Consider New Technology - Pyrolysis is sweet spot between vape and combustion

This new patent pending technology is in need of an entrepreneur to get this thing to the public. Please comment.


HERB PYROLYSIS

Outperforms both Combustion and Vaporization​







Seasoned consumers have long known that the ensemble effect from smoking cannabis/hemp flower buds is unbeatable, but health concerns have driven some to try dry herb vaporizers as an alternative. While the best of the commercially available dry herb vaporizers (e.g., Volcano, FireFly, DynaVap, etc.) have seen considerable success and do perform, they all produce excessive waste, in that the used brown residue from these devices includes substantial cannabinoids. The answer to this problem is pyrolysis, which savvy consumers will quickly discover lies in the sweet spot between vaporization and combustion. Pyrolysis means that all of the compounds worth consuming are gasified at extreme temperatures in an oxygen starved mini oven. The gasified compounds are moved out of the mini oven, condensed into a cloud, and carried to the user’s lungs. The residue from pyrolysis is black biochar, which is neither ash nor brown matter. The ensemble effect possible only through pyrolysis may be superior to all other methods of consuming dried herb. There is now a patent pending personal pyrolysizer that delivers a true breakthrough in cannabis/hemp consumption technology.


Pyrolysis has all the advantages of combustion, but without the harmful smoke particulates and burnt carcinogens. Pyrolysis occurs at high temperatures ( >450F) where the dried herb would normally combust in air, but the herb cannot burn without oxygen. A mini oven containing the ground dried herb is starved of oxygen by displacing air out of the mini oven with water vapor (usually 10-12% of dried herb mass) and carbon dioxide, which is produced as rising temperatures decarboxylate cannabinoids in the dried herb. With inadequate oxygen, no combustion occurs, while higher temperatures cause essential plant oils to vaporize quickly and completely. When a user draws on a mouthpiece, fresh air bypasses the mini oven and carries the gasified cannabinoids and hundreds of other compounds out of the mini oven toward the mouthpiece. The bypass air quickly cools the gasified products from the mini oven into a familiar aerosol cloud that the user pulls into their lungs in a conventional manner. Pyrolysis has the potential to produce a superior, and previously unknown, cannabis/hemp experience.


There is little question that currently available dry herb vaporizers can produce tasty clouds of cannabinoids and terpenes, but a substantial portion of these valuable compounds never vaporize and become part of the brown matter waste from these devices. Limited heat transfer is the reason that less than all of the essential oil is vaporized. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to transform a liquid into a gas, and heated air is a poor means of transferring heat to the essential oil in the dried herb. Commercial vaporizers also must operate at lower temperatures to avoid combustion, thus undermining the synergism associated with the ensemble effect. Pyrolysis, on the other hand, relies upon conductive and radiant heat transfer to efficiently vaporize a broader band of compounds present in the herb essential oil. Pyrolysis can inherently do everything and more than the best dry herb vaporizers, and do so without waste. Pyrolysis can also inherently equal the performance of combustion, but do so without harmful smoke. The proof is visible when one compares the carbon rich black biochar residue from pyrolysis to gray ash from combustion and the familiar browned herb residue from the best vaporizers.




Pyrolysis has long been known as one way to extract biofuel precursors from plant matter biomass on an industrial scale. Until now, no one has taught how to achieve effective pyrolysis at the relatively tiny scale associated with processing a personal quantity (e.g., 0.5gm) of dried herb. Efficient, tasty and complete extraction and consumption of essential oil from high quality dried herb is a standard only achievable through pyrolysis. Controlling the personal pyrolysizer introduced above may be accomplished by controlling the bypass air flow rate via a suction rate at the mouthpiece, and independently control a rate of heat transfer with appropriate positioning of a torch flame. More uniform heat transfer is maintained in the mini oven via a copper heat exchanger that isolates the dried herb from air and an extremely hot flame. The pyrolyzation process may be observed through a window, providing useful feedback to the user to adjust one or both of the bypass air flow rate via suction intensity at the mouthpiece, and heating intensity with the torch responsive to an aerosol cloud density visible through the window. Experience suggests that different users prefer pyrolysis at different temperatures and rates. The personal pyrolysizer permits a user to customize their own experience according to their own tastes and preferences. When the aerosol cloud density wanes in the window, the user recognizes that the process is complete, and the herb sample is exhausted. After cooling, biochar residue may be removed from the mini oven, which may then be reloaded with dry herb for another pyrolysis cycle.


