Dealing with addiction

[biohacker]

If you enjoy sobriety better than vaping, why would you go back to vaping then?

I enjoy sobriety more than being drunk too, but the way you phrase that makes it sound like you are wondering why I would enjoy a beer or two as well, no?

It sounds like vaping may not be for you anymore.

No. It sounds like being an addict isn't for me anymore.

It's OK to move on.

Oh, thanks for the reassurance that's it's okay. I have moved on....to not being stoned 24/7, where it destroys the quality of my life and health. It doesn't mean I can't ever vape again, and enjoy it responsibly enough for my own reasons.

Did you need to pass a test for employment or was this a personal achievement that you wanted to have control over?

Mostly due to severely negative health affects, addiction, and yes personal achievement to have control over, instead of it controlling me.

mod note: This thread was created from the major derail of another thread, therefore some comments might seem out of place.

 

[RUDE BOY]

No. It sounds like being an addict isn't for me anymore.

Just remember the adage "Once an addict always an addict" means you can't use the substance your addicted to safely ever again.

 

[lwien]

Now that i've been clear of vaping for over a month, and test negative for THC on a piss test, when I start up vaping again, this will be a great way for me to ease into it and keep my tolerance super low.

If you truly believe that you became addicted, I strongly urge you to rethink what you just stated above.

Studies have shown that 12% of those that use cannabis will become addicted and this has absolutely nothing to do with keeping your tolerance low.

Adjusting ones tolerance only applies to the other 88% of us who are not addicted.

 

[biohacker]

Just remember the adage "Once an addict always an addict" means you can't use the substance your addicted to safely ever again.

If you truly believe that you became addicted, I strongly urge you to rethink what you just stated above.

Addicted, Dependent, habituated, whatever it is...it was an abusive relationship which I put a stop to. I will vape safely again, and keep my tolerance low, and simply enjoy it much like I do a fine beer here and there. Thanks for your support guys, back to the OP's topic. I can't wait to try it out, as even prolonged T-breaks can cause a surge in tolerance very quickly.

 

[ChippyMalone]

Just remember the adage "Once an addict always an addict" means you can't use the substance your addicted to safely ever again.

I absolutely 100% disagree with this "adage". It's part of the step based addiction recovery approach that in peer reviewed studies has about a 5% success rate.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/

 

[RUDE BOY]

I'm just coming from the point of view of having worked at a detox for a couple of years and seeing enough anecdotal evidence to say once you get to the point of having withdrawal symptoms from the use of any substance you will always face withdrawal symptoms if you use That One substance again.

But I don't buy all the AA/Hazelden 12 step stuff either, although at least it's good for that 5%.

 

[biohacker]

once you get to the point of having withdrawal symptoms from the use of any substance you will always face withdrawal symptoms if you use That One substance again.

No. If you ABuse That One substance again. BIG difference.

 

[RUDE BOY]

No Sorry BUT IF YOU USE that substance again period, it's just a matter of time before you have to face the withdrawal thing all over again, in my experience at least.

The big difference is that you seem to want things to just be the way you want 'em to be which isn't in line with the reality I know. But it's your life to do with what you will.

 

[lwien]

Gotta agree with Rude on this.

An addiction to a substance has to do with how our specific body chemistries react to different substances and it has nothing to do with the amount of that substance that you consume.

If I had one cigarette today, I'd be back up to 3 packs a day within a month and I quit 40 years ago.
If I had one line of coke, I'd be back up to snorting a gram a day and I quit that also 40 years ago.
If I have just one scoop of ice cream, I will being devouring a pint within a 4 to 5 days.

It's just the way it works.............But of course, denial is a key symptom of addiction and to deny that one can maintain the use of a substance that they were once addicted without the addictive behavior resurfacing is just part of the addiction mentality. This is the way that works as well.

I've been here for 70 years guys. I've not only witnessed my own addictions, but those of my family and friends as well, from drug additions to food addictions. Witnessed 100 of these and not one of them has deviated from what I stated above. Not one..............

Are you the one exception, biohacker? I guess you could be, but I wouldn't bet on it. Do report back though within the next few months, k?. Will be curious as to your take on this then.

 

[biohacker]

Will do, let's please get back to the topic at hand. Both of your experiences don't mean they reflect EVERYONE'S. Let's please agree to disagree, you don't know my storey or history. I look forward to moderating my usage, as much as you both hate to hear that.

 

[Beluga]

Guys let's not get hostile...

I think we need Dr. Sulak's 's.

