coughing

[Troi]

coughing up phlegm is a good thing. if you stop coughing it up its bad.
i just read up on the cillia. i was under the impression that after smoking for a while you pretty much kill them off. from what i read though this does happen but sounds like it takes a lot. and if you do damage them to that point your in real troble because they dont do there job any more and stop moving and clearing irritants and particals and crap out of your lungs. by moving phlegm to the upper parts of your pipes enabling you to hack the stuff out. if you stop being able to hack stuff out in the phelgm then serious problems can start chronic obstructed pulminary disease. copd, emphysema, cancer all that bad stuff. so coughing out stuff in phlegm is good. i read that even after as little as 3 days after quitting smoking your cillia start to work much better i guess so long as you havent damaged them beyond repair. i never was a big tobacco smoker although i have smoke cigs. but i dont think i smoked enough to permently kill them. they say pot smoke isint as bad as tobacco smoke.
for my sake i hope thats right. but im not tottaly convinced on that either. anyway to make a longer story shorter.
i just wanted to get to the bottom of the fact that i was experiencing more discomfort through vapor then smoke and that alarmed me. as to wanting to make sure that i infact was doing something better for my health but switching from smoking to vaping. i noticed i was seeing other people wondering simalar questions about simalar experiences so in conclusion maybe i cough less from the smoke because it is actually paralyizing my cillia which in turn stops the coughing untill they wake up again [sort of]. maybe when vaping the cillia are not paralyzed and the irritant from the inhaled vapor makes them do there job and hack that stuff out. in that case its all good i think. but what if its not just that is there any proof that the tars and thc in they vapor dont paralyze the cilla too? and or damage them.
and if this was a problem with inhaling dry air more then anything else. what will long term inhaling dry air on a regular bases do. mybe dry and srival out your cillia or avileio. i guess these questions would be best asked to a doctor. are ther any pot head docs hear lol? anyway i also emailed mflb. and they sent me a very good reply. and im very impressed with them getting back to me in a promt and professional manner. i tried to copy and paste it here but it didnt work any way they suggested to try not using to draw straw at all turns out the smaller diameter of the straw causes a bit of a jet stream of dry or hot vapor in the back of the throat they suggest trying it with out the draw straw so as to eliminate this jet stream so i will try this and see what happens.

The bottom line is; your are not doing your lungs right when you inhale anything but air. Vapor is a very healthy form to inhale medication, however you are entering a foriegn contaminant that is not natural to the lungs design. The good news is that since its thc, most of it will be absorbed, with water filtration and quality vaporization devices the level of contaminate to the lungs is significantly reduced. Furthermore our lungs are contaminated all the time because we live in an industrial society, the air we breath is not pure more then likeley dependent on where you live. If you want to ensure that your lungs are not being damaged at all then the only course is to completley cease introducing anything into them other then air.

However vaporizing really redces a lot of the problematic harm caused by smoke, and due to the expectorant effect like isaid its good to cough up phegelem, it helps your lungs do so. I was once a heavy medical smoker, and on xrays my lungs were showing black signs, that was 2 years, ago, I've since then have had 2 xrays and both show clear lungs, that the radiologist even went to note "no signs of contaminant" I think its safe to safe vaporizing is okay, but with everything in life, the healthiest option is moderation and being aware of how your going about it, and understanding how your body reacts. Our bodies are designed to recover, and maybe you need to vaporize less chronically and you'll find less discomfort. The mroe chronic the vaporization in my opinion the more irritation one notices.

I completely understand where your coming from as even though my lungs have been given a clean bill of health, mine are very sensitive to vaporizing too. I've found that lower temperatures, taking it in between my hits, like not taking a draw from my cloud for at least once every 5 minutes I've noticed i get more out of the medication and tax my lungs less.

 

[YoGranMazPimp]

Im was a big time combuster and since switching to vaping i do cough less after hits but i think my issue is by taking too big of hits and then its cough city. I try to get the perfect volume hits for myself that can be held comfortably and no cough after. I choose smaller, lower volume glass pieces as well for this reason. Sometimes i purposely give myself a cougher cause after the coughing settles im blazed like none other.

