Crackdown on Legalized Marijuana
- Thread starter Deleted Member 1643
- Start date
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
Part 3. Interesting discussion of the Supremacy Clause.
http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/08/supremacy-clause-states-rights-federal-marijuana-law/75041/
http://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/08/supremacy-clause-states-rights-federal-marijuana-law/75041/
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Remarkable series. So in-depth. Find reading eases worry. Sounds like quite a battle could be brewing, if feds lack the wisdom to avoid it.
Last edited:
pdx3325
Well-Known Member
Here's Session's answer regarding using RICO to shut down rec shops:
“We will, marijuana is against federal law, and that applies in states where they may have repealed their own anti-marijuana laws,” Sessions said. “So yes, we will enforce law in an appropriate way nationwide. It’s not possible for the federal government, of course, to take over everything the local police used to do in a state that’s legalized it.
“And I’m not in favor of legalization of marijuana. I think it’s a more dangerous drug than a lot of people realize. I don’t think we’re going to be a better community if marijuana is sold in every corner grocery store.”
http://www.hughhewitt.com/attorney-general-jeff-sessions/
“We will, marijuana is against federal law, and that applies in states where they may have repealed their own anti-marijuana laws,” Sessions said. “So yes, we will enforce law in an appropriate way nationwide. It’s not possible for the federal government, of course, to take over everything the local police used to do in a state that’s legalized it.
“And I’m not in favor of legalization of marijuana. I think it’s a more dangerous drug than a lot of people realize. I don’t think we’re going to be a better community if marijuana is sold in every corner grocery store.”
http://www.hughhewitt.com/attorney-general-jeff-sessions/
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Thanks, looking forward to the Post piece on Sunday! Infuriatingly, Sessions conflates legalized cannabis with the opioid epidemic again. Do we have any opioid users in the house? What's your perspective?
Naughty digression - have you noticed how quiet Trump's been since he accused Obama of tapping his wires? Wonder who finally gave him a time out?
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@pdx3325 Interesting how Hewitt's question about cannabis crackdown morphed into talking about the opioid problem. Like cannabis and opioids are the same thing. This guy is not informed about a lot of issues and cannabis is one of them. The head attorney of the country has already proved that he feels it is fine to lie under oath. IMO is reason enough to disqualify him from being AG.
Some big pharma companies are overselling their opioid pills to outlets that are illegally selling them to drug dealers. The Feds need to concentrate on that. That would keep them really busy and too occupied to worry about cannabis.
It seems to me like a lot of rules and regulation are being ignored or bypassed. It's all a fucking train wreck. It's really put the country in a funk. They've managed to piss off almost every segment of the population except for the rich white guy.
Some big pharma companies are overselling their opioid pills to outlets that are illegally selling them to drug dealers. The Feds need to concentrate on that. That would keep them really busy and too occupied to worry about cannabis.
It seems to me like a lot of rules and regulation are being ignored or bypassed. It's all a fucking train wreck. It's really put the country in a funk. They've managed to piss off almost every segment of the population except for the rich white guy.
Last edited:
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
..........................................................................................
Not an opiod user but a close follower of the relationship of Cannabis and prescription painkllers (opiods).
The biggest "research test" has already been happening and.... in states with MMJ, deaths from prescript painkillers have fallen 24.8%, a huge huge huge impact!!! And this is not some small academic mini-study as this is real world and the N has to be , what, tens of thousands of patients.
Yet, those slimy bastards still have the unmitigated gall to claim cannabis leads to opiod use when the facts show it is a way OFF of opiods.
IMO, with what is known at this moment, those politicians/appointees that oppose MMJ should be guilty of criminal negligence as they should have known, and would have known, if they took a few hours to educate themselves. Criminal in that they allow thousands to die from opiod abuse (16,000 every year).
I'm not a opiod user but have talked with dozens at our state public input mtgs and every last one has said that cannabis either allowed them to drastically reduce opiod use OR helped them to ween off opiods completely.
Shame on them, they need to held responsible for their deadly lies!
grokit
well-worn member
The opioid crisis was first caused by over-prescribing, then by the fda instructing doctors to cut patients off cold turkey with no plan for withdrawals or for their continued chronic pain management. Of course these people are going to start using street drugs if they can find them, and that's when and why people are dying period. There have been multiple studies done in the eu that concluded even a heroin addict can stay healthy and productive indefinitely, if their use and dosage is supervised by a physician.
