The closest thing to what the OP asked for is @Hippie Dickie's Bud Toaster—except, of course, you can't buy one yet.
DC Log vape with temp control?
- Thread starter DonDizzurp
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215z said:
well, i'm not sure about airflow temp control 'cause i haven't messed around with that, and anyway, i have found airflow temp = heater element temp (at least in my design), so airflow temp control is not at all necessary for me. However, heater temp control takes the vaporization experience to a new level.
Vaporizing is now a very consistent and reliable experience, and a welcome ceremony in my daily life ... akin to a tea ceremony, or my coffee ritual. The cube neither adds nor subtracts from the herb experience ... it simply delivers all that is there. Gotta' love the glass.
And it has to be LiFePO4 cells (DC) to deliver high current at a reasonable price.
215z
Well-Known Member
@Hippie Dickie with your PID control of heating element temperature, can users vary their draw and get consistent vapor? That is a praise sung of the Evo and Vriptech Heatwand.
If so, that is a very big deal. Do you think log vape owners can mod their rigs with a PID controller, the same way espresso machine owners do? I do not know how users will attach a thermocouple to their heating element, but if they could it would make for a easy $50 upgrade, no?
Thank you all for your comments. Thank you OP for asking such a good question ripe for discussion.
If so, that is a very big deal. Do you think log vape owners can mod their rigs with a PID controller, the same way espresso machine owners do? I do not know how users will attach a thermocouple to their heating element, but if they could it would make for a easy $50 upgrade, no?
Thank you all for your comments. Thank you OP for asking such a good question ripe for discussion.
Absolutely, in that the temperature does not drop regardless of the air speed/flow ... however, more air means thinner vapor, so i draw just fast enough to keep the draw tube milky, but there is a lot of variation in draw rate that can do this.
that's how i started down this path.
paytonpenn
Level 30 Nature/Healer
That is an issue for the Versa, the airflow is so open you have to slow down or boost to produce thicker vapor.
DonDizzurp
ELEVATED
Well I wanted to avoid having to buy and use a separate device to control heat. I'd also prefer knowing what temp I'm vaping at rather than just having a dial from 1-10 (unless each number has a set temp). I think the e-nano fits the bill but I'd prefer DC. It's just easier/safer to use and work with for me. Any specific reason why they chose AC?
That bud toaster looks pretty cool. Can't wait for reviewers to get their hands on one. That picture seems to show it as an induction vaporizer or am I wrong?
That bud toaster looks pretty cool. Can't wait for reviewers to get their hands on one. That picture seems to show it as an induction vaporizer or am I wrong?
IDK ...seems to me a temp-read control dial is something that can be incorporated into a log vape; it may necessitate a body design modification, and most likely extra cost, but would definitely be a new stage in the evolution of log & all vapes!
DonDizzurp
ELEVATED
Imagine something the e-nano size with a tiny screen to display temp with up-down buttons. Oh man I'd buy that so fast.. but as you said if they try adding a temp control (and especially a digital one) they'd have to redesign the unit, most likely making it bigger.
Being as small as they are to begin with, I think logs could wear the little bit of extra size quite well, with no aesthetic & ergonomic objection from the proud owner. I think it would be Very Cool!
DonDizzurp said:
not induction, convection, using a nichrome wire heater coil:
Hmmm ...barely adds any dimension in size internally (insulated wires only), and would only require a body mod to accommodate the temp readout assembly. It could really be made to look great!not induction, convection, using a nichrome wire heater coil:
DonDizzurp
ELEVATED
Look at his sig. I think that's what the final product will look like. It's not ugly by any means but I do prefer the e-nano look a bit better.
I think design choices are endless, thinking beyond the narrow spectrum of current vape designs. Some will favor the curvacious, visually textured, and colored; others will relate better to different characteristics. The industry is still in it's infancy, and many here on FC are the real pioneers laying the pathway to better and better.
Egzoset
Banned
Salutations Snappo,
All right Snappo, i see some room for that answer so i'll try my best...
Hummm... I didn't appreciate the humour touch over rocket science at 1st, i don't know what to think of it actually but that's going to be better left aside if you ask me.
