Conduction Vapes Get Me Higher, You?

[.brew]

You did:



„Oxygen deprivation“ is yet another myth that makes no sense btw, at least I always remembered to breathe normally between hits.

Yet another example of your continual straw-manning this conversation.

It's obvious to anyone approaching this conversation in good-faith that I am not arguing smoke gets people high due to any psychoactive components in the smoke. Just like it's obvious I am not arguing people get high from holding their breath too long between tokes.

There is either a significant language barrier between us or you're being a gigantic troll--either way, this is my last response to you given that you can't participate in a good-faith conversation with me.

Smoking is just vaporizing anyway, except you are using the materials as your heat source and breathing the exhaust of burning plants.

It used to be that some of us would strive to not have any white exhale since that, at least it was believed at the time, indicated combustion. In the vriptech's instructions users were expected to lower the temp until we only had, at most, blue-ish exhale. I notice that users now tend to "milk" their hits similar to back in the smoking days. There seems to be more attempts to vape at increasingly hotter temps and get up to that edge as closely as possible before combusting...and I'm not certain everyone is as worried about inadvertently combusting as we used to be back in those early days where vaping at the lowest temps possible was almost universally recommended.

It's important to understand those earlier conversations were had within that context because it's likely we weren't obtaining full extraction, as you put it. That said, the conversations tended to be about the differences (some people were about the "more" of it--not all and I don't think even the majority) wherein it was often argued that convection was qualitatively "better" for various reasons (one of them being more cerebral, another being less prone to inadvertent combustion, etc.).

Convection vapes were engineered in response to the valid concern of inadvertantly combusting during conduction vaping so I don't understand how that became a debatable point in the conversation.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Convection vapes were engineered in response to the valid concern of inadvertantly combusting during conduction vaping so I don't understand how that became a debatable point in the conversation.

I think, likely because, today the modern conduction vapes are the ones with temp control and no combustion, at least those standard session conduction style are the most common? So that is usually what we think of when we think of conduction, no chance of combustion there, however a lot of modern pure convection on demand, does have the capability to combust at the higher settings, depending on how you draw and load, so I think a lot of, perhaps newer, members here think of convection as having more combustion risk and conduction being safer, generally? My perception at least!

 

[Dutch-Mic]

Convection vapes were engineered in response to the valid concern of inadvertantly combusting during conduction vaping so I don't understand how that became a debatable point in the conversation.

I do!

It started with you citing Greenleaf88 who agreed with Jill NYC that conduction does offer you a heavier head high more in line with combustion. You wrote that there are two main reasons for that:

1. Conduction often leads to harmful side effects of combustion, such as, smoke inhalation. Smoke inhalation will make one feel "high" purely as a function of CO2 rather than any psychoactive qualities of the smoke itself. That is, if you inhale enough smoke from an otherwise normal forest fire you will experience a "high" and/or forcing oneself into a hyperventilation state will also induce a "high" feeling.

and

2. People are remembering what it was like to be "high" in line with how they learned that state of being as a novice. It's not often I connect my professional background with my lifestyle choices but I'm going to give it a shot here

You clearly spent time and effort to illustrate your second point and it really deserves its own thread, because it's a very fascinating read. In this thread, however, in which forum members shared their perceived differences between conduction and convection highs and tried to find an explanation for those perceived differences, your first point is the most important one.
If you claim that conduction often leads to harmful side effects such as smoke inhalation (which would explain that conduction effects can be similar to smoking), then people such as myself would like to see that you support that claim with at least a few arguments, anecdotal evidence or - preferably - robust scientific evidence. If you can't do that then it would be great if you make clear your claim is a premise or a plausible hypothesis we can discuss about.

Edit: I do experience a language barrier, so please make clear if I missed a point or didn't understand something correctly!

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

I've been reading through this, and what I think is most important, is that vaping is a very personal experiencing.

This past week, I've been sticking to convection vapes as much as possible, for a number of reasons. I'm still having the odd session on conduction, but I have been trying to stick with convection.

Some strains of cannabis affect more than others; generally speaking. Every now and then though, a strain I don't normally care for, will either taste, or have some pleasurable effect. Maybe it is the mood I am in, maybe it is the day of the week, the point is, there are exceptions to patterns. I can't always predict the response.

I have had some good psychoactive effects from convection vapes this week. I haven't been blown over, but I have had some pleasurable experiences. The taste, the session, the unexplained thing that is vaping, it was pleasurable. I remind myself again, that this should be about the whole experience, not just the psychoactive effects.

That said, it is Friday and I decided to pull the Starry and bing the bong. Maybe it was conduction, maybe the cannabis, maybe because of the day of the week, but the session on the Starry has left my head spinning.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[.brew]

I think, likely because, today the modern conduction vapes are the ones with temp control and no combustion, at least those standard session conduction style are the most common?