 

[djonkoman]

yes coughing up plegm is good if there is crap in your lungs, but even better when you don't have to since there is no crap to be removed. and in my case I think the latter is the case, I've never coughed up plegm(well except when having a cold maybe, and then it's not as much coughing)
probably because I don't smoke tobacco(and never regularly did it), and never was a big combuster. I do still ocassionally combust, but before vaping I only smoked once a week(+some special ocassions)
so I probably never build up the crap in my lungs wich some others here may have from years of regular combustion

 

[chris 71]

well im trying the no stem thing on the mflb. this is my third day of no combusting. gonna see if the cough does calm down after a bit of no smoking and just vaping. i also have spent a lot of time around a lot of dust working as a drywaller lots of dusty job sites and what not. also im an avid wood carver lots of dust there too. mind you i do were a dust mask when needed. i have had a few chest xrays in the last couple years for pain but they always come back lungs look fine and ends up being neve type pain so pretty sure my lungs arent too bad. but vapor i still think makes me cough more then smoke. like i said though that could be do to paralyzed cillia because of the smoke. i will see how it goes just vaping for a while without the smoke. i could and should try and maybe cut down a bit anyway as well.

 

[Darth Vapor]

Hello, Im new to this forum and I recently transitioned from smoking heavily to vaporizing. I love the taste of vapor, but when I hit the bag really hard, or rip the bong moderately hard (I have an Extreme-Q) at 192C Ill cough on almost every hit. I also have an "old school" brass MZ with a 13.5 volt transformer-both it and the 12v have made me cough hard. Sometimes so hard that I cough up clear phlegm with spots of green, depending on how often I smoke-usually only twice a week.

Since I quit smoking, I've been coughing during the daytime just like coworkers who gave up cigarettes for Lent. Smoke, although technically an irritant to the throat, is a familiar irritant. By changing our routine our bodies are reacting and like vapevoice said, the lungs will need help moving tars and shit from the corners of our pulmonary passages. This sweeping requires deep coughs.

But that is only a contributing factor; vapor instigates the coughing so surly THC's expectorant quality plays a role. I tried to cool the vapor with water but even small bong hits made me cough. However, I have lately come to tolerate large hits without coughing- and I've read accounts of this occurring to members of this site as well. Could this be due to an increased tolerance to dry, hot vapor or an increased tolerance to the expectorant effect of THC?

 

[chris 71]

well i am still experimating with my mflb, hoping and wishing i could see it as a healthier choice then smoking, i run it through a bong and still if i do say four trenches a day and just little ones at that. it tastes great and wouldnt say i am coughing the instant i take in the vapor, but im really hearing a lot of unwanted rattles and sounds and feelings from my throat, lungs and bronc tubes . i am now switching back to smoking and after just two days im noticing a difference, breathing is much better.
i really just dont get i know my teqnice is good so its not that. i dont brun or even scorch it. im thinking there is something about the vapor prosess that maybe we dont fully understand that really is not good for the lungs. and the way it feels to me would suggest possiaby even worse then smoking i read something hear about amonia and how for some reason you get more from vaping then smoking something about it going up in the end stream when combusting. and when they did the studies on vaping they only looked for certain things in the vapor. i really want to belive but its not working out for me. i wonder if i invested in a more exspencive vaporizer if it would make a difference but would really suck if i spent a couple or few hundred bucks only to find the same thing.

 

[dannkk]

Well, I'm sure part of your problem is the device you're using. As far as clean, smooth vapor hits, I'm pretty sure the MFLB is going to be pretty low on the list. It's not really meant to be your goto vape. It's meant for portability. Anything with that short of a vapor path, will give harsh/dry hits. I haven't used the MFLB, but I've bought stuff like the VG and VG glass, and the same would happen to me.

If you could afford to get something like the Q or Cloud and a nice percolator tube that you can add ice into, that's about the easiest hit you'll get...you can still choke your nuts off on it, but if you're conservative, it's like breathing air. Even when I do cough off it, it's different...it sucks for a few minutes, but it doesn't linger like smoke, cuz my throught didn't get burned. That's like 300 bucks altogether, though, and that's buying a cheap tube.

In the meantime...try using a very fast draw on your MFLB. The slower you draw, the longer the air stays in the chamber, and the more it heats up. This goes for any vape. A faster draw will give your cooler, more whispy vapor.

 

[ll11]

I wouldn't give up on vapor completely without trying a different vaporizer. The gn0me is cheap ($50 or under depending on the model), has nothing but glass in the air path (and since you heat the outside you're not inhaling lighter exhaust), and can easily be used with bongs. The gn0me thread here should have all the information you need if you're interested in learning more.

