Dabbin: Vapor or smoke?

[NineDelta]

Greetings,
I always read in forums to refer to consume of hash oil with a TI nail or TI pad with the term "vaporization".

I've consumed hash oil with differents vaporizers, like VRIP, Herborizer, eclipse vape, omicron, and is very different to use a dome or a curve. With the last one, I smoke oil, a main part of oil is burned, the main taste is smoke, combustion, but a little percent of taste may be vapor.
Vaporizing oil with Vrip or Herborizer is 100% vapor. The taste with a vaporizer is too different.

I have to say too, in my view, use a TI nail or TI pad is more efficient that use a vaporizer.

I made a video where we can see vaporization of oil with an Eclipse Vape and "vaporization" of oil with a TI nail.

In video we can see the density and colour of cloud is different, we can see the oil is evaporated slowly in eclipse and the oil in a TI nail is dissapear quickly.

My questions to debate: Why it use the term vaporizing to refer to use the ti pad or ti nail? Using a TI nail, do you think is vapor or smoke?




PS: I've searched in forum but I haven't found a similar title thread, forum is huge, if there is any thread speaking about it, moderator can combine this thread.

 

[SD_haze]

If the TI Nail is glowing red/white hot, then its definitely smoke.

There is a heating range where its much more of a vaporization effect, after the TI Nail has cooled to where it isn't glowing at all.

Using a laser thermometer you can find the range, and then with practice, you can have an idea around how long it takes to cool off after getting it visibly red.

 

[High Sigh]

Im pretty sure that doesnt matter. If its pure oil its only gonna get to that boiling point, and then be vapor. Boiling includes vaporization, not burning. (unless you have impurities or plant matter in yo shit!)

 

[stroh]

you can definitely burn oil, but youd need to dab a red hot Ti immediately, or use a direct flame. There is a slight learning curve to finding the optimal temp to dab Ti, but its pretty easy to get the hang of

 

[luchiano]

I had a debate on this subject with someone on here and you can see the discussion here:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/do-you-still-combust.4163/page-3

 

[stroh]

I had a debate on this subject with someone on here and you can see the discussion here:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/do-you-still-combust.4163/page-3

sorry but your arguments have little merit outside of basic facts that you pulled from the internet, it definitely sounds as if you have extremely little experience with concentrates. You can definitely burn oil, but using hot Ti does not equate to automatic combustion, you can taste the difference between vapor and smoke, its pretty easy to tell after a few uses when the skillet is too hot, and when it is just right. do you dab at least semi-regularly? knowledge < experience.

 

[luchiano]

I don't dab anymore but the reason I've come to this conclusion is because when I first learned about dabbing from Hashmasta-kut on OG around 2002-2003, I thought it would be something I would like but at that time I started getting into my health thing and thought hash was the best way to cut down on messing with my health, which it is but when done a certain way, and I was also learning about vaporizing temperatures and essential oils and learned that essential oils can cause problems if they are over heated from their boiling points and when I noticed how putting hash/high quality concentrates on a charcoal puck or vaporizing it it wouldn't burn as fast as it would with a metal pad I realized that what you are doing is over heating these oils and that is why they are being released so fast. Remember hash/concentrates is a mixture of lower and higher temperature oils and if they are all being released at once you are using a very high temperature which isn't good when using oils of ANY KIND. I then wondered why they left no residue as I thought that was a sign of burning but I was reading something that showed using wax candles with essential oils can be problematic for your health as they are heated too high and I did noticed a little irritation when I smelled scented candles or incense that were heated, although it wasn't a big problem but then I noticed that hash when heated can be irritating to the lungs when it is highly aromatic and when it isn't it isn't as much if any and these tow things also didn't leave any residue and I put two and tow together. Also seeing the study with the volcano vaporizers being heated over 396f showing some carcinogens and then Dr.Greene making a statement that the essential oils being over heated is probably being the reason for this it sealed it for me.