Humans have long exploited pyrolysis in other ways. For instance, pyrolysis has been used to turn wood into charcoal since ancient times, often by using a smoldering fire in a closed pit packed with wood, as depicted above. As the wood heats, compounds in the wood turn to gases and are vented off. After a prolonged period, the gasified compounds are removed from the wood leaving behind valuable carbon rich black charcoal for heating and cooking. Charcoal is the same as biochar. Thus, humans have previous experience with pyrolysis, but with the new herb pyrolysis technology, the valuable thing is to capture and consume the gasified compounds, leaving the biochar as waste. In comparison, wood is to dried herb as charcoal is to biochar. Pyrolysis is a process that takes time, and the duration is often proportional to the mass being pyrolysized. In this way, herb pyrolysis is akin to cooking. Both can be done fast and hot or warm and slow, with drastically different results. The best heat transfer profile for herb pyrolysis remains unknown, but is likely a matter of taste with some preferring a multiple suction cycle lower temperature experience, while others prefer to consume the herb compounds fast and hot.

Still trying to figure out how to post image of device.
 

Perfect_Speed4069

I am the beetle in a box that only you can see
From direct experience Pyrolysis is absolutely possible (and repeatable) in TRWW Quartz Cap, Dani Fusion, and EMK, (and I think it's what's meant by RTL or ride the line). Your device looks very interesting too. With all 3 of my examples above, a very steady, thoughtful inhale is needed to prevent combustion, as well as significant experience with each device. What's your recommended intake technique with your device, or is it more forgiving than these others?

Also, What's the thing that looks like a screw cap made from and is it lined with anything?
 
From direct experience Pyrolysis is absolutely possible (and repeatable) in TRWW Quartz Cap, Dani Fusion, and EMK, (and I think it's what's meant by RTL or ride the line). Your device looks very interesting too. With all 3 of my examples above, a very steady, thoughtful inhale is needed to prevent combustion, as well as significant experience with each device. What's your recommended intake technique with your device, or is it more forgiving than these others?

Also, What's the thing that looks like a screw cap made from and is it lined with anything?
Glass and metal

Glass and metal
Heat from flame conducted to oven. No air thru oven so no combustion. Glad jar allows user to see cloud density and adjust suction rate or flame rate responsively

Suction creates a vacuum in glass chamber. Repeated small suctions. Brief vacuum cause brief lowering of oil boiling point
 

Radwin Bodnic

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@chlorophyll_man
I hope it'll come with the mandatory vacuum pump to remove the oxygen from the equation !

From direct experience Pyrolysis is absolutely possible (and repeatable) in TRWW Quartz Cap, Dani Fusion, and EMK, (and I think it's what's meant by RTL or ride the line).
Isn't that just charring ?

@Herb Pyrolysis
First question : is it an april fools ?

If it's not :
Heat from flame conducted to oven. No air thru oven so no combustion.
Can you explain how you manage to remove the oxygen from the oven ?
Do you need a vacuum pump to operate the device ?

Another question : being able to draw on this device means there's an air intake. I know from experience that sucking on a pipe with a closed end doesn't work. The aerosol / smoke should be able to escape the bowl to reach the airflow. So you need holes between the oven and the airpath. How do you prevent the air from reaching the oven ? Is there a valve ?

According to Wikipedia :
Pyrolysis is a process involving the separation of covalent bonds in organic matter by thermal decomposition within an inert environment without oxygen.
I have a pretty clear understanding of organic chemistry. Separation of covalent bonds mean that you're breaking down molecules into smaller molecules. If I look at the cannabinoids, and plant matter molecules, I see a lot of chance that CO (amongst other funky stuff) would be a sub product of the pyrolysis.

Last question : how's the taste ? Terpenes and flavonoids would degrade pretty early : before reaching pyrolysis temperature. So either you don't get them (and don't get the entourage and biochemical effects that come with them), or you under heat the device to get the taste and basically end up vaporizing instead of pyrolising.