I can wrap my mind around that perspective. If you check my post history you'll notice I only check in once in a while every few years. It may very well be true that I'm not aware of what is available on the market currently.

If you claim that conduction often leads to harmful side effects such as smoke inhalation (which would explain that conduction effects can be similar to smoking)

I'll try to be less verbose

The argument is not: conduction vaping = combustion = high off CO2

The argument is: if conduction vaping leads to combustion and harmful effects of combustion are interpreted as pleasurable then that could explain why some people report increased pleasure from their vaping methodology. A more nuanced argument is contained within it arguing that even things that seem (or mimic) any aspect of smoking (not solely limited to CO2--that was but one example) will result in those same feelings. The rest of that post is explaining how humans interpret arguably harmful behaviors as pleasurable.

I didn't develop the first point beyond obvious observations. It's only controversial if read as me claiming that conduction always leads to combustion and that people are only stoned due to how much CO2 was inadvertently inhaled along with their bud.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

if conduction vaping leads to combustion

I agree, and that is a big 'if'.

I run my Starry around 428. Even sitting at that temperature, there are no signs of combustion. Pulling massive volumes of air using a bong; there are no signs of combustion.

There might be something else, some other sort of chemistry at work, but I know that it is not combustion. I don't think it is CO2 related, but I honestly do not know.

The only thing I can think of is to load the Starry and use the bong again. I will let you know my thoughts after that.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[.brew]

I agree, and that is a big 'if'.

Pulling massive volumes of air using a bong; there are no signs of combustion.

There might be something else, some other sort of chemistry at work, but I know that it is not combustion. I don't think it is CO2 related, but I honestly do not know.

I definitely agree it's a big "if" and that's where I anticipated the conversation to center around rather than disputing whether CO2 does or doesn't make people high...since "CO2 gets people high" wasn't my point.

I can see that I handled that part of the conversation clumsily since you're still hung up on this notion of whether CO2 does or doesn't make someone more high. It seems no amount of clarification from me is being respected in this discussion for whatever reasons.

Drawing from your own anecdote, for example, I'd point out that both "massive volumes" of what you call "air" and using a "bong" are staples of smoking bud and have much more to do with your state of mind than any CO2 going into your body.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I'll try to be less verbose

The argument is not: conduction vaping = combustion = high off CO2

The argument is: if conduction vaping leads to combustion and harmful effects of combustion are interpreted as pleasurable then that could explain why some people report increased pleasure from their vaping methodology. The rest of that post is explaining how humans interpret arguably harmful behaviors as pleasurable.

I didn't develop the first point beyond obvious observations. It's only controversial if read as me claiming that conduction always leads to combustion and that people are only stoned due to how much CO2 was inadvertently inhaled along with their bud.

FWIW, I have no problem understanding what you have presented. However, I don’t speak on specifics on science I don’t understand, so whether it’s CO2, or other items produced, I can say there is certainly a different HIGH, and or experience from burning a joint via a flame, versus convection/conducting vapor. There are some off track posts here on FC, that have questioned the apparent differences, and I’ve always wondered myself. While the phycological reasons and connections from what we may have learned early on, certainly seem viable and part of the equation, I’ve always made the ASSUMPTION, that whatever toxins in the SMOKE of the burning product, not present if vaporized at proper temperature, is the biggest difference in the end effect, that many notice but can’t quantify.

I got a different high and head effect when I used to dab off a HOT titanium nail, then vaping at lower temps on my CH DCup on sapphire dish. I gave up hot nail dabs. I see similarities to vaping with e-cigarettes, you can get your nicotine fix at any strength you buy or mix, but my little brain, always MISSED something the other 3,999 ingredients of cigarettes had, most or all of which are not good for you. I’ve seen and read the same from many other ECig converters. Whatever these ingredients are, in smoke vapor, can make a connection to the brains “pleasure center”, and can last a long time even after not inhaling smoke again, and can contribute to addiction. That’s my simpleton opinion.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

I definitely agree it's a big "if" and that's where I anticipated the conversation to center around rather than disputing whether CO2 does or doesn't make people high...since "CO2 gets people high" wasn't my point.

I can see that I handled that part of the conversation clumsily since you're still hung up on this notion of whether CO2 does or doesn't make someone more high. It seems no amount of clarification from me is being respected in this discussion for whatever reasons.

Drawing from your own anecdote, for example, I'd point out that both "massive volumes" of what you call "air" and using a "bong" are staples of smoking bud and have much more to do with your state of mind than any CO2 going into your body.

A very big 'if'.

I just finished another bowl through the bong, and I did NOT experience the same feelings as the previous bowl. The same vape, the same cannabis, the same temperature; the only thing different was me.

This is why I say vaping is a very personal experience and it isn't something that can be predicted with any certainty. We can talk, we discuss, we have theories, but I don't know if there are arguments to be won. What I find is that conversations like this are opportunities to learