I hope things work out for you. Shit be fucked up.
COVID-19 News
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I hope things work out for you. Shit be fucked up.
florduh
Well-Known Member
Coronavirus report card: Experts give Canada a B, U.S. an F
Is the American pandemic experience really the worst in the world? It depends how you measure it.
Our southern neighbour does have the highest raw numbers of COVID-19 cases and deaths anywhere, and its testing rate is low enough that it cannot account for that. But several European countries have worse per capita death rates.
Regardless of whether the U.S. is at the absolute bottom of the list, our panel made it clear they can find little to praise in the American response. Five of the seven experts gave the U.S. a failing grade.
Common criticisms of the American approach included the politicization of public health advice such as mask-wearing, and decisions to reopen businesses before virus activity had tampered down enough to make doing so safe.
The greatest scorn, though, was reserved for what many of the experts described as a clear lack of federal leadership. Unlike in Canada, where provincial and local authorities have generally followed the federal handbook, mixed messages have abounded.
"There's been conflicting messaging and communication and an overall anti-science feel to national response," Tuite said July 21 in an email.
Is the American pandemic experience really the worst in the world? It depends how you measure it.
Our southern neighbour does have the highest raw numbers of COVID-19 cases and deaths anywhere, and its testing rate is low enough that it cannot account for that. But several European countries have worse per capita death rates.
Regardless of whether the U.S. is at the absolute bottom of the list, our panel made it clear they can find little to praise in the American response. Five of the seven experts gave the U.S. a failing grade.
Common criticisms of the American approach included the politicization of public health advice such as mask-wearing, and decisions to reopen businesses before virus activity had tampered down enough to make doing so safe.
The greatest scorn, though, was reserved for what many of the experts described as a clear lack of federal leadership. Unlike in Canada, where provincial and local authorities have generally followed the federal handbook, mixed messages have abounded.
"There's been conflicting messaging and communication and an overall anti-science feel to national response," Tuite said July 21 in an email.
Planck
believes in Dog
Dear American friends, I'm sorry this mess is happening to you.
Maybe if all of society's money hadnt been just funnelled to the rich, welfare wouldnt mean "more than two-thirds of current recipients - most of them in low-paid jobs - now earn more on unemployment than they did when they were working". I know, I know, sounds like communism, huh...
Lemmy had a solution in 1987:
Maybe if all of society's money hadnt been just funnelled to the rich, welfare wouldnt mean "more than two-thirds of current recipients - most of them in low-paid jobs - now earn more on unemployment than they did when they were working". I know, I know, sounds like communism, huh...
The millions 'hanging by a thread' as coronavirus aid expires
A $600 boost to unemployment benefit is set to expire soon, leaving many people worried about money.
www.bbc.co.uk
Lemmy had a solution in 1987:
florduh
Well-Known Member
It's gonna get real ugly for Floriduh. This State relies on tourism. Almost every part of the economy stems from that. If we saw even a 10% reduction in tourism to the State, we'd be fucked. Polls I've seen show something like 70% of Americans wouldn't consider going on a vacation any time soon. Oh, and we won't have any international tourists for a while either.
This idea that cutting benefits will "incentivize" the unemployed to get back to work doesn't jive with reality down here. For shits and giggles I looked at what jobs are available within a 60 mile radius of where I am. There have been maybe 20 positions posted this month. Almost all of them are part time dishwashing or cashier positions. I know plenty of furloughed or fired folks who had somewhat middle class incomes before this thing. There just aren't jobs available that will allow them to keep their homes. I'm betting even those meager jobs will start to disappear when the unemployment bonuses disappear. There will be a lot of people with a lot less money to spend.
Oh well. At least banks and the wealthy will get to transfer more property from the middle class to themselves for pennies on the dollar. Again. For the second time in a decade.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
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florduh
Well-Known Member
At record low interest rates!
Floriduh is the opposite of "locked down" right now. Anybody itching to hop on a plane and vacation in America's newest COVID hotspot?
