Counterfeit batteries!

[Caligula]

Well, I hadn't thought much about this subject until today. I just received a single "AW IMR 18650 2000mAh 3.7v battery" from a seller (r-Isales) in Ebay. Everything was fine until I put it into the charger next to my other AW IMR 18650 2000mAh 3.7v battery. This is what I saw:

Now one of these is not like the other. Can you tell?


Im not sure if this is an actual issue yet, mind you. The new battery is still charging. Maybe something changed in terms of packaging or manufacturing? Its been known to happen. Then again, counterfeit batteries have also been known to pop up, and AW is one of the ones that have had a past with this specific issue (from what I gathered from my Googles anyway).

Oh and then there's this:

In any case, I'm wondering if anyone has some insight/input here? @CentiZen @BLAZING OG @OF @Pipes ?

Also, let this serve as an FYI for everyone else. This is something I hadn't considered when I purchased this unit.


edit: Just an afterthought... I was going to stack these in my Persei with the long tube SS kit. Is that a bad idea to even try at this point?

 

[BLAZING OG]

Well, I hadn't thought much about this subject until today. I just received a single "AW IMR 18650 2000mAh 3.7v battery" from a seller (r-Isales) in Ebay. Everything was fine until I put it into the charger next to my other AW IMR 18650 2000mAh 3.7v battery. This is what I saw:

Now one of these is not like the other. Can you tell?


Im not sure if this is an actual issue yet, mind you. The new battery is still charging. Maybe something changed in terms of packaging or manufacturing? Its been known to happen. Then again, counterfeit batteries have also been known to pop up, and AW is one of the ones that have had a past with this specific issue (from what I gathered from my Googles anyway).

Oh and then there's this:

In any case, I'm wondering if anyone has some insight/input here? @CentiZen @BLAZING OG @OF @Pipes ?

Also, let this serve as an FYI for everyone else. This is something I hadn't considered when I purchased this unit.


edit: Just an afterthought... I was going to stack these in my Persei with the long tube SS kit. Is that a bad idea to even try at this point?

I normally stay away from FleaBay when it comes to batteries, the batteries are the main and most important part in performance for the device, like putting water down gas vs the 100 octane racing gas lol But in all seriousness , I would highly suggest o get your batteries from a reputable dealer/retailer.
www.lighthound.com

is the shit
& also I buy from here, pay a $1-2 more now for less headaches in the future.
Nothing but high quality cells, here and even have a zombie edition lol lol
http://www.callieskustoms.com/CalliesKustoms-Batteries.html

these guys are the bomb as well.!!!!!

I have bought my batteries from the 2 above and have never had an issues with my cells, they still rock as hard as when I got them about a year ago.
Some people buying ebay cells and from other places have battery issues almost right of the bat if not a few months down the line.
I have had good luck on amazon but you still have to be careful, I still prefer the 2 above, some other might be able to chime in on other reputable places.
Not sure if the battery is a fake or not but if one battery is weaker in a sense than the other it might try to reverse charge it self, but @Pipes @CentiZen @OF are way more qualified than me on the inner workings of these batteries, I would wait for a reply from either of the three electrical GURU's

 

[Caligula]

@BLAZING OG Do you have a trusted "legit" AW to compare these to?

 

[CentiZen]

That's a great video you've found Caligua, I'd not seen it before but it actually outlines the exact same way that I test my batteries. I'm in agreement with Blazing OG, it's not a good idea to use eBay as a source of 18650 cells or packs simply because of how prevalent counterfeit cells are. I've gotten cells that were visually identical to NCR18650 cells in the past that measured out to less than 1000mAh; thats when I decided to give up on eBay as a source and started buying them direct from Panasonic.

I can't tell if those are AW's, but I wouldn't stack them until you talked to him directly

 

[Caligula]

That's a great video you've found Caligua, I'd not seen it before but it actually outlines the exact same way that I test my batteries. I'm in agreement with Blazing OG, it's not a good idea to use eBay as a source of 18650 cells or packs simply because of how prevalent counterfeit cells are. I've gotten cells that were visually identical to NCR18650 cells in the past that measured out to less than 1000mAh; thats when I decided to give up on eBay as a source and started buying them direct from Panasonic.

I can't tell if those are AW's, but I wouldn't stack them until you talked to him directly

I guess thats a good point. Given that AW is in China, Im wondering what the relative ease/hassle contacting someone is going to be though. Maybe they have an N American branch? I need to go hit up the Google.

