud up in a skillet (decarboxlyzing the bud) and then adding the honey and just eating the honey and the bud. He doesn't strain it.

You could probably do a no smell firecracker like this. Warm up your honey in the microwave/on the stove. get a spoonful of abv and mix it in the honey and just eat it that way.

 

[herbgirl]

tuck, you could try but be careful not to boil it. i would recommend a double boiler for heat control and keep it low, sugars very burn easily.

honey also has some water in it too, so really you could technically drive all that water off with gentle heat. I assume the final product would be very thick, you'd probably need a spoon to dose, but that may be what you are after

 

[YourPalHal]

You're all awesome! I'm still waiting for my ABV bag to fill up, but as soon as it does, I'm gonna try a couple of these methods.

With my honey, it was a lot like what I imagine glycerin tinctures to taste like. Very sweet, but with a very strong and pleasant cannabis flavor. It tasted like if you were to take the first hit of fresh bud out of your vape with a mouthful of honey. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but hey, I'm vaked.

Thanks for all of your responses!

Peace, and happy vaping!

 

[mrdrip]

mm honey on morning toast! i'd be so down to make some honey but as luchiano was saying is this possible do you rly need everclear or some form of alcohol to make it? if so it would make it a hell of alot easier and same a fair bit of cash

 

[medme]

honey doesn't spoil,,, so what would the shelf life be?

and why add the water with the honey? so it doesn't boil?

 

[Tuck]

I was thinking that working with a syrup would be easier than working with the honey. In hindsight, I would not use the water again. I'd probably use a gentler heat with the honey as well.

I have no idea about the shelf life, but I'm keeping mine in the fridge, just to be safe. I have noticed that the good stuff floats to the top, so I always stir it up, before getting a spoonful. My dosage is such that 1 Tbs is about .5g of abv.

 

[herbgirl]

medme, you are correct on the honey, but once you add water and other contaminants to it i would think shelf life drops to maybe six months. I make an elderberry syrup that ends up being 25% honey 75% water (herbal decoction, actually) and it will keep at least that long in the fridge.

in general herbalism water is added to tinctures for a few reasons, strength regulation, solubility and as a filler. you would probably be fine tincturing with just honey, however if you do not have precise low heat control, the water may add more of a safety margin so the liquid does not burn.

I actually have a jar each of honey - no water - with lavender flowers and honey with chamomile flowers steeping now at room temperature - i have no idea what the final result will be, but i am hoping for a heavily aromatic medicinal honey. maybe some of the principals will apply here, and I'll learn something.

tuck, a simple syrup made with cane sugar or evaporated cane juice will be much easier than working with the honey as it is fairly thin. agave nectar may also fit that bill, but not sure whether it has the same solvent ability.

 

[medme]

thanks herbgirl i think i know what i'm going to try,,,
i've been asking questions everywhere and i sure like all the help i've been getting,,
when i get my tincture done i'll be sure and tell everyone how it works..

 

[YourPalHal]

Sounds good, medme.

Hey herbgirl, do you have a youtube channel? If not you should definitely consider it. You seem to be the go-to girl for edibles on this site. I'd love to see how you make different concoctions!

 

[herbgirl]

Hal, i've considered it, i also had a blog, but never seem to be able to keep up with stuff like that. Too many other things going on. Maybe in the future. Not really sure about the risks involved either. should i even worry about it?

Focusing on building a new business with my husband right now so it may be a while before i make anything again, but when i do y'all will be the second to know!

 

[Nuphile]

agave nectar may also fit that bill, but not sure whether it has the same solvent ability.

Honey has solvent capabilities? I was under the impression that alcohol had to be used in some part the process.

How do you make your enhanced honey?

 

[herbgirl]

Nuphile, honey is itself a very mild solvent just because it's 70 or 80 percent sugar in a aqueous solution. adding some PGA to that equation would of course increase the transfer of goodies just because of the nature of the plant we are dealing with. To make herbal honeys, you just steep the herbs in the honey for a period of time and strain to use. These honeys seem to carry more of the aromatic principals of the herbs.


Usually in herbal medicine one makes an oxymel which is a mixture of honey and vinegar. the vinegar draws out actives while the honey provides demulcent and emollient properties and a bit of nutrition. Kinda the same principal of adding PGA to the honey to increase extraction.

Herbal honeys can also be made by mixing an already prepared herbal PGA tincture, Glycerine tincture (glycerite), herbal vinegar, herbal powder (to create pills) or essential oils with some honey. This not only increases palatability, but also has all the other benefits of the honey, being demulcent, emollient and hygroscopic.

I noted earlier that i had a chamomile and a lavender honey steeping now, but i mixed them up, I actually have a lemon balm honey and a lavender honey going right now. the chamomile and peppermint are glycerites.

Another disclaimer!!!!! herbs and essential oils are powerful medicines especially when you start concentrating them. BE CAREFUL!!!!

 

[weedemon]

Hey herbgirl, i am confused.

PGA. this is some sort of glycerin? where would i buy it? What is it typically used for? I throught glycerin was used for soap?

If i was going to make honey, i would be best to use a double boiler method i would assume, and I also would rather not use any extra water either. (shelf life is important to me)

thanks for the info

i am assuming that if it is not cannabis honey (varietal honey collected only from cannabis flowers)

you just blew my mind! haha never though of that before I would love to try that! wonder what the aroma of the honey would be?

 

[YourPalHal]

weedemon-

PGA= Pure Grain Alcohol

Glycerin works too, just not quite as well.