I've been using codeine for a few years now, and have to say that it is one of my most useful medicines. But I made a point of staying on the weakest opiate available (= to a tylenol#3), so while I am habituated to daily use I don't consider myself to be strung out. I will probably be transitioning to a schedule 3 rX soon and stopping the daily use, because my previous doctor left. With of the new regs schedule 2 is a pita to get, and it's time to wind down the daily dose anyways. At least that's my plan, the new doc just wants to outsource this part to pain clinic so I'm hoping to have a nuanced conversation about it at least.
Opiates are all the same, whether it's heroin or oxycontin or codeine whatever. There's physical consequences to using them which must be respected, and tolerance must be managed. Also it's important to keep expectations in line, as they aren't a panacea for everything and their utility is limited. But afaik they are the only thing that provides relief from the tyranny of an over-stimulated sympathetic nervous system. For me it's useful to have cannabis and opiates, so I can keep keep a balance between the two and not go too far with either substance. If they're legally prescribed, opiates are inexpensive which also helps.
I would most prefer to have access to quality-controlled black tar opium, just to keep things natural
I've been using codeine for a few years now, and have to say that it is one of my most useful medicines. But I made a point of staying on the weakest opiate available (= to a tylenol#3), so while I am habituated to daily use I don't consider myself to be strung out. I will probably be transitioning to a schedule 3 rX soon and stopping the daily use, because my previous doctor left. With of the new regs schedule 2 is a pita to get, and it's time to wind down the daily dose anyways. At least that's my plan, the new doc just wants to outsource this part to pain clinic so I'm hoping to have a nuanced conversation about it at least.
Opiates are all the same, whether it's heroin or oxycontin or codeine whatever. There's physical consequences to using them which must be respected, and tolerance must be managed. Also it's important to keep expectations in line, as they aren't a panacea for everything and their utility is limited. But afaik they are the only thing that provides relief from the tyranny of an over-stimulated sympathetic nervous system. For me it's useful to have cannabis and opiates, so I can keep keep a balance between the two and not go too far with either substance. If they're legally prescribed, opiates are inexpensive which also helps.
I would most prefer to have access to quality-controlled black tar opium, just to keep things natural
Last edited:
damm
Well-Known Member
I live with someone who uses Opiates and has been using them since 2003 (Methadose typically but I've had to get her off Dilauded and other very hardcore opiates before).
There's a real problem with how we prescribe Opiates that we don't talk about publicly.
I'll be short; I didn't know about this until she was referred to the Pain Clinic at Swedish downtown over a decade ago. Then I understood exactly how come we have so many heroin addicts.
1. If you tell your doctor that you are becoming addicted to the drug; they have to take you off the drug. You don't go into detox generally (unless you can afford it).
2. The Pain Clinic had a joy about threatening to take people off their Opiates for 1-2months every year to ensure the medicine worked as best as possible. Just imagine what it's like to have someone threaten to take away your pain medication; how wrong.
3. They sign you up for lots of endless surgery and attempts to fix the problem
Some Activated Hash Oil right on the Occipital? nerve reduces the migrane from a 10 to 4.
It's possible for her to skip a pill if there's enough THC in the system ..
In short; they prescribe a lot of really addictive drugs. Once you become addicted they kick you off said drug only sealing in the addiction.
... I omitted a lot; there was a lot of prescriptions that should have never been prescribed. Hasn't worked since 2007; can't work anymore. Can't get a disability because her doctor can't determine what is making her disabled. In short she has been misdiagnosed as lou gehrig disease to MS to other forms of Lime Disease... It's actually all the side effects (combined) of all the medications she has taken in the past 10 years.
Her last doctor didn't even write down every prescription he gave her. We even got a trial package of Fentanyl patches
Edit: Swedish has recently taken to Alternative Medicine Combined with Opiate treatments. Sweat lodge + methadose to help remove the negative toxins from your body.