 

[sessnet]

well i am still experimating with my mflb, hoping and wishing i could see it as a healthier choice then smoking, i run it through a bong and still if i do say four trenches a day and just little ones at that. it tastes great and wouldnt say i am coughing the instant i take in the vapor, but im really hearing a lot of unwanted rattles and sounds and feelings from my throat, lungs and bronc tubes . i am now switching back to smoking and after just two days im noticing a difference, breathing is much better.
i really just dont get i know my teqnice is good so its not that. i dont brun or even scorch it. im thinking there is something about the vapor prosess that maybe we dont fully understand that really is not good for the lungs. and the way it feels to me would suggest possiaby even worse then smoking i read something hear about amonia and how for some reason you get more from vaping then smoking something about it going up in the end stream when combusting. and when they did the studies on vaping they only looked for certain things in the vapor. i really want to belive but its not working out for me. i wonder if i invested in a more exspencive vaporizer if it would make a difference but would really suck if i spent a couple or few hundred bucks only to find the same thing.

Your story sounds exactly like mine, about 5 months ago. Then I got a Solo. A little less coughing, or maybe, I was used to it by that time? Then I invested in some water filtration. Now my coughing isn't anywhere close to what it was, and less than when I smoke (almost none).

I battled through a few months of HORRIBLE coughing with the MFLB. I tried the whip, PA, just about anything I could try. I couldn't use it comfortably. That's probably why I haven't touched my MFLB for 3+ months now. I would say the culprit is the MFLB, somehow, not the vapor. But that is from my own experience, only.

 

[pakalolo]

When you say something like this:

I haven't used the MFLB...

You should never say something like this:

Well, I'm sure part of your problem is the device you're using. As far as clean, smooth vapor hits, I'm pretty sure the MFLB is going to be pretty low on the list. It's not really meant to be your goto vape. It's meant for portability.

Or worse, this:

In the meantime...try using a very fast draw on your MFLB.

This advice guarantees no vapour. The reason it takes practice to get your MFLB technique right is that drawing too fast cools it down too much, so a "very fast draw" is simply wrong. As for the MFLB not being a go-to vapourizer, it is exactly that for me and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. It was that way even before I got the Power Adapter, which takes the MLFB to another level completely.

 

[dannkk]

snip

Read their site. Even they say the MFLB isn't designed to be the best vape for every situation. You also can't try to tell me that a MFLB, with that short ass vapor path, is going to give you cleaner, cooler vapor than a glass on glass, whip style vape. My advice about using a fast draw isn't off base either. If you're drawing to fast to get vapor, that's pretty damn obvious. He talked of using a puffing method, which will be very slow, and create hot, thick vapor. Go ahead and tell him to slow down. Try being a dick when I'm wrong.

mod note: Flaming isn't tolerated here. Please review the rules.

 

[chris 71]

my vapor path is just about perfect not to long to loose much, and not to short for it to be harsh. im using airline tubing attached to the stem provided and like i said through an all glass bong. right after posting this yesterday i read about the thread about the wax build up im thinking thats probably the problem maybe also just too much of a good thing think i might try a breck for a bit and then maybe try it again thanks for all the advice. wish they would do more studies and legalize it!!

 

[pakalolo]

Read their site. Even they say the MFLB isn't designed to be the best vape for every situation. You also can't try to tell me that a MFLB, with that short ass vapor path, is going to give you cleaner, cooler vapor than a glass on glass, whip style vape. My advice about using a fast draw isn't off base either. If you're drawing to fast to get vapor, that's pretty damn obvious. He talked of using a puffing method, which will be very slow, and create hot, thick vapor. Go ahead and tell him to slow down. Try being a dick when I'm wrong.

First of all, what's on the Magic-Flight site is a re-formatted copy of the Vaporpedia entry that I put together. Second, just because it says the MFLB isn't for every situation doesn't mean it can't be someone's "go-to" vapourizer, because as I said, it is exactly that for me and lots of others. Third, I said nothing about the MFLB giving cleaner cooler vapour, that's a red herring you threw in there. Fourth, you said, and I quote, "very fast" (my emphasis) and that is what I objected to because it is flat out wrong and won't work.

Finally, and I can't emphasize this enough, you are giving opinions and bad advice about a vapourizer you say you've never used. You can't get much more wrong than that.

 

[sessnet]

my vapor path is just about perfect not to long to loose much, and not to short for it to be harsh. im using airline tubing attached to the stem provided and like i said through an all glass bong. right after posting this yesterday i read about the thread about the wax build up im thinking thats probably the problem maybe also just too much of a good thing think i might try a breck for a bit and then maybe try it again thanks for all the advice. wish they would do more studies and legalize it!!

One thing I realized with the MFLB - it is WAY too easy to overdo it. I saw myself tending to putting a lot in the trench. More each time

Try using less each time...or...instead of completely denying yourself one day, try only a tiny bit! A tiny bit, and wait like 15 minutes. You might be surprised how little you need, and can really get away with!

The less you use, the less vapor, and the less cough. It is worth a shot!

Good luck with whatever you try, and I hope you come back soon with some good stories to share with us!