Oh, and if it matters the unit with the RoHS marking is the battery I got direct from G over at UP Tech.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

FWIW, none of the ones shown on Lighhound website have that ROHS marking.
But my ones from ebay do.

 

[Caligula]

FWIW, none of the ones shown on Lighhound website have that ROHS marking.
But my ones from ebay do.

Well thats interesting.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

The sleuthing begins...

Hit up googly images for "aw imr batteries", it'll make it even more confusing.lol

 

[BLAZING OG]

@BLAZING OG Do you have a trusted "legit" AW to compare these to?

Unfortunately, I dont have any more AW's to compare, have sold or traded a few items with the AW's , I might still have a set of AW 18350's to post pics of if thats any help.

 

[CentiZen]

Caligua, I've PM'd you AW's email. He's really just one dude, super knowledgeable and very friendly. I don't know if he will reply in this matter, but it's worth a shot.

I have an AW 18650 that was sent to me directly by THC Scientific, and it not only does not have the RoHS/CE/Recycling/Don't Bin markings on it, but it does not even have the AW logo on it. I can post a picture if your interested.

My main reason against using those two batteries together, is that until we know that these cells are the same type and grade of cells, using them together would cause the weaker battery to take a lot more stress. I have a good feeling that the persei computer will prevent any dangerous situations from occurring though.

 

[OF]

My main reason against using those two batteries together, is that until we know that these cells are the same type and grade of cells, using them together would cause the weaker battery to take a lot more stress. I have a good feeling that the persei computer will prevent any dangerous situations from occurring though.

FWIW my trusted AW IMRs also don't have all the alphabet soup markings.

I fully agree with CZ here, definitely don't mix the two. Given the nature of the beast with no protection boards for the batteries the weaker will definitely get hammered hard, perhaps fatally in a single use. The Persei would not only be able to run it to absolute zero Volts, but even charge it some backwards.....

I don't agree, however, the Persei cannot protect each cell in the battery, it can only protect the total from dropping below 2.5 Volts or so. If one were fully charged (say 4.0), the other could be reverse charged over a Volt and the Persei and KISS cart would still be trying. Worse still would be a SR71 or similar high power load. To protect each cell requires the sort of protection scheme used in DiVinci, Solo and other series cell vapes. One that shuts the whole show down if any single cell in the battery drops below 2.5 or so.

Mixing such high performance unprotected batteries is exactly the thin ice we're warned to avoid.

OF

 

[BLAZING OG]

These are my last AW's out of maybe 10 that I had purchased ( a couple 18650's & the rest 18350's).
Purchased THE 2 ON THE LEFT about 4-5 months ago from Lighthound FWIW.
The two on the left I used stacked (married till death) both from lighthound, the one single on the right I bought from a ecig vape website (reputable) I JUST CANT REMEMBER THE WEBSITE!!!
Exactly the same cells, The one on the right I use as a single 18350 in a mod.
@Caligula hope this helps!

 

[Caligula]

Well it was only 10 bucks. Lets just chalk the cost up to science!

 

[Zookeeper]

Everything is counterfeited these days. Half of Amazon is knockoff. Almost bought a fake Goodyear airhose off their. Who woulda thought? Praise the amazon review system.

 

[Lumenic]

Batteries are easy to fake and hard to identify, however if you own a good charger with multi protection features, it will be safer even using fake battery. 3 simple life-saving tips to spot fake chargers:

1. Source charger from a reputable vendor (such as vaporlifeusa, empirevape etc.)
2. Choose those good brand coming with a VALIDATION CODE (heard that all Nitecore chargers now is equipped with the CODE)
3. Be aware of the grammer & spelling on the package, here is an example: http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...it-nitecore-d4-digi-charger-updated-28042015/

 

[Soflo]

Quick question. Does anyone make a charger for 18350/18650 that tell the mAh that is put back into the batteries? In the RC world this is the only way to know the state of your batteries.
I use a hitec x4. It allows you to adjust the charge rate. See the mAh put back into the battery, and the voltage of the battery from dead to charged.

 

[DieHard]

Quick question. Does anyone make a charger for 18350/18650 that tell the mAh that is put back into the batteries? In the RC world this is the only way to know the state of your batteries.
I use a hitec x4. It allows you to adjust the charge rate. See the mAh put back into the battery, and the voltage of the battery from dead to charged.