(I don't feel like making another post and I can edit this)
It was bad enough that her doctor would complain about her dosage (very low dose, so low the DEA doesn't even care about her; they know she is on it but it's so low .. ) but after learning how this same doctor would prescribe 8x the dose to people of color ... I started to realize how racism into how doctors prescribe medication.
makes me ill
Last edited:
Baron23
Well-Known Member
20 years ago the lead related story was that patient outcomes were being negatively impacted due to Dr's reticence to properly treat pain. This reticence was due to the Fed Government scaring the shit out of Doc about what/how much they prescribe.
Then the pendulum swung back to the other extreme and we are in the situation we are now.
So, what is Government and NGO's reaction....to swing back to where we were 20 years ago with patients under-medicated and Docs being threatened with enhanced enforcement.
This is truly sad.
Then the pendulum swung back to the other extreme and we are in the situation we are now.
So, what is Government and NGO's reaction....to swing back to where we were 20 years ago with patients under-medicated and Docs being threatened with enhanced enforcement.
This is truly sad.
grokit
well-worn member
It's almost like there's congressional lobbyists for pharma cartels, as well as for the rehab clinics and pain management centers that are being nationally franchised and ipo'd. Exploiting human beings for profit seems to be the entire motivation and business model of the us health care system. Almost there.
Last edited:
damm
Well-Known Member
It's almost like there's congressional lobbyists for pharma cartels, as well as for the rehab clinics and pain management centers that are being nationally franchised and ipo'd. Exploiting human beings for profit seems to be the entire motivation and business model of the us health care system. Almost there.
Oh but there is. Once they were deregulated to the point where they could start advertising pills to the mass markets... Oxycotin was just a dream come true (based on the original marketing spin; it not being addictive)
Why is this drug even on the market? coming off of it is 1/2 of coming off of Heroin (based by my estimate)
... This is what the black market mixes into the Heroin to make it more potent (and create an greater addiction) they come back later that day for more.
The war for drugs is very powerful and should never be discounted. Legal or not; there is a war for drugs.
Legalization is the only cure; there is no amount of police work that can rid the world of drugs. Not even an A-Bomb
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
This just in from a journal:
"Benefits of Publishing include:
"Benefits of Publishing include:
- Cannabinoid-opioid system crosstalk..."
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Why, you ask? May I take it that you perhaps never had the pleasure of spinal surgery or even extensive thoracic surgery. If you have, then I would think that you would be grateful for the relief provided during initial recovery. Also used quite a bit for final stage terminal cancer patients.
Now....as to that utter asshole Sessions, he was at it again today in Richmond, VA and spouting shit left and right. I actually wrote and mailed (as in snail mail) a letter to Trump about state and individual rights and Sessions and MJ. I'm sure it was a waste of time, but we can do only what we can do.
Read it and weep that this guy is our Attorney General
Jeff Sessions: Marijuana Is “Only Slightly Less Awful” Than Heroin
Jeff Sessions, the U.S. Attorney General, had some typically harsh words about marijuana today, at a time when legal pot supporters in Massachusetts and elsewhere are [URL='http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2017/03/08/jeff-sessions-marijuana-massachusets/']on high alert over how the new government will treat the drug.
In prepared remarks for a speech to law enforcement in Richmond today, he outlined his stance on marijuana use, which he has long opposed, saying that “dependency” on it is “only slightly less awful” than heroin.
[/URL]
I realize this may be an unfashionable belief in a time of growing tolerance of drug use. But too many lives are at stake to worry about being fashionable. I reject the idea that America will be a better place if marijuana is sold in every corner store. And I am astonished to hear people suggest that we can solve our heroin crisis by legalizing marijuana – so people can trade one life-wrecking dependency for another that’s only slightly less awful. Our nation needs to say clearly once again that using drugs will destroy your life.
To that end, he continued, he said he supports a renewed drug awareness campaign on the “terrible truth about drugs”, like the ones rolled out decades ago.
In the ’80s and ’90s, we saw how campaigns stressing prevention brought down drug use and addiction. We can do this again. Educating people and telling them the terrible truth about drugs and addiction will result in better choices. We can reduce the use of drugs, save lives and turn back the surge in crime that inevitably follows in the wake of increased drug abuse.
His full remarks are [URL='https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-delivers-remarks-efforts-combat-violent-crime-and-restore']available here.