If lockdowns were the only thing preventing Floriduh from thriving economically, I should have been dodging tourists on the freeway every day for the last 2 months. Instead, they're pretty empty (kind've nice actually, but scary at the same time).
The only way to get this State's economy back to a functioning level is to get the outbreaks under control. Without that, enough people will avoid travelling here that the economy is fucked.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
You don't always get the Heroes you want, you get the Heroes you need:
Sally Quinn Modeled the Erotic Hero of Her 1991 Bestseller on…Anthony Fauci
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
It would be bad enough if this was just "happening to us". Instead we are actively doing it to ourselves. The former might be unfortunate and sad but the implication would be that it isn't our fault. That isn't what is happening. What is happening IS our fault. Our behavior is the reason for it. We are active participants in a death cult run from the white house and supported by certain Governors and Senators. This was by no means unavoidable and it never HAD to get out of our control. But it IS out of control and I have no reason to believe it is going to get better with this administration in charge of it. They are just not capable of following the directions of the experts like most nations have done almost everywhere else in the world.
Just keep drinking the koolaid, folks. It kinda makes me wonder if the Trump family has bought up all the cemeteries...
florduh
Well-Known Member
Trump only pivoted on coronavirus after reportedly being warned of spikes among 'our people' in red states
People close to President Trump told The Washington Post they think that, throughout most of the coronavirus pandemic, he struggled to wholly address the crisis because of an unwillingness to admit error, a positive feedback loop from advisers and Fox News, and a "penchant for magical thinking" that led him to believe the virus would soon disappear.
But Trump has seemingly come around a bit and is now acknowledging the pandemic isn't going to improve overnight. Per the Post, the pivot apparently came only after Trump realized his voting base was in danger. Over the last few weeks, his advisers have reportedly shown him maps and data that highlight spikes in coronavirus cases among "our people" in Republican states, a senior administration official told the Post.
The advisers have also reportedly shared projections predicting surges in Midwestern battleground states like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, all of which are key to Trump winning re-election. Read more at The Washington Post.
News...
Coronavirus: How bad will winter really be?
"People gather more indoors in winter"
News? Whoever wrote this article got a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious
Coronavirus: How bad will winter really be?
"People gather more indoors in winter"
News? Whoever wrote this article got a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious
Coronavirus: How bad will winter really be?
Could we be heading for a double whammy of flu and coronavirus?
www.bbc.co.uk
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the difference would have been if the press did not go crazy about Trump mentioning hydroxychloriquine or Covid patients did not get put back into nursing homes.
Point to decisions made by the administration that affect people as much as those and maybe we can start talking about a "death cult" in the administration. Until then, the data is more problematical for a very small group of governors and for the orangemanbad portion of the media.
florduh
Well-Known Member
Something tells me doctors don't generally take prescribing advice from politicians or the HuffPo opinion page. They were probably just hesitant to prescribe an immunosuppressant during a pandemic. And the science on this stuff is still a mixed bag. It's definitely not a silver bullet.
Yep. Cuomo likely killed those 6,000+ nursing home patients. His victory lap is pretty disgusting. The CDC did say nursing homes could accept COVID patients if they had adequate PPE. Of course, none of them did. Which brings me to...
I dunno. Maybe the Federal Government could've spent January and February getting ready to stockpile PPE and ventilators. Instead of waiting until the middle of March.
Maybe the National Security Council Pandemic Team the President disbanded a few years ago could've made that early recommendation.
Maybe they also could've used those critical months to start figuring out an acceptable testing and/or tracing regime.
If we're just going to "leave it to the States" to figure everything out, Maybe the President shouldn't have been tweeting "LIBERATE MICHIGAN/VIRGINIA/MN" during lockdowns.
Maybe the politicization of masks could've been tamped down if the President encouraged their use and wore one before last week.
Maybe the White House staff shouldn't have dumped a file of the NIH Director's supposed "Mistakes" to every major media outlet in an effort to discredit him... further diminishing trust in public health experts.
