Dealing with addiction

[biohacker]

I'll make it clearer for you.... some people are addicted to the act of vaping, and using vaporizers more than the actual drug. Thanks for your opinion, even though I won't accept it, and completely disagree with out. It's all good, everyone has their own opinion. I give up, I guess I have to accept never touching a vaporizer again.

 

[biohacker]

lunacy

That's not very nice man. There is even a thread on it, so again - please don't judge.

 

[RUDE BOY]

I'll make it clearer for you.... some people are addicted to the act of vaping, and using vaporizers more than the actual drug.

I agree, I know I never owned more then 2-3 pipes when I smoked but I now have a few dozen vaporizers on hand. But I call my vape obsession a hobby. It's Not insanity as an old fart needs a hobby.

 

[biohacker]

Totally agree, too many vapes and too much time on the hands CAN (not WILL) be a recipe of problems with time. There is a reason I sold my Herbie and Nano! I've had to restructure my relationship with this hobby, and start simply using the vapes as tools, without the obsession.

 

[canj00digit?]

...you don't know my storey or history.

Some people just can't accept other experiences, if they differ from their own.

My perception is that of certain members thinking they are "experts" and know better than my direct experiences.

Don't judge.

...please don't judge.

Yet...

Furthermore, there are many that also think they have medicinal needs, when instead it's just an excuse/justification to get high, or are just trying to avoid withdrawal. IMHO, this forum is full of addicts in denial.

Edit: What I said previously conveyed the wrong tone.
IMHO, bio, your last quote doesn't live up to the standard that you ask from the rest of us towards you.

 

[elvenflow]

My health has improved so significantly since I started using cannabis its hard for me to remember that there are downsides, one is
http://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...ng_diseases/hypersensitivity_pneumonitis.html
Which Gypsy Dave Mills describes so accurately in his bio:
http://www.gypmillssculptures.com/autobiography.php

 

[herbivore21]

Yup, we need to remember that the context of problematic drug-taking is extremely important in finding a solution. Many times, a problematic relationship with a drug or multiple drugs may not be due to the drug itself. Sometimes it is the reason we are using the drug which makes it a problem.

Ignore the rehab industry who especially in the US are about as unrelated to modern psychiatric literature as can be in many cases. Ignore the 12 step programs because the 5% success rate of such programs is likely very similar to the percentage of people who when quitting would manage to abstain long term by chance without any specific intervention.

Please guys, if you think you have a problem with a substance, see a psychologist or psychiatrist who is a specialist and preferably published researcher in neuropsychopharmacology, addiction or some related field. Sadly, because of the taboo surrounding drugs; it is nigh impossible to get good, scientifically guided help even from some qualified practitioners!

 

[Snappo]

I tend to agree that our fascination with vaporizers in all of their ever-evolving glory can exacerbate the use of the good herb, if not for simply the continuing experimentation with these fascinating devices that may perpetuate the activity. We are kids with new toys, and our enthusiasm for play keeps us filling-her-up at the gas station, as it were. True ...the nuances in each of the endless variety of herb can be so much more discernible, and that is both interesting and beneficial to one's personal & collective database. Now, would I say that all the above conjecture adds up to an addictive behavior? Yes, if one is predisposed, as such. No, not necessarily. Maybe, a fine line may exist for some that may push one to one side or the other. There is no simple answer to this ever-widening question.

 

[elvenflow]

Lettuce addiction as a symptom of cancer-is it victims and minerals she craves, or Lactucarium? So many herbs consigned to the dust bin of history:


"Jim started investigating which nutrients and minerals were found in lettuce – and realised they were the same ones that your body can be deprived of when it is fighting cancer.’
Mrs Campbell, from Derby, added: ‘Not long afterwards, I discovered a small dimple on my breast – and my doctor confirmed I had breast cancer."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2021027/Breast-cancer-symptoms-Elsie-Campbell-diagnosed-develops-LETTUCE-addiction.html#ixzz3Kbcn2PVh

 

[Snappo]

Personally, I could take it or leave it, without any addictive crave whatsoever. I've gone days, weeks, months, years without so much as a hint of a crave. Then again, I've gone on binges - but they only last so long and then I'm over it - take it, or leave it for days, weeks months, years. That's not to say that I don't have other habitual shackles, but none with substances.