This is, needless to say, an extreme take. It’s true that a portion of marijuana users develop a dependency on the drug, and researchers have found evidence of withdrawal symptoms among heavy users who stop. But the rate of addiction is much lower than it is for habitual abusers of alcohol or tobacco, and using marijuana is known to be much less dangerous than either of those legal vices.
Opioid overdoses killed nearly 2,000 people last year in Massachusetts alone. Addiction to painkillers and other opioid products can set in fast, it’s a perplexingly difficult addiction to beat, and use of heroin in the region has become even more dangerous amid the rise of a new, highly concentrated drug called fentanyl. You can’t overdose on marijuana.
Among other medical applications, marijuana can be used to treat chronic pain, as a substitute for addictive painkilling drugs, and areas with greater access to medical marijuana appear to have reduced levels of opioid abuse.
Sessions also told reporters on Monday he thinks “medical marijuana has been hyped, maybe too much.”
While he has sent signals he sees merit in Obama-era guidelines on priorities for drug enforcement, Sessions on Wednesday did not address the big question on the minds of Massachusetts pro-cannabis activists, pot entrepreneurs, and regulators: Will he oversee a crackdown on recreational marijuana shops and medical marijuana dispensaries, which still technically violate federal law?
In a statement today, pot proponent Jim Borghesani, spokesman for the campaign that legalized recreational marijuana use in Massachusetts, called Sessions’ remarks “absurd and contemptible,” and said he remains on edge about the future but “cautiously optimistic” that Trump will leave the state’s soon-to-be-budding marijuana industry alone:[/URL]
Sessions’ archaic sentiments on marijuana are absurd and contemptible, but the larger trouble area is his ability to put DOJ resources to work counteracting voter-approved policy in legal states. So far I’ve seen no official indication from Sessions or President Trump of such action. So, I remain cautiously optimistic that Trump is going to honor his campaign rhetoric about letting states determine their approach to marijuana policy.
I'm pretty sure I have hated every attorney general since Bobby Kennedy. Why can't they get an AG from the middle. Why is it always the 'gimme' to the extreme wings of the respective parties. sigh
I would be happy to see Sessions step on his dick bad enough to have him removed from this office. I believe that would be a service to the country.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
NICE! Needed me a fix.
Don't hold back. Let us know how you really feel. If everybody thought it was a waste of time, nobody would ever do anything.
Show of hands. Whose lives have benn wrecked by cannabis?
Has there ever been a man so desperately in need of a hit as Attorney General Beauregard "Buzzkill" Sessions? Do you suppose he gets high in secret and feels guilty about it afterwards?
There is no way that substances as active but as non-toxic as the cannabinoids would not have medicinal uses.
It wasn't a matter of getting an AG. Sessions had his choice of posts. He was a big part of the campaign, and he's a big part of the administration and its policies.
Don't hold back. Let us know how you really feel. If everybody thought it was a waste of time, nobody would ever do anything.
Show of hands. Whose lives have benn wrecked by cannabis?
Has there ever been a man so desperately in need of a hit as Attorney General Beauregard "Buzzkill" Sessions? Do you suppose he gets high in secret and feels guilty about it afterwards?
There is no way that substances as active but as non-toxic as the cannabinoids would not have medicinal uses.
It wasn't a matter of getting an AG. Sessions had his choice of posts. He was a big part of the campaign, and he's a big part of the administration and its policies.
Last edited:
damm
Well-Known Member
There's a reason I had the Dilauden but knowing it's addiction rate I still stand by my original statement. Pain relief a wonderful thing; but getting addicted after 1 or 2 doses is no good (on low doses even) to the patient longterm. Sure you've fixed his back now he's hooked on heroin and once you cut his rx; he's going to the black market.
----
This is unfortunately how we are loosing a lot of citizens to blackmarket heroin. The fact these patients are using Marijuana is a sign they don't feel in control and want better medicine (imo).
Last edited:
little maggie
Well-Known Member
I wish it was so, But there are a lot of people who see different media than many of us do. So when Trump says that he's getting rid of auto restrictions to help jobs in the US people believe that. He was elected when many of us didn't expect that and is still very popular. Regardless of his real intentions which are mostly big business related, too many people believe his propaganda.Sessions wants to go back to Nancy Reagan's 'just say no' campaign. He has no clue regarding the size of the resistance army, and we are never going back. Relax folks pot is not going anywhere. The people of America People are going to resist everything this administration attempts. Simple. We must make things difficult at every turn.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
I think you are missing my point or I did not make my point clear. My point was that AG seems to be the 'gimme'....the 'payoff'...to the more extreme wings of either party as some kind of reward to the base. This is what I object to. That includes my rather long memory of both Dem and Rep AG's.