Now, there's no way for me to quantify how many deaths may have been prevented if the Administration acted differently. And I agree, Democratic Governors and Mayors like Cuomo and DeBunglio were also disgustingly negligent.
We have no heroes in the American political class right now. But this idea that the Federal Government's response was great...it's just those evil Demonrats who messed up... doesn't hold water.
Yeesh. I wonder how many deaths the "This is Just the Flu/Masks are Bullshit/Don't listen to Experts" portion of the media are responsible for. Probably hard to quantify.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Trump made a supposed 'pivot'. Now he takes the virus seriously. Uh huh. And what does this pivot consist of? Well, the daily coronavirus briefings have returned but with just Trump, no scientists or medical experts. In other words, Trump is doing coronavirus reality tv in which he pretends to be responding to the virus. Is he going to buckle down and use the power of his office to manufacture sufficient PPE, testing materials and reagents, organize a national tracing system, etc.? Nope. Is he going to read his briefings and listen to the scientists? Nah, he is going to watch Fox News and listen to his totally unqualified and incompetent son-in-law. He will get advice from Lou Dobbs and Tucker Carlson. He is going to go on tv and reassure you that he he may have dismissed the seriousness of the disease and measures to control it before, but now he cares, he gets it. Except he doesn't. And the people he relies on like Fox and Friends, Jared Kushner, Stephen Miller, Larry Kudlow (in his life Larry Kudlow has never been right about anything!) etc don't get it either. It's going to be a long wait until January and a lot of people who need not are going to die.
florduh
Well-Known Member
Florida judge denies request to block mask mandate in Palm Beach County, saying: "We do not have a constitutional or protected right to infect others"
A Florida judge on Monday upheld a county's coronavirus ordinance that requires masks be worn in public places like stores, saying government officials have the authority to protect their residents from the spread of infectious diseases.
Circuit Judge John Kastrenakes, noting Palm Beach County’s recent spike in cases and deaths, rejected the challengers' claim that the recently enacted ordinance violates their rights to privacy and personal autonomy.
Citing a century-old U.S. Supreme Court ruling that said a state can mandate vaccinations, Kastrenakes said county commissioners came to “a reasonable and logical conclusion that mandating the wearing of facial coverings best serves their constituents.”
A Florida judge on Monday upheld a county's coronavirus ordinance that requires masks be worn in public places like stores, saying government officials have the authority to protect their residents from the spread of infectious diseases.
Circuit Judge John Kastrenakes, noting Palm Beach County’s recent spike in cases and deaths, rejected the challengers' claim that the recently enacted ordinance violates their rights to privacy and personal autonomy.
Citing a century-old U.S. Supreme Court ruling that said a state can mandate vaccinations, Kastrenakes said county commissioners came to “a reasonable and logical conclusion that mandating the wearing of facial coverings best serves their constituents.”
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Pity the Chinese already bought up or back the majority of the PPE out there before they described what was happening. As to ventilators, no one in the U.S. had medical problems because of a lack of vents. "Flattening the curve" worked.
Yes, a government committee would have surely helped. Some claim that's not what happened.
The Truth about the National Security Council’s Pandemic Team
Partly false claim: Trump fired entire pandemic response team in 2018
Testing is a valid complaint. It would depend on which aspect of testing we're talking about before talking about responsibility. The U.S. is testing beyond the capabilities of most any other nation. It is not solving the problem. Track and trace was never a possibility unless we shut down the borders at the first moment we heard of the weird disease from Wuhan. Even then, there is some evidence it was already here and broke containment into community spread. Once there, we're generally in a flatten the curve until it burns out or vaccine mode.
The president is responsible for any federal errors on testing. He's the president. I'm not sure he could have fixed one of the major early testing errors. States demanded "testing kits". CDC sent out testing kits. States said "where's the reagent?". CDC told them, "Reagent? You asked for testing kits and we sent the swabs, tubes and other things needed to take a sample. What you do with that to test is not our issue."