 

[elvenflow]

A consideration for individuals who feel that they are "addicted" to the act of vaporizing is that hyperorality may develop as a result of a wide variety of conditions. One, unfortunately, is early stage dementia. The same degeneration of the frontal lobes which can lead to folks drinking massive amounts of Dr. Pepper and smoking five packs of cigarettes a day can also lead to compulsively doing anything that involves the mouth-including vaping. Self medication with cannabis seems ot be common in the early stages of this disease, if family members who have suffered from it are any indication:
http://www.theaftd.org/understandingftd/disorders/bv-ftd
Another cause of hyperorality is Klüver–Bucy syndrome

 

[Scott A]

Just remember the adage "Once an addict always an addict" means you can't use the substance your addicted to safely ever again.

Just as someone who has been full on addicted to three different substances I would have to say I agree and disagree to a point. When It comes to alcohol I can still drink a few beers and not get back in to the way I used to be of throwing up blood at 9 am and having my first drink at 9:05 am. When it comes to xanax I have no want at all to even do 1 anymore but I used to take up to 8 a day recreationally . However, when it comes to molly I know the second I take anymore I will be back on a multiple week long binge of rolling my face off and partying non stop.

I guess what Im trying to say is its all up to the person and the drug they have been addicted to.

 

[Mr. Gweilo 420]

Too bad most will never know, until they cease use completely. I urge anyone to abstain for a period of one month, and see what happens. You may be surprised. There is also a difference between addiction to weed, and addiction to vaporizers. Vaping is SO much easier than combusting, so it's easy to overdo it. Not everyone only has a couple of vapes and uses a pinch. Some like to test different vapes and have VAS, and that can cause severe problems in of itself. Don't judge.

I used to think a lot like you @biohacker. I considered myself a cannabis addict some years back. I blamed cannabis for everything. Eventually I gave it away for a few years. After a while I found I was much the same anyway. I started drinking. I started smoking. Eventually I came to realize that was not what I wanted. I got back on the cannabis and am much happier for it. I try not to be too reliant on cannabis. I survive without when I travel. No problem. Am I an addict? Maybe but I dont care. In the end I figured out I was better off with cannabis in my life. I dont need it. I want it.

 

[Skyscraper]

I've also struggled with cannabis abuse, especially when in high school. I use cannabis everyday, but I go without until the evenings. When I was young toking was so social, we were always trying to blaze. I definitely compromised a lot of time of my life to just getting stoned. I got a B average in high school, been a B average in college too but college is hard, especially if you work a job and go to school full time. But I digress...

My relationship with cannabis has calmed down a lot, how I used to use it is not for me anymore. I used to pass up other opportunities to smoke weed, and fuck that. My perspective on the mindset has changed- I found myself in some situations where I was high and I'd rather not have been, and decided this wasn't an all the time thing.

 

[elvenflow]

I guess what Im trying to say is its all up to the person and the drug they have been addicted to.

When my nephew with bvFTD was being ineffectually cycled through rehab, I discovered that there is a sub group of folks who abuse Tagamet, of all things. And pet antibiotics (one of which is apparently worse than Datura)! That convinced me that no matter how much they ban, folks who want to find a way will find a way. The important thing is to discover the underlying biological basis of their drive to to achieve an altered state. Since pot does not make me "stoned" that I have noticed I don't even know what people get out of using it recreationally.

 

[biohacker]

No worries brother...absolutely no need! It's been 3 days since my 5 week abstinence period, and my relationship with vaping is exactly where I want it. I honestly think it was more of a case of VAS!! FUUUUCK U VAS!!!

 

[BuzzDanklin]

You have a huge problem with other people throwing their experience and
generalizations are you, but you can throw them right back at us?

Too bad most will never know, until they cease use completely. I urge anyone to abstain for a period of one month, and see what happens. You may be surprised. There is also a difference between addiction to weed, and addiction to vaporizers. Vaping is SO much easier than combusting, so it's easy to overdo it. Not everyone only has a couple of vapes and uses a pinch. Some like to test different vapes and have VAS, and that can cause severe problems in of itself. Don't judge.

I vape all day everyday for nearly 10 years (except while in the marines), and I quit randomly for various things, and the most 'withdraw' I have ever gotten is a bit more restlessness at night and being less hungry for 2-3 days max. The last time I quit, I went on a vacation for nearly two weeks after smoking literally all day everyday for over a year straight without a break. I had an amazing vacation without a single thought about withdrawals or vaping. Its unfortunate that you have such terrible withdrawals.

 

[smokum]

@BuzzDanklin

I'm of the same type person as far as my own experiences have been when I would break for extended times previously.