As time went on I noticed how the people who puffed a lot of hash kind of looked like cigarette smokers and noticed essential oils is put into cigarettes and wondered if there was a connection and sure enough when I looked it up the cigarettes with oils added had higher levels of carbon monoxide and tar and I made a decision to not dab BUT since this is a new method that there is no comparison I can't say for sure it will cause problems in the long run BUT I have senses and mine are telling me it's good to do once in a while as long as I flush my system out the day after but I don't think I want to do it everyday as it may cause a health problem down the line because no where have I seen anything that was heated up to a point that it vaporizes within seconds AND it's an oil that is being inhaled besides hash and I've seen how extreme hash smokers can have that cough OR that "look" although not all. I'm not willing to be the lab rat and find out, I will let others do that for me especially when this has happened before in history where people thought something was good but found out it wasn't and when you look at it you think what would make them think that when you see signs that it may have become a problem. To me just based on the fact that I have to use a torch and a piece of dense metal to get something to boil is a sign I shouldn't be doing it because the same concentrate will boil away slowly if added to a piece of plant fiber or paper and if eaten will take a while to take effect which to me is the lower oils being extracted first then the mid to higher oils being extracted which leaves less chance of a health problem and when you look at absorption of nutrients in the body the slower the better and the less chances of health problems. When it is absorbed fast is when problems occur.. When something is done too fast and not at an exact number related to what you are extracting problems can occur and dabbing is doing exactly that. If you want to do it more power to it and enjoy yourself.

Last but definitely not least, I don't want my tolerance to go through the roof and when you are absorbing concentrates at such a fast rate your body will lower it's receptors as it can't make use of all of these things at once, and store the rest into your fat which will slowly make metabolites and keep the receptors low which will keep your tolerance high and I like having a low tolerance because when I want to get super high I can but when I want to get high off of very little bud I still can. I have seen people need to take half a gram or more of potent concentrate because bud or less of the concentrate does nothing for them and when they take this high amount they are not super high which to me is not a good thing because if you are lowering your cannabinoid receptors like this you are effecting something else in your body and either causing it to work harder or less efficiently to make up for the less work available from the cannabinoid system being lowered. Why do that for a quick hit when I can get more receptors, which means more high, AND being more able to tolerate a stronger dose when it happens by going at a much more slower and precise pace by eating it or vaporizing it at lower temperatures close to or equivalent to the substances boiling points?. This is why vaporizing to me is so nice, I can pick these temperatures based on what is in the herb. I can control the heat whereas dabbing you can't control the heat because once you inhale the temperature drops and you don't know what temperature you are vaping with. Even if you did you can't keep it there which is why the temperature has to be so high in the first place because the metal doesn't hold temperature well as you inhale and if you started at a low temperature as you inhale it will be lowered so much that you will still have concentrates left of the pad/nail/dome from condensation and/or no boiling at all.

 

[NineDelta]

Thanks to all for answer

I always wait several seconds, I use the nail when is not red hot, but I normally seems more smoke than vapor. One day I waited too much and I vaporized a little part, the other part was stuck in the nail. For my little experience, no more than 2 years, flavour and density of cloud are different than using a vaporizer.

I have to buy a laser thermometer, is the better way to see the best temperature.

In the video, first BHO vaporized in Eclipse Vape is this:

and the budder on the TI nail:


I'm agree with the continued use of hash oil mean an increase the tolerance. I don't vaporize oil every day.


Goog Vapors

 

[WatTyler]

It's an interesting debate. I just wish that there were a bit more organised research money in this field. The truthful answer is out there- it's just case of identifying and quantifying the compounds present in a dab at different temperatures. Why-o-why has no one done this?

 

[NineDelta]

It's an interesting debate. I just wish that there were a bit more organised research money in this field. The truthful answer is out there- it's just case of identifying and quantifying the compounds present in a dab at different temperatures. Why-o-why has no one done this?

I agree with you, we need studies about this, is harm reduction.