BTW, if this thing really creates a vacuum, we may finally be able to use that damn chart !
 
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2tiki

Well-Known Member
I recommend putting up a video of it in use ASAP or you are going to probably run into a lot of people doubting what you are saying. Too many people hop on this forum and over hype stuff. The best way to show you aren't doing that is to show the device in use.

Also, if there is no air in it, as you said, how can people suck air out of it to get the vapor? Surely air would need to keep going into the chambers.

If part of the mechanism is the "sucking force" of someone using it, have you tested to see if that force has any negative impact on the person using it? Such as, can your lip get stuck, sucked onto the end while you use it?

Is that a metal in the oven, copper? It looks like it. There are conflicting opinions as to weather it's safe to breath in hot copper, so that may hurt your sales.
 

Grass Yes

Yes
Staff member
I also assumed this was a joke, but it has a long build up if it is. This article is from 2022, about a month before OP's account was created:

As you can see most of the images and text as from that article or the same source. The article itself is a paid placement with the author named "Herb Pyrolysis".
 
@chlorophyll_man
I hope it'll come with the mandatory vacuum pump to remove the oxygen from the equation !


Isn't that just charring ?

@Herb Pyrolysis
First question : is it an april fools ?

If it's not :
Can you explain how you manage to remove the oxygen from the oven ?
Do you need a vacuum pump to operate the device ?

Another question : being able to draw on this device means there's an air intake. I know from experience that sucking on a pipe with a closed end doesn't work. The aerosol / smoke should be able to escape the bowl to reach the airflow. So you need holes between the oven and the airpath. How do you prevent the air from reaching the oven ? Is there a valve ?

According to Wikipedia :

I have a pretty clear understanding of organic chemistry. Separation of covalent bonds mean that you're breaking down molecules into smaller molecules. If I look at the cannabinoids, and plant matter molecules, I see a lot of chance that CO (amongst other funky stuff) would be a sub product of the pyrolysis.

Last question : how's the taste ? Terpenes and flavonoids would degrade pretty early : before reaching pyrolysis temperature. So either you don't get them (and don't get the entourage and biochemical effects that come with them), or you under heat the device to get the taste and basically end up vaporizing instead of pyrolising.

BTW, if this thing really creates a vacuum, we may finally be able to use that damn chart !
Consider rereading the original post, study up on the concept of pyrolysis, understand phase changes in molecules, and show a bit of curiosity and humility

Is it April 1st? Ha. Poisson d'Avril. Never could stand that Eduard de Den
No joke. See if you can find the published patent application, then consider an intelligent question
 

bellona0544

Well-Known Member
Consider rereading the original post, study up on the concept of pyrolysis, understand phase changes in molecules, and show a bit of curiosity and humility
So again, do you have any videos of the device in action? You've come in with some bold claims that I am not nearly educated enough in organic chemistry to understand, and you have people in this thread demonstrating knowledge that contradicts your claims. It is on the claimant to prove their case, and that means you have to back up your claims with evidence.

Edit: also, please refrain from double-posting. You can edit a post and add additional information. Please read the forum rules.
 
I recommend putting up a video of it in use ASAP or you are going to probably run into a lot of people doubting what you are saying. Too many people hop on this forum and over hype stuff. The best way to show you aren't doing that is to show the device in use.

Also, if there is no air in it, as you said, how can people suck air out of it to get the vapor? Surely air would need to keep going into the chambers.

If part of the mechanism is the "sucking force" of someone using it, have you tested to see if that force has any negative impact on the person using it? Such as, can your lip get stuck, sucked onto the end while you use it?

Is that a metal in the oven, copper? It looks like it. There are conflicting opinions as to weather it's safe to breath in hot copper, so that may hurt your sales.
Bypass air enters glass jar past less-than-tight aluminum lid. No air ever enters the oven containing the herb, which is a closed chamber except for small orifice opening into glass jar. Suction at mouthpiece moves small amount of bypass air past lid, thru jar and into mouthpiece. This action creates a slight vacuum in the glass jar. Flame on outside of device conducts heat to oven containing the herb. When temperature reaches boiling point of oil, it becomes a gas that exits the oven into the glass jar to be carried with the bypass air to the mouthpiece.