 

[sal69]

I would also recommend to try a different vape. I also own a MFLB and it is a rather complicated device. You need to get the technique right, i regularly fail at that =). I don't use it as a daily driver since i also use a volcano, so for me its portable only. But i have to work hard with the MFLB to get as high as one volcano bag gets me ... Thats due to bad technique and i maybe used it for like 20 trenches so i lack experience.
But thats my point, you need to be experienced in order to achieve great results with the MFLB. Get something simpler, i consider the volcano one of the simplest ones but there are other alternatives.

Also with the cano i need to take special care about the temperature. I usually fill the first bag with 170-175° and then add 10° each bag. If i start right at i.e. 190° -> cough like hell. But 170° is very smooth, no need for water-filtration there, and also the subsequent bags aver smooth using this technique. So i also think as stated before that the vapor you inhale is too intense for your lungs and you should stretch it more, if you use a bong inhale shorter maybe this will help. But its also about temp-control and thats a hard thing to do with the MFLB.

Did you stop smoking recently? Because this will make you cough more and also make your throat more sensitive in the beginning of the process. Maybe read an article about all the effects that come from stopping smoking alone, because they are plenty ....

 

[VapeVoice]

I would like to add that smoking kills your cilia in your lungs. When you start vaporizing and stop smoking the cilia come back to life and start to move all that junk out of your lungs. This is why you are hearing and feeling things in your lungs. When I met my fiance 3 years ago I had been an every day heavy smoker for 20 years. Until 3 months ago she could not listen to my lungs with her stethoscope without hearing a bunch of garbage. Sometimes so bad that she would cry thinking that she was going to lose me at an early age due to my inability to quit smoking herb. Well I switched full time to vaping over 3 months ago and I feel incredible. 1 month after I started she listened to my lungs and they are clear. Still clear and still feeling better than I have in the last 5 years. So I would suggest to PLEASE stick with vaping until you find the piece of equipment and technique that works for you. We and your family want you around

 

[darkrom]

IME the MFLB is a great vape but after a year+ of using it the amount of vapor I needed to feel medicated was enough to irritate my throat every time. The conduction + shorter air path perhaps is why the MFLB in particular started bugging me. Perhaps it is best suited for people who can take a couple quick hits and then be done, not someone like you or me who has combusted for a very long time and probably have a good tolerance. The 2 biggest factors to fixing this IMO are longer air path and water filtration. The MFLB is not really ideal for water filtration in my opinion though. It works but I'd rather use something else in that situation.

 

[dannkk]

First of all, what's on the Magic-Flight site is a re-formatted copy of the Vaporpedia entry that I put together. Second, just because it says the MFLB isn't for every situation doesn't mean it can't be someone's "go-to" vapourizer, because as I said, it is exactly that for me and lots of others. Third, I said nothing about the MFLB giving cleaner cooler vapour, that's a red herring you threw in there. Fourth, you said, and I quote, "very fast" (my emphasis) and that is what I objected to because it is flat out wrong and won't work.

Finally, and I can't emphasize this enough, you are giving opinions and bad advice about a vapourizer you say you've never used. You can't get much more wrong than that.

Think how you will. My advice was good. So sorry I typed "very fast" instead of "faster."

 

[sunsett70]

god of life, i know how it feels . i got the dbv for years but mainly smoke a lot of joints (weed/tobacco mixed 50/50). when i got a log vape about 2-3 weeks back, i basically stopped combusting and just vaped cause the 'dog was running real good . oh man, it was then i got the running nose & cough, out came the thin plehgm, thick phelgm and what nots . but at least good thing is my body was 'repairing' itself. have experienced it before during my previous quit smoking campaigns and notice similar traits in some smoker friends of mine (but not all).

that was a few days back and i am almost 83% recovered. did not take mj during that time. I just vaped a few mins ago (just a tiny bit, but on a log vape, whew, i get silly sometimes) got my nose running a bit but 5-10 mins later it is ok alread, i can breathe normally. must remember to hydrate so to help the repair process along.

p/s - think this came at a good time as i need to 'clean' my mind too.