A greater error, in my opinion, had to do with the cutting of regulations in order to ramp up testing. We got a lot of testing through regulatory hoops by private industry to put out results to people on live virus or antibodies. Trump helped remove those obstacles from the FDA and/or CDC. While more testing got out, because of error rate differences and a lack of understanding what each was testing for, the data we got from those tests were weak. That seems a concern we don't know the results of as yet. Did the removal of regulations on testing help or hurt?
Federalism is not "leave it to the States". It recognizes different duties and responsibilities between the sovereigns. I think trying to get the states open is a good use of the bully pulpit.
Trump politicized masks? I'm going to go with the orangmanbad press that did so. Trump gave his reasons for not wearing one himself when asked. The reasons sounded a lot like Fauci's defenders without the "dehydration".
NIH director's mistakes or Fauci? My understanding is the NIH director is defending Fauci from the claims of error. A completely biased blog writing (With a couple spelling/grammar errors to boot!) describing some complaints against him.
Feckless Fauci Lies About Masks And Nearly Everything Else
florduh
Well-Known Member
That could've been noticed in December or January and measures could've been taken to ramp up domestic production. I don't think the "hoping for a miracle" plan in Jan/Feb worked out.
A lot of this comes down to preparedness. It's not like we didn't know a global pandemic was a possibility. We could've had a plan and put it into effect as soon as this looked like a potential problem. According to the Obummer transition team, the Trump Admin was handed a 64 page plan in 2016. If that plan was too Obummery, they had 3 years to modify it.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree that fomenting insurrection is a good use of the bully pulpit. Those Governors, in the absence of a cohesive national plan, decided on advice from public health experts that lockdowns were the best way to limit the spread. The President encouraged people to not go along with that public health decision.
I also thought it was really funny there were no "LIBERATE FLORIDUH" tweets given we were under similar lockdowns at the time. I don't think the Commander in Chief playing petty politics during a national crisis was helpful. Lots of people did, but I expect better from a President.
So Trump has been dehydrated (or whatever) every single day (save one) since March? Come on. Plus... that's not what I said. They were politicized before this whole thing started. The President took no steps to tamp down on the politicization, and instead made it worse. I don't think that's competent leadership.
I think lots of politicians from both sides of the aisle dropped the ball here. I could make excuses for Democratic Governors. Or Republican Governors. But fuck 'em. None of them deserve to be graded on a curve here, and sorry but that obviously includes the President of The COVID Capitol of the World.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Remember masks are for others. For you? Maybe drop a few pounds.
Why is obesity so common in COVID-19 patients?
Modnote: Off-topic political blog article excerpt/link removed.
Why is obesity so common in COVID-19 patients?
Modnote: Off-topic political blog article excerpt/link removed.
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And along with that, he downplayed the severity of what the world was facing.
@Tranquility Saying its acceptable for a president to bully states says everything about your outlook. Trump uses social media less responsibly than a 12 year old.
@florduh Speaking of buffoons, fuck Boris too!
EDIT: Just watched the link, and tbf, he's right, and I've tried upping my health since covid started. Over the weekend I got delivery of a mace for exercising with
EDIT 2: We get bike clinics on the NHS over here
'Fix your bike' vouchers launch, as cycling to be prescribed on NHS
The prime minister says GPs in areas with poor health will be encouraged to prescribe cycling.
www.bbc.co.uk
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ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
You are at the very least an unreliable narrator on this subject - almost as if you are deliberately trying to prevent any actual thought on the topic: the press did NOT “go crazy”, Trump did not merely “mention” HCQ.
Trump *pushed* HCQ - not once, but repeatedly, for days at least, if not weeks. What the press did was *notice* that the president was recommending an unproven off-label use of HCQ *AGAINST* the advice of his medical and public-health experts not once, but repeatedly; and when he did, the press reminded their readers/viewers that expert opinion was NOT in support of blanket wholesale distribution and use of a medication with serious side-effects with barely even anecdotal inference that it *might* help. That fact that at least one person - perhaps more gullible than you, perhaps not - died as a result of following the presidential *urging* to employ HCQ. “What have you got to lose?” he asked. “Their LIVES” is the answer. It was irresponsible of Trump to keep pushing HCQ - and it would have been irresponsible of the press to have ignored that fact in the face of his continued pressure.