Air does not enter the oven. No Oxygen in the oven as O2 displaced from oven by water vapor from herb and CO2 from herb decarboxylating during heat up. Slight vacuum responsive to sucking at mouthpiece encourages transformation of oil to gas by temporarily lowering its boiling point which is a function of temperature and pressure. That is why things boil at lower temps at altitude.

Nothing, except silver, can match copper's heat conductivity, and it it is totally safe as having been used in cookware for many many decades.
 
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Herb Pyrolysis,

Perfect_Speed4069

I am the beetle in a box that only you can see
No joke. See if you can find the published patent application, then consider an intelligent question
Steady on. So far my questions have been nothing but respectful and open minded. If you consider them stupid or asinine, check yourself. Or maybe you got a thing for Flemish Poets. In which case, apologies
 

Radwin Bodnic

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Consider rereading the original post, study up on the concept of pyrolysis, understand phase changes in molecules, and show a bit of curiosity and humility


No joke. See if you can find the published patent application, then consider an intelligent question

Consider engaging with this forum in a gently manner otherwise there's going to be some friction.

I think my post was in a pretty good mood for a first of April and showed quite some curiosity, sadly prematurely buried by your answer.

I'il keep eating my steak very rare and tossing my ABV caramel. Bye.
 
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Radwin Bodnic,

chillAtGVC

Well-Known Member
It is an interesting concept to explore. This is not for me, but some may find it of interest. I am with @Radwin Bodnic I like flavour and I don't need to wring out every last bit of the active compounds.
 
chillAtGVC,
Consider engaging with this forum in a gently manner otherwise there's going to be some friction.

I think my post was in a pretty good mood for a first of April and showed quite some curiosity, sadly prematurely buried by your answer.

I'il keep eating my steak very rare and tossing my ABV caramel. Bye.
It is an interesting concept to explore. This is not for me, but some may find it of interest. I am with @Radwin Bodnic I like flavour and I don't need to wring out every last bit of the active compounds.
Flavor, meaning terpenes, is simply a matter of heating rate.
 
Herb Pyrolysis,

2tiki

Well-Known Member
Bypass air enters glass jar past less-than-tight aluminum lid. No air ever enters the oven containing the herb, which is a closed chamber except for small orifice opening into glass jar. Suction at mouthpiece moves small amount of bypass air past lid, thru jar and into mouthpiece. This action creates a slight vacuum in the glass jar. Flame on outside of device conducts heat to oven containing the herb. When temperature reaches boiling point of oil, it becomes a gas that exits the oven into the glass jar to be carried with the bypass air to the mouthpiece.

Air does not enter the oven. No Oxygen in the oven as O2 displaced from oven by water vapor from herb and CO2 from herb decarboxylating during heat up. Slight vacuum responsive to sucking at mouthpiece encourages transformation of oil to gas by temporarily lowering its boiling point which is a function of temperature and pressure. That is why things boil at lower temps at altitude.

Nothing, except silver, can match copper's heat conductivity, and it it is totally safe as having been used in cookware for many many decades.

So copper and aluminum. Hear that everyone? COPPER and ALUMINUM.

No one heats copper to over 200c and then puts their mouth next to it and breathes in the fumes. The fact that you don't see a difference makes me highly concerned for your ability to make a safe device. Also, TEFLON has been used in cookware for many decades...

Enjoy your flameout.
 
So copper and aluminum. Hear that everyone? COPPER and ALUMINUM.

No one heats copper to over 200c and then puts their mouth next to it and breathes in the fumes. The fact that you don't see a difference makes me highly concerned for your ability to make a safe device. Also, TEFLON has been used in cookware for many decades...

Enjoy your flameout.
You should get your health and safety information from a qualified source, which does not include this forum.

Also been done in the flower kettle her you are...
And Dr dabber switch was first.:tup:
Thank you for this. Yes, that looks to be pyrolysis. When did they first do this? If 2020 or before, the information could show that I am not entitled to a patent. Please comment.
 
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