 

[biohacker]

I couldn't feel more chill. Based on some of the previous opinions, I wouldn't be able to drink beer, coffee, vape, exercise, or apparently even have sex or wank ever again. It's like some of the guys I work with, just because someone has worked here longer, doesn't mean they know their job better. Some people just can't accept other experiences, if they differ from their own. It's the same storey in some other threads on this forum, and gets kind of boring.

I'll update this thread when I try this approach. Before your post, I was just going to vape completely randomly. Thanks again Beluga!

 

[CarolKing]

@biohacker I meant no disrespect to you. Only you know what works for you.

 

[biohacker]

Thank you! I wasn't referring to you though, this goes back to other threads.

So many haters out there. That hate anyone that do anything to make a step toward a better life.

 

[grokit]

Most addictions resolve themselves, with no relapse:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-you-cure-yourself-of-addiction/


There's also disagreement regarding whether addiction is a "disease" or not:

Some treatments for alcoholism and drug addiction assume that addiction is a disease:

• Twelve-step groups and centers promote guiding principles that include acknowledging a lack of control over one’s addiction and recognizing a higher power that enables one to quit. Total abstinence is the goal.
• Drugs prescribed by a physician can substitute for street drugs and prevent or reduce withdrawal symptoms as doses are tapered. The synthetic opiate buprenorphine is used in this way to treat heroin addicts.

Other approaches emphasize coping skills and in some instances reject the disease perspective:

• Motivational interviewing and cognitive behavioral therapy engage clients in exploring how they would like to change and in developing healthy ways to deal with stress and daily challenges. SMART Recovery self-help groups — an alternative to 12-step programs —aim for abstinence by using cognitive behavioral and educational approaches.
• Therapeutic communities, which are sometimes affiliated with 12-step programs, are drug-free settings where addicts live together and learn healthy approaches to life with the help of former addicts and therapists.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/addiction-paradox

 

[Beluga]

I'll update this thread when I try this approach. Before your post, I was just going to vape completely randomly. Thanks again Beluga!

Thank you! I believe it's important for everyone to share their views because there aren't many things that work for everyone. I'm trying this approach over the weekend to see what effect it has on someone with a lower tolerance like me who can get really baked off of a well-ground MFLB trench.

 

[lwien]

I do what @RUDE BOY suggested with first selecting the correct vaporizers — 1) vapman 2) enano, both vapes emphasis efficiency in the sense you get higher for the amount used which is very little.

Yup. A vaporizer with a very small bowl can typically keep your tolerance in check because it's easier to wait before loading up another bowl for another hit and you find out that you didn't want that extra hit anyway.

Another thing that is important to me is the strain I use regularly. Over years of a relationship with cannabis I have learned that you can burn-out on certain strains while others have what it takes to always get you high.

I find that you can build up a tolerance to one strain and switching strains kind of resets everything again. But the same thing can happen with that strain, so switching it up or making salads has always worked good for me.

But I just got this new strain and have yet had any desire to switch. So far..........it's that good.

 

[biohacker]

The other very interesting thing on this thread is all these perspectives on addiction. I for one feel that it is not possible to have an addictive history to a substance in which a person's life is severely disrupted from use of that demon substance and then somehow has the power to go back to a casual relationship that can be managed. From my experience this perspective is the pinnacle of denial which is part of being addicted.

I assume you are referring to me. The real denial are those here that think that they are not addicted, yet cannot simply stop for a few weeks. Furthermore, there are many that also think they have medicinal needs, when instead it's just an excuse/justification to get high, or are just trying to avoid withdrawal. IMHO, this forum is full of addicts in denial. Not everyone, obviously, there are definitely those with legit medical needs too. I swear it's like some people are jealous/envious of people that are trying to improve themselves. Where is the support? I've had many addictions in the past, that i've been able to break and moderate, I suppose i'm just that much stronger mentally when I really want to be? I know alot of smoker's that were 2pack/day that can still enjoy a smoke here and there with a drink, and don't fall back into the trap. Why can't people accept this? Why do people think they know everything and can't accept other's experiences?

 

[lwien]

I know alot of smoker's that were 2pack/day that can still enjoy a smoke here and there with a drink, and don't fall back into the trap.

You know a LOT of smokers that were 2 pack a day smokers that can successfully moderate down to only having a smoke here and there?

While there are exceptions to every rule, I find that statement pretty darn amazing.

And as far as your question of, "Where is the support?" what you are failing to realize is that those that are questioning your stance on this, including me, ARE giving you support just by our statements in regards to addiction.