And frankly it’s IMO irresponsible of *you* to describe the chain of events as ‘the press going crazy over a simple mention’.
Where to even START with this.... how about his claim that there WAS no PPE in the national stockpile as he GAVE an unknown quantity of PPE to RUSSIA; how about his nepotistic pseudo-czar Jared Kushners claim that the national stockpile wasn’t for the NATION’s needs but for THE ADMINISTRATION; how about the disbanding of the work groups and watchdogs (and the elimination of the professionals who staffed and managed those programs) whose *entire* mandate was to watch for things like emerging pandemics, planning for them, and being ready WHEN they occur.“Tranquility” said:
How about the repeated minimizing and hand-waving, the repeated assurances that “everything’s fine, no problem, we’re good? The deflections and denials that we’re made by him and in his name when they and he KNEW they’d already burned down the barn with the livestock still in it (‘only 15, soon down to zero, were in great shape, nothing to see here? How about the regime continuing to allow travelers from outbreak areas - first China, then the UK - without even officially noticing that returning travelers could EASILY be infected, and with NO physical checks, NO contact info, NO tracking or follow-up of any kind, thereby allowing those travelers who WERE infected to spread it without interference. This went on FOR WEEKS while Europe got sick by the tens of thousands. More hand-waving. More denials. More empty reassurances.
How about his faint-praise damnation of *basic* protective measures such as masks, such as distancing, such as TESTING? Which again went on and on, but for MONTHS, not mere weeks? And the end of any national focus on testing - following weeks of repeated presidential complaining that somehow the tests were CREATING the problem? The campaign commercials masquerading as pandemic briefings. The persistence shown BY THE PRESIDENT to create unsafe public conditions at his own rallies and events - including the Republican Convention, which only came to an end when he learned the bitter truth that it simply couldn’t be made to happen the way he wanted it?
And there’s the current hyperventilation by the president and his lackeys to OPEN THE ECONOMY, OPEN THE SCHOOLS!!! You’ve made it plenty clear that the economy is more important than the public - so has the president and his henchmen. I’m sure you know that the public *IS* the economy - than none of this necessary activity happens AT ALL unless *PEOPLE* ARE DOING THE THINGS. There aren’t enough billionaires, millionaires, CEOs, CFOs, and MBAs to do it all without the underpaid and overburdened schmucks they consider “essential”...which is double-speak for DISPOSABLE...so of course, those “essentials” must work and risk death and the loss of their friends and families because “OMG THE ECONOMY!!!1”...which is double-speak for the continued profitability of the bosses who send them out to die.
Tthe school situation is even more extreme: we need the kids out of the house at it doesn’t matter who dies or in what numbers - it just has to happen! FULL EXPOSURE FOR EVERYBODY! so you lazy parents might as well get back to work, ‘cause staying home won’t help you...or your kids...or your parents. DIE if if you must but GET BACK TO WORK!
Even if there’s no work to do: no customers, no business. Small business in the US have been GUTTED, bankruptcies and out-of business notices are at an all time high - not because we were “locked down” but because sane people recognize danger when it approaches - and only a fool tries to catch a falling knife. “Back to school“ means back into the soup, die or don’t - it’s all on you, Jack: the president take no responsibility for this, for any of his refusal to act, for his possibility-intentional shortsightedness in short-sheeting our public health professionals...or for anything. Sink or swim. Sucks to be us.
I’ll stop there. Any ONE of these items is more than enough reason to deny him a second term and put his administration on the curb. Add them together, and there is only one course for the nation if we want to survive and that is to FIRE HIM.