My own position is that it's similar to cooking in my kitchen. Available power must be absorbed as quick as possible while temperature shall reflect what's going on, more or less on average because it's not only THC that gets vaporized but a cannabic compound instead. Still, unlike people who don't like discussions over future USB/BlueTooth/WiFi features i'm ready to embrace those. Because i'm convinced bio-feedback can help, at least persons like me, most definitely. Just take the added eye-contact in my modded VG pipe as an exampe... At first i had to quit using it after only a few attempts, while today it's my favourite option. As a matter of fact i was thinking i should even try to insert a thermocouple into the "pinhole" i've recently added last week... That way i'd be able to superpose a temperature curve over some videos, etc. Whatever. The sky is the limit! In any case such additional expertise resources would allow me to grasp a better understanding of the situation as i never really contemplate the prospect of no longer climbing the learning curve... Because that's where the fun is i guess.
So, i've often argued that precision temperature expressed in absolute numbers ain't necessary in our favourite application, as long as the sweet spot can be replicated reliably i can't care less for a digital display - but the absence of that later feature doesn't imply i'd wish to give up spreadsheet data collection on a tablet or computer!
Would i be able to stand/appreciate a "Rheostatic" (power) type of control in my vaporizer?
Hell, absolutely, as with a pipe i don't even get that sort of control neither and yet i can hardly imagine a more appropriate tool for me than the power of fire! Though a pipe with some BT4 thermocouple attached would obviously make my day, i must admit.
On another hand temperature control is useful if not necessary when there's teflon right inside the heat-exchanger, both as a structural AND sealing item, which is the HerbalAire's case: that's a safe way to benefit from the material's exceptional properties while avoiding use beyond the proper operating-temperature range. Which leads me to mention the Curie-effect available via Induction Heating: forget about thermostats, just trust the alloy itself for thermostatic heat regulation!
...
Meaning the Lavae-No (fresh from my untamed imagination!) could actually have high-temp synthetics inside as well if convenient and never even get close to combustion/melting nonetheless. E.G. systematic peace of mind molded in a tiny metal sheet or possibly a screen worth only a few dollars at most... Beyond that the remaining features could be offered as option. Get a Lavae-No Super+ DeLuxe for absolute temperature readings providing laboratory accuracy! Etc...
Euh...
What was the question again?...
As yes, thoughts over sweet spots vs dials.
Well, i'd wish all decent manufacturers to use precision in their choice of words describing the products they wish to offer. This alone would feel like an improvement!...
Not to mention the recent false alerts over coils being possibly mistaken for Induction Heaters don't help much neither. But that's life i suppose!
All right Snappo, i see some room for that answer so i'll try my best...
Hummm... I didn't appreciate the humour touch over rocket science at 1st, i don't know what to think of it actually but that's going to be better left aside if you ask me.
My own position is that it's similar to cooking in my kitchen. Available power must be absorbed as quick as possible while temperature shall reflect what's going on, more or less on average because it's not only THC that gets vaporized but a cannabic compound instead. Still, unlike people who don't like discussions over future USB/BlueTooth/WiFi features i'm ready to embrace those. Because i'm convinced bio-feedback can help, at least persons like me, most definitely. Just take the added eye-contact in my modded VG pipe as an exampe... At first i had to quit using it after only a few attempts, while today it's my favourite option. As a matter of fact i was thinking i should even try to insert a thermocouple into the "pinhole" i've recently added last week... That way i'd be able to superpose a temperature curve over some videos, etc. Whatever. The sky is the limit! In any case such additional expertise resources would allow me to grasp a better understanding of the situation as i never really contemplate the prospect of no longer climbing the learning curve... Because that's where the fun is i guess.
So, i've often argued that precision temperature expressed in absolute numbers ain't necessary in our favourite application, as long as the sweet spot can be replicated reliably i can't care less for a digital display - but the absence of that later feature doesn't imply i'd wish to give up spreadsheet data collection on a tablet or computer!
Would i be able to stand/appreciate a "Rheostatic" (power) type of control in my vaporizer?
Hell, absolutely, as with a pipe i don't even get that sort of control neither and yet i can hardly imagine a more appropriate tool for me than the power of fire! Though a pipe with some BT4 thermocouple attached would obviously make my day, i must admit.