My Nitecore D2 (2 bay)displays battery type, voltage, charge time, and charge current. Costs < $20 on Amazon. They also have a 4 bay charger.

 

[OF]

Quick question. Does anyone make a charger for 18350/18650 that tell the mAh that is put back into the batteries? In the RC world this is the only way to know the state of your batteries.
I use a hitec x4. It allows you to adjust the charge rate. See the mAh put back into the battery, and the voltage of the battery from dead to charged.

Not that I know of, nor IMO is it likely. For sure not from say Panasonic, Sony or other makers. To do so would invite a tidal wave of 'my XXXXmAh batteries only hold YYYYmAh now' troubles. A can of worms best left unopened from their perspective.

Some makers (Nitecore comes to mind) offer '% of charge' meters based on voltage but you have to know your battery's 'curves' awfully well to make that very accurate in predicting actual current.

FWIW I got curious about this and cobbled up a couple 'current integrators' (a device that checks and adds in the current at regular antivirals) to measure this from one of these type USB testers:
http://www.dx.com/p/lcd-display-usb...ter-capacity-tester-white-315314#.VXdmMMnSO9I

You have to hack in and isolate some stuff so the current to run the device isn't included in the total, or just subtract the nominal current (30mA IIRC). Neat thing, 10 memories (stores when not powered), displays in 10mA steps but keeps a running total in one mA steps.

Here's a video of it in it's normal role:

OF

 

[CentiZen]

It's pretty uncommon for consumer grade battery chargers to have any reliable charging measurements. The only one I can think off of the top of my head is the Maha/PowerEx WizardOne, which is only for AA sized NiMH/NiCD cells. The next step up is to get something like the Hitech X4 or Turnigy Accucel, which are meant for RC use and for experts.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

just noticed this thread and wanted to mention suspect A123Systems 18650s on ebay ... listed as 1100mAh, but i can only get about 10 minutes of run time, where as genuine A123Systems 26650s, rated at 2200mAh, deliver 90 minutes of run time. really pisses me off.

 

[1_gr8_underdog]

Xtar vc2/vc4 or the nitecore d2/ d4. Though they both offer a mah in reading, I prefer the xtar over nitecore. The xtar can charge D size Ni-Mh batteries that I use in my flashlight. Also it automaticly recognizes all battery types without any buttons to hold or press like the nightcore. Manufacture link.

For 18650 batteries, I choose to use efest 18650's. I know these are chinese cells. But they are the only manufacture I am aware of that uses a anti-counterfit stickers with verification via the website.

 

[Soflo]

It's pretty uncommon for consumer grade battery chargers to have any reliable charging measurements. The only one I can think off of the top of my head is the Maha/PowerEx WizardOne, which is only for AA sized NiMH/NiCD cells. The next step up is to get something like the Hitech X4 or Turnigy Accucel, which are meant for RC use and for experts.

Haha the hitec x4 is hardly for experts lol! Actually that is exactly what I am looking for in a charger, capable of 18350/18650. I wonder if you could get a battery "sled" and attach it to the hitec charger and get actual mAh back into the battery? Just might have a new project on my hands

That xtar looks like exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks guys!

 

[CentiZen]

Haha the hitec x4 is hardly for experts lol!

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that; I would never recommend either of these devices to a person who did not already have a knowledge of batteries and electronics. If you feel comfortable with this, by all means get one, they are great. But you can really fuck up your batteries if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[Joel W.]

I wish I had read this thread a while back. Like the OP, I picked up a lot of AW's 18650's from the ebay a while back and I have not had a single issue with them in any of my rigs until I got the flashvape this last weekend. Only the 2 AW batteries that I received from w9tech months back will actually fire the FV for more than 2-3 seconds. w9's Legit AW will fire 2-3 bowls.. All the rest of my ebay 18650's must be counterfeit.

Live and learn I guess.

edit: I just realized the FV is sub ohm and draws near 9 amps.. It's all making sense now...

 

[Soflo]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that; I would never recommend either of these devices to a person who did not already have a knowledge of batteries and electronics. If you feel comfortable with this, by all means get one, they are great. But you can really fuck up your batteries if you don't know what you are doing.

I'm pretty sure the only way to fuck up a battery with this charger is to set the amp rate too high. But it's only a 1a charger to begin with. The only fucking up that's going to happen is your Battery life will be shorter. I ordered the xtar 4. Thanks for the advice.