 

[chris 71]

well im still switching back and forth between smoking and vaping with the mflb, experimenting. seeing how i feel after each. i am starting to feel a little better with the vaping.

i got a nice glass bong with an ash catcher bubbler and a water chamber bubbler , and another chamber above that with a defuser. i put a grommet in the pipe which the wip attachment for the mflb fits into perfectly. it worked real good and was soo smooth. only problem was i havent really smoked much through a bong before, just a couple real cheap basic bongs i have tried over the years. but basicly i was a joint smoker.

well i coudnt resist the temptation to try some smoke through it. and it was real nice. tastes real good and smooth liked it alot but... i still want to get away from the smoking. but like i said earlier i have been smoking since my early teens. so its easier said then done.

anyways after a few days smoking through it i really do think that the smoking is harder on my lungs then the vaping. as mentioned before in this thread maybe a bit of pshycosamatic stuff goin on there too.

so anyway i thought i should maybe go talk to the doctor about it. my chest was feeling the effects of the smoking the last few days. i told him start out that i had stated smoking mj at an early age. and pretty much a daily smoker.

he listened to my chest and said it sounded clear. and sent me for an x ray. results in a couple days.
i asked him what his thoughts on smoking mj were and if he knew anything about vaping. he said not as bad a cig smoke, and from what he had read vaping it was a safe alternitive.

all stuff everybody already knew hear already i know. but sometimes its nice to hear it for yourself from a proffesional.

so anyway i just orderd a solo from plant vap with the attachment to hook up too the bong. hopfully i get it tommorrow. and hopefully the x ray is fine i have been around a lot of construction dust over the years too.

and the main reason i want to vap and leave behind the smoke is for my health. i mean you can only smoke for soo long without wondering what all that crap must look like inside your lungs.

i do have a grandmother who lived to 90 chain smoke since she was about 20. soo who knows hopefully i got some of her genetics

 

[VapeVoice]

Do what I did. Throw away all your smoking utensils and go Vape only. I will admit that I couldn't do that with the MFLB but, once I got the Solo, it was easy. I know a lot of people like the MFLB. But, IMHO, if you are trying to stop smoking get yourself a heavier hitter. If you want portable i recommend the solo. Once you make the switch I bet you want a home unit to. And I would recommend the HA or DBV. Good luck in quitting!!

 

[jeffp]

I'm just beginning to open up to the MFLB and after I got the skill down, I do really enjoy it. I do not find the vapor from the LB particularly harsh compared with other units. In fact I find that I hardly cough at all when using it. "Sipping tea" is the inhalation method I use, slow and steady and above all easy.
It's great for certain situations but I'm still not fully comfortable using it outside unilaterally. It's stealth but not more stealth than a joint, in fact less so, except for the smell. Under the right circumstances it is ideal, though.

 

[pakalolo]

It's stealth but not more stealth than a joint, in fact less so, except for the smell.

That's a pretty big "except" you got there. Smell aside, however, I'm curious how you reached that conclusion. On numerous occasions I have hit the LB with it completely hidden in my hand in such a manner that it looks like I was covering a yawn. If I'm sitting down, it'll usually look like I'm just resting my chin. I want to emphasize that I've done this in front of people who knew I would hit my LB at some point, but who never noticed until I mentioned it. As of now I have been caught only twice, both times by bloodhound noses and nothing to do with noticing I was doing something suspicious. Supposing you did have an odourless joint, which you don't, I don't believe that there is any way you could get away with this.

OB topic: a dead giveaway, however, would be coughing.

 

[jeffp]

You're right, of course - the smell is a very big "except." Perhaps it is just paranoia on my part but when I'm walking down the city street with the LB in my hand it seems almost obvious to me that others can figure out what I'm doing - that it can't be that discreet.

 

[chris 71]

ok so i got my solo last friday the day after i went to the doc. love it, using a nice water tool. its soo nice, no coughing at all!! very smooth.
i have been using it 4 maybe 5 or even six times a day since getting it and my lungs feel fine. now here is the kicker, i got a call from the clinic today right after actully taking a couple puffs of a joint, first time i combusted in like a week and a half, not sure why i decide to smoke but anyway...
so the nurse tells me my x ray shows early signs of copd and cronic bronchitis. going back to talk to the doc tommorow. anyway hear is a strange little twist my girlfriend has all kinds of breathing problems her whole life. she moved in with me a year and a half ago she has very bad asthma and after having a bunch of attacks, real bad ones, requiring her to be hospitalized. they say she has copd and is taking all kinds of meds she used to smoke cigs but not mj.
i have never even used a puffer in my life, i can bounce the peek flow meater reader thing right of the other side, hold my breath for all most a min and a half. had a x ray a year and a bit ago and said my lungs were fine. heres the twist
last summer we removed our kitchen floor tiles and there was black mold. bleached it and put down new tiles bout six months latter we discovered black mold growing in our bedroom closet cleanded that up. but the bathroom has had broken and leaking fashets for quite some time i cringe to imagine the mold growing behind the wall. so anyway i wonder what are the odds of two people living together both showing sings of copd at age 40, we did both smoke in our lifes but from what i have read forty is kinda young. anyway will talk to doc tommorow any one hear have copd