On another hand temperature control is useful if not necessary when there's teflon right inside the heat-exchanger, both as a structural AND sealing item, which is the HerbalAire's case: that's a safe way to benefit from the material's exceptional properties while avoiding use beyond the proper operating-temperature range. Which leads me to mention the Curie-effect available via Induction Heating: forget about thermostats, just trust the alloy itself for thermostatic heat regulation!
...
Meaning the Lavae-No (fresh from my untamed imagination!) could actually have high-temp synthetics inside as well if convenient and never even get close to combustion/melting nonetheless. E.G. systematic peace of mind molded in a tiny metal sheet or possibly a screen worth only a few dollars at most... Beyond that the remaining features could be offered as option. Get a Lavae-No Super+ DeLuxe for absolute temperature readings providing laboratory accuracy! Etc...
Euh...
What was the question again?...
As yes, thoughts over sweet spots vs dials.
Well, i'd wish all decent manufacturers to use precision in their choice of words describing the products they wish to offer. This alone would feel like an improvement!...
Not to mention the recent false alerts over coils being possibly mistaken for Induction Heaters don't help much neither. But that's life i suppose!
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@Egzoset - great informative reply - thank you! BTW: My reference to the common phrase regarding "rocket science" merely expressed that my own general approach to log vape use be kept simple and easy, and in no way did it address your prior post on the subject - not a "humorous touch" or anything personal whatsoever. Again, thanks for being such a great and knowledgeable contributor to FC!Salutations Snappo,
All right Snappo, i see some room for that answer so i'll try my best...
Hummm... I didn't appreciate the humour touch over rocket science at 1st, i don't know what to think of it actually but that's going to be better left aside if you ask me.
My own position is that it's similar to cooking in my kitchen. Available power must be absorbed as quick as possible while temperature shall reflect what's going on, more or less on average because it's not only THC that gets vaporized but a cannabic compound instead. Still, unlike people who don't like discussions over future USB/BlueTooth/WiFi features i'm ready to embrace those. Because i'm convinced bio-feedback can help, at least persons like me, most definitely. Just take the added eye-contact in my modded VG pipe as an exampe... At first i had to quit using it after only a few attempts, while today it's my favourite option. As a matter of fact i was thinking i should even try to insert a thermocouple into the "pinhole" i've recently added last week... That way i'd be able to superpose a temperature curve over some videos, etc. Whatever. The sky is the limit! In any case such additional expertise resources would allow me to grasp a better understanding of the situation as i never really contemplate the prospect of no longer climbing the learning curve... Because that's where the fun is i guess.
So, i've often argued that precision temperature expressed in absolute numbers ain't necessary in our favourite application, as long as the sweet spot can be replicated reliably i can't care less for a digital display - but the absence of that later feature doesn't imply i'd wish to give up spreadsheet data collection on a tablet or computer!
Would i be able to stand/appreciate a "Rheostatic" (power) type of control in my vaporizer?
Hell, absolutely, as with a pipe i don't even get that sort of control neither and yet i can hardly imagine a more appropriate tool for me than the power of fire! Though a pipe with some BT4 thermocouple attached would obviously make my day, i must admit.
On another hand temperature control is useful if not necessary when there's teflon right inside the heat-exchanger, both as a structural AND sealing item, which is the HerbalAire's case: that's a safe way to benefit from the material's exceptional properties while avoiding use beyond the proper operating-temperature range. Which leads me to mention the Curie-effect available via Induction Heating: forget about thermostats, just trust the alloy itself for thermostatic heat regulation!
...
Meaning the Lavae-No (fresh from my untamed imagination!) could actually have high-temp synthetics inside as well if convenient and never even get close to combustion/melting nonetheless. E.G. systematic peace of mind molded in a tiny metal sheet or possibly a screen worth only a few dollars at most... Beyond that the remaining features could be offered as option. Get a Lavae-No Super+ DeLuxe for absolute temperature readings providing laboratory accuracy! Etc...
Euh...
What was the question again?...
As yes, thoughts over sweet spots vs dials.
Well, i'd wish all decent manufacturers to use precision in their choice of words describing the products they wish to offer. This alone would feel like an improvement!...