It doesn't matter to me how or what someone (else) reacts, perceives, or confronts things in life.. I normally will share my own experience, then leave it at that (as I just did above). Too many 'different' people out there for me to try and label or understand (hell, doctors & scientists can't even do it without labeling based on past teachings and beliefs which many time than not are quite 'off')), so I just let them have their vent/rant/'belief' since it doesn't really affect me personally in real life

Edit: Thks for rewording.. I have 'LIKED' your post

 

[elvenflow]

I vape all day everyday for nearly 10 years (except while in the marines), and I quit randomly for various things, and the most 'withdraw' I have ever gotten is a bit more restlessness at night and being less hungry for 2-3 days max. The last time I quit, I went on a vacation for nearly two weeks after smoking literally all day everyday for over a year straight without a break. I had an amazing vacation without a single thought about withdrawals or vaping. Its unfortunate that you have such terrible withdrawals.

Another consideration with these horrible "withdrawls" may be that they are not withdrawal at all but something far more serious that needs a full medical work up.

Cannabis raises the seizure threshold. If you are self medicating with cannabis, and stop suddenly, and have an underlying seizure disorder, then your "withdrawal" is going to be terrible.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1164462-overview
Status epilepticus (SE) is a common, life-threatening neurologic disorder that is essentially an acute, prolonged epileptic crisis. SE can represent an exacerbation of a preexisting seizure disorder, the initial manifestation of a seizure disorder, or an insult other than a seizure disorder. In patients with known epilepsy, the most common cause is a change in medication. Most seizures terminate spontaneously.
Signs and symptoms
By clinical history, nonmotor simple partial status epilepticus involves subjective sensory disturbances, including the following:

• Focal or unilateral paresthesias or numbness
• Focal visual changes, usually characterized by flashing lights
• Focal visual obscuration or focal colorful hallucinations
• Olfactory or gustatory hallucinations
• Atypical rising abdominal sensations

http://www.epilepsycolorado.org/index.php?s=10784&item=5985
Also, the withdrawal effects of marijuana on seizure activity have not been well studied. A person could be at a higher risk for seizures as marijuana is metabolized or if someone stops using marijuana all together

Abnormal "withdrawls" from cannabis should be viewed with suspicion . Please seek medical attention promptly.

 

[elvenflow]

I'm just coming from the point of view of having worked at a detox for a couple of years and seeing enough anecdotal evidence to say once you get to the point of having withdrawal symptoms from the use of any substance you will always face withdrawal symptoms if you use That One substance again.

But I don't buy all the AA/Hazelden 12 step stuff either, although at least it's good for that 5%.

What have withdrawl symptoms got to do with addiction? Addiction and physical dependency are completely different states. I hate opiates, sometimes have to take them, become physically dependent on them and am never happier than when I am on the pot (pardon the pun)getting off them. I actually have a celebratory song about being able to s**t again.
I've withdrawn from opiates and opioids multiple times, but I have never once craved them or wanted to take them. Make me irritable, constipated and don't really do much for pain besides dull it a little.

 

[RUDE BOY]

Don't you have to go through the exact same withdrawals whether or not you call it a state of dependence or addiction though ?

I'm the same way with narcotics as you. I gotta spend time on 'em for medical reasons once in a blue moon and always still get dope sick when i stop taking them and never really ever want them or think of them when they're not needed. Not really the context of the conversation when that post was made though.

 

[elvenflow]

Nope. No craving for the drug whatsoever, just a lot of running to the bathroom, which, given my reaction to opiates, is a huge relief. Its all a matter of perception, as many studies have shown. People sent home from the hospital who go through withdrawal, not knowing what withdrawal is or that they should expect it, do not connect it to the drug they have just stopped, and think they have stomach flu. And their experience of withdrawal is markedly less severe than that of someone who knows they are supposed to be withdrawing from a drug. Nocebo works as well as placebo.

Could the same phenomena be occurring in cannabis, as the various expected symptoms of "cannabis withdrawal" are presented, could the severity of perceived withdrawal increase in users?

 

[RUDE BOY]

I understand the distinction you're making between dependence and addiction/compulsion, like i said I do the same as you describe when it come to narcotics, it's just I do know it ain't a stomach flu.

If I drink alcohol I will get cravings to drink until i lose control(could take time) because I am an alcoholic and have been through DTs, more than once unfortunately.

I still say both are physical addiction even though you may disagree with that. Different trains of thought and all ya know.

...

 

[elvenflow]

I call it the body adapting to having to make its own endogenous opioids again as I reach for the toilet paper..... L-Carnitine (over the counter supplement, please use only under physician's advice) can often help, there is even a patent on that now:
http://www.google.com/patents/EP0630648B1?cl=en

 

[RUDE BOY]

Sucks no matter what we call it, thats for sure. for me a necessary evil every few years it seems now so i gotta just do it when it's time .