It is absolutely not my experience that anyone gets addicted to any narcotic after 1 or 2 doses nor that someone receiving post operative doses of Dilaudid will, upon release, be searching the wild for their next fix. I hate narcotics for a number of reasons but they also have a very valid medical use. Sorry, but to me the "once and you're strung out" is the Reefer Madness view of narcotics. Now its absolutely true that for chronic pain, they are getting people WAY strung out on very hard narcotics to, IMO, the patients detriment.
Sessions wants to go back to Nancy Reagan's 'just say no' campaign. He has no clue regarding the size of the resistance army, and we are never going back. Relax folks pot is not going anywhere. The people of America People are going to resist everything this administration attempts. Simple. We must make things difficult at every turn.
I rather agree. Legal MJ, and in particular MMJ, will be this administrations hot third rail if they chose to bite on it. I don't think Trump is stupid enough to pick that particular losing fight, but I may well be wrong. And, as @mitchgo61 initially pointed out, if he let's Sessions move ahead in an aggressive way on MJ, it will be in so many courts for so many years that some of us on this board will not be alive to see its conclusion.
Cheers
Last edited:
damm
Well-Known Member
Not everyone reacts to each drug the same way. So it may not be your experience; but it is mine. So you should respect that opinion and understand that yours differs.
Addiction takes many factors to take hold; and to say a drug cannot get you addicted is just false and wishful thinking at best.
How Marijuana affects me isn't the same as how it affects others. Same can be said for most things; and recovery is pretty similar. Very personal.
So be careful when saying something cannot be addictive (because you haven't seen it personally); there's a lot of humans in this world and I doubt you've seen 1% of them. It's not something we have spent enough time researching and more time helping people cope.
Last edited:
Baron23
Well-Known Member
I did not say that.
I did say that in my experience, and let me add also IAW my propositional knowledge, none of these narcotics, to include Dilaudid, will addict a patient after one or two doses.
Now you say you did, in fact, get addicted to Dilaudid after just that...one or two doses. That is, specifically, you said that this was your experience. I'm sure you are being as open and honest about this as you can be and I have to take that at face value.
However, if this is so, then you are a far outlier and would probably be of great interest to medical science.
Best of luck to you.
Last edited:
That's true. Been there. I took Dilaudid for a while due to cancer pain. Massive tumors & big time Stage IIb pain. Didn't have Stage IV around that time but I've been there too. Spinal pain is brutal as well.
No amount of weed is going to put a dent in that kind of pain.
damm
Well-Known Member
But we should not make patients pain free either; comfortable yes. I see doctors down in the Pain Clinic in Seattle writing up enough Dilaudid to take down a Buffalo. Not very scientific but I have seen them write larger doses and larger amounts to colored patients; while they give white patients less.
But I think I've seen an different side of the Pain Clinic down at Swedish hospital than most people like to admit exists.
I just wish they would prescribe Suboxone more often; I know most people know of it as the heroin to use when you are addicted and trying to rehab. But it can be used for pain management also
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Might be right about past AGs but this time, it was more likely Sessions' choice as to where he could best advance his odious personal political agenda. He was one of Trump's first and strongest supporters when the party establishment was anti-Trump. He then became national security advisor to the campaign where his agenda shaped the administration's.
@pdx3325, still haven't seen the article by Hugh Hewitt in the Post, but found a couple of others. Not necessarily anything new.
Jeff Sessions: ‘Medical marijuana has been hyped, maybe too much’
By Rachel Weiner March 15
Post coverage of the Richmond remarks.
Two years after the DEA admitted marijuana is less dangerous than heroin, Jeff Sessions would like to reconsider
By Christopher Ingraham March 15
Analysis of those remarks.
Last edited:
Baron23
Well-Known Member
While plausible, I don't see any way for any of us to actually know either way.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Thanks, already cited. Opinion but links to sources. The part about Sessions having his choice isn't sourced.