Not to mention the recent false alerts over coils being possibly mistaken for Induction Heaters don't help much neither. But that's life i suppose!
Egzoset
Banned
Salutations Snappo,
My avatar shows a rocket with me inside, on our way to ride the learning curve. So it's hardly appropriate to associate a person like me with credentials as those used here; yet a nice thing for me to do in those cases would be to say that i thank you.
So, what would you like to change/impove?
My avatar shows a rocket with me inside, on our way to ride the learning curve. So it's hardly appropriate to associate a person like me with credentials as those used here; yet a nice thing for me to do in those cases would be to say that i thank you.
So, what would you like to change/impove?
stickstones
Vapor concierge
How would DC vs AC help you determine the temp?
Like Captain Kirk would say, "Aim for that star to the right, Mr. Sulu - Engage!Salutations Snappo,
My avatar shows a rocket with me inside, on our way to ride the learning curve. So it's hardly appropriate to associate a person like me with credentials as those used here; yet a nice thing for me to do in those cases would be to say that i thank you.
So, what would you like to change/impove?
"Change/improve?" EVERYTHING!
RUDE BOY
Space is the Place
It doesn't make a bit of difference. One of My Underdog power supplies is AC and works exactly the same as the DC one I have. Higher or lower Voltage makes a difference, doesn't matter if it's AC or DC.
z9
Well-Known Member
I believe they just want the unit to run off of a DC power source for safety and versatility.
Versatility aside, I'll never understand why people have a problem with AC power in a log. 12v DC power is obviously much safer than anything powered by an ungrounded AC source, I'm not arguing that. There are much more expensive vaporizers that run off of AC power and aren't truly grounded when disassembled and nobody seems to have a problem with them. There just seems to be a double standard with some people and the Nano... that's all.
An inline potentiometer similar to what the E-Nano has would not be difficult to incorporate into a DC-powered vape if the power source had a 14(ish) Volt output. It becomes a little more difficult and bulky when you need to adjust the input voltage both above and below the output voltage. This is why the UD VVPS has an input of 14V instead of 12V, its just cheaper and easier to take the voltage one way. Incorporating a VVPS and dial (no display) into the base of a log might take up a lot of space and prove somewhat difficult but its certainly doable, I don't know how cost-effective it would be.
Imagine a Toasty Top sitting atop what is essentially a matching wood VK... now that my friends would be a gorgeous setup
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Egzoset
Banned
Salutations DonDizzurp,
Hummm... Good find, that's going to be a memorable riddle!
Compatibility with 12 Volts supplies (as found in cars) is a nice feature of D.C. power though it still doesn't offer to get rid of the electric cable. Low-voltage may sound attractive in terms of risks but it comes at a cost should one attempt to control power resistively, unless perhaps it would be an option to switch between multiple heater elements instead, since anyway those behave as power resistors themselves...
Actually many "Log" vapes are based on a power resistor covered with some ceramic glaze, you just might need a log vaporizer with many that are controlled individually by a simple power switch. But this would result in having to pre-heat between setting changes so i suppose in the end this would call for 1 custom power resistor with center-taps. Personally i don't see this happen but i wouldn't exclude that scenario as an alternative solution; it's just unlikely i guess, because if it had been appealing to manufacturers before then i imagine they'd have done exactly this already and hence there would be no related discussion(s) to begin with...
Hummm... Good find, that's going to be a memorable riddle!
Compatibility with 12 Volts supplies (as found in cars) is a nice feature of D.C. power though it still doesn't offer to get rid of the electric cable. Low-voltage may sound attractive in terms of risks but it comes at a cost should one attempt to control power resistively, unless perhaps it would be an option to switch between multiple heater elements instead, since anyway those behave as power resistors themselves...
Actually many "Log" vapes are based on a power resistor covered with some ceramic glaze, you just might need a log vaporizer with many that are controlled individually by a simple power switch. But this would result in having to pre-heat between setting changes so i suppose in the end this would call for 1 custom power resistor with center-taps. Personally i don't see this happen but i wouldn't exclude that scenario as an alternative solution; it's just unlikely i guess, because if it had been appealing to manufacturers before then i imagine they'd have done exactly this already and hence there would be no related discussion(s) to begin with...
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