You wanted points to discuss. There you are. Discuss. Not jab at others, not make up excuses, not ‘Obama, Clinton, Sleepy Joe’, not hide from the public record which shows #45’s job performance to be filled with failure, not act like any of this someone else’s ’partisanship’. This is your chance to make some intelligent relevant contributions to the thread. Can you sidestep your own partisan attachments long enough to do it. This is your chance...your last chance, as far as I’m concerned.
In the face of this administration’s completely breakdown in performance and credibility, I find it hard to pick nits with mayors faced with multiple mounting crises making bad choices in desperate situations. You singled them out.
You assert that the blame lies with everyone BUT the president and his enablers: make sense of it if you can.
ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
Never mind: you seem to have NOTHING to say or do except place the blame on ‘not-Trump’. Not interested in hearing another dishonest word from you about any of this. As a “conservative“, you really ought to be ashamed of your bullshit: you make it clear you have no principles, just partisan allegiance.Pity the Chinese already bought up or back the majority of the PPE out there before they described what was happening. As to ventilators, no one in the U.S. had medical problems because of a lack of vents. "Flattening the curve" worked.
Yes, a government committee would have surely helped. Some claim that's not what happened.
The Truth about the National Security Council’s Pandemic Team
Partly false claim: Trump fired entire pandemic response team in 2018
Testing is a valid complaint. It would depend on which aspect of testing we're talking about before talking about responsibility. The U.S. is testing beyond the capabilities of most any other nation. It is not solving the problem. Track and trace was never a possibility unless we shut down the borders at the first moment we heard of the weird disease from Wuhan. Even then, there is some evidence it was already here and broke containment into community spread. Once there, we're generally in a flatten the curve until it burns out or vaccine mode.
The president is responsible for any federal errors on testing. He's the president. I'm not sure he could have fixed one of the major early testing errors. States demanded "testing kits". CDC sent out testing kits. States said "where's the reagent?". CDC told them, "Reagent? You asked for testing kits and we sent the swabs, tubes and other things needed to take a sample. What you do with that to test is not our issue."
A greater error, in my opinion, had to do with the cutting of regulations in order to ramp up testing. We got a lot of testing through regulatory hoops by private industry to put out results to people on live virus or antibodies. Trump helped remove those obstacles from the FDA and/or CDC. While more testing got out, because of error rate differences and a lack of understanding what each was testing for, the data we got from those tests were weak. That seems a concern we don't know the results of as yet. Did the removal of regulations on testing help or hurt?
Federalism is not "leave it to the States". It recognizes different duties and responsibilities between the sovereigns. I think trying to get the states open is a good use of the bully pulpit.
Trump politicized masks? I'm going to go with the orangmanbad press that did so. Trump gave his reasons for not wearing one himself when asked. The reasons sounded a lot like Fauci's defenders without the "dehydration".
NIH director's mistakes or Fauci? My understanding is the NIH director is defending Fauci from the claims of error. A completely biased blog writing (With a couple spelling/grammar errors to boot!) describing some complaints against him.
Feckless Fauci Lies About Masks And Nearly Everything Else
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florduh
Well-Known Member
I read your post as the CBD/CBG portion of my day gave way to a THC laden evening (delta9 and 8). Jesus Christ. A total sense of unreality set in. I'm trying to imagine telling anyone in the early 2000s that in 2020, the guy who hosted a game show where he decides if Bret Michael or Cyndi Lauper would make a better CEO of a company that doesn't exist was the President, attempting to (somewhat) lead us through a once-in-a-century global pandemic that's already killed tens of thousands of Americans. They'd think you're insane. This is insane.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Very nice summary. He went in my Bozo Bin some time ago so while I appreciate your efforts to have an actual exchange of ideas, I'm afraid it is a waste of time that I was no longer willing to endure. Never the less, in your effort towards actual engagement your arguments are well thought out and clearly expressed for those still paying attention and willing to actually consider, though there don't seem to be many willing to argue an opposing position. I wonder why?
I dunno. Idiocracy was 2005 and even then seemed way too prescient to be actually funny
I feel like I've been watching this madness unfold for a long time, its just reached a more overly obvious level in recent years due to the catastrophes being more overt now.
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