In regards to your statement that "this forum is full of addicts in denial", I would imagine that the 12% addiction rate would apply here as well, but it does bring up an interesting question. Does that percentage also apply to those that only vaporize? Hmmmm........

 

[biohacker]

Ofcourse you do, and whether they are exceptions to your and anyone else rules is irrelevant. My sister in law is the closest in my family to have quit her lifelong addiction to smokes, and yes still smokes a few here and there ever since she had a child. I work in a heavily dominant male population industry, and have many close friends that are in the same boat. I guess we'll just agree that i'm the exception as well. My will/mind power can do anything I want it to do.

I do not perceive your statements as support, nor the few others that i've experienced in other threads and have already proved them wrong, I just choose not to post in them anymore. My perception is that of certain members thinking they are "experts" and know better than my direct experiences.

I look forward to adopting the OP's techniques in the future, when I feel like it, just like I was able to walk away from vaping cold turkey, and suffer through the withdrawal. You said yourself that you get withdrawals as well in the past, you should know exactly what i'm talking about, since you can moderate your usage just fine. It must suck to never be able to eat ice cream again....? And how long did you say that the honeymoon period would last again?

Let's just agree that I wasn't "addicted" then (whatever that really means) and I was habituated. This article may help you understand. We all have choices. And some people have much weaker wills than others. Look how fucking obese society has become. It's really pathetic, and has just passed war as the leading drain on the economy.

http://www.thecleanslate.org/can-an-addict-ever-become-a-moderate-user/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-addiction/201103/abstinence-is-not-the-only-option

http://www.smartrecovery.org/resour...itional_Articles/abstinence_vs_moderation.htm

I could fill pages with articles proving your stance wrong. But i'm sure you could too, so please stop thinking that your opinion is the only one that is right.

 

[lwien]

My will/mind power can do anything I want it to do.

I look forward to adopting the OP's techniques in the future, when I feel like it.....

"I can quit anytime I want to. I just don't want to right now. "

"My will power and mind can do anything I want it to do."

Those two statements are right out of an addicts playbook.

Ok, not going to antagonize you any more. Over...........and out.

 

[biohacker]

Agreed to disagree, I stopped the binge when *I* was ready. Please no more posts about this from anyone, thread has been derailed enough, and not fair to the OP. Let's continue to discuss how addicts can get higher, and lower tolerance to get higher on less. If it weren't for addiction (whether rec or medicinal), we wouldn't even be having threads like this.

 

[RUDE BOY]

Let's just agree that I wasn't "addicted" then (whatever that really means) and I was habituated.

I can buy that !

I do believe a whole lot of people do actually confuse the difference between a simple Habit of lifestyle with true addiction. I have known more then one person who were problem drinkers (when they drink they get stupid and have problems) who identify as alcoholics but really never were truly physically addicted.
They could most likely drink once in a while and not get the overwhelming cravings for alcohol afterwards since they really were not physically addicted to start with. There is a huge difference between losing a few hours sleep a night for a week or two and needing to be strapped down to a bed for 2 days with DTs.

I'm one of those who do believe some people are just weak minded and lack self control then overdo things and are now called "addicts", when they really aren't. I do also believe you can have the strength and presence of mind to quit on your own without a 'program' or 'treatment'. Some people are actually "Islands" and can do what they need to improve their lives without having someone tellin' 'em how to or taking by the hand and leading 'em.

 

[biohacker]

I can assure you I was phyically dependent, and it was far beyond losing a few hours of sleep here and there. More like complete fucking torture, and my blood labs reflect this - massive hit to immune system, white blood cells, hemoglobin (probably from the damage to lungs). Now that it's been 5 weeks, I just got a full blood panel again so am keeping my fingers crossed that there are no flags again. I still can't sleep past 3am, and this is continual withdrawal. Don't believe me? PM me for the rehab forum for thousands of others going through the some bullshit. I did go cold turkey though, and yeah the night sweats are nearly completely gone. I'm not dying like many thought I was in the Ammonia thread.

 

[biohacker]

Too bad most will never know, until they cease use completely. I urge anyone to abstain for a period of one month, and see what happens. You may be surprised. There is also a difference between addiction to weed, and addiction to vaporizers. Vaping is SO much easier than combusting, so it's easy to overdo it. Not everyone only has a couple of vapes and uses a pinch. Some like to test different vapes and have VAS, and that can cause severe problems in of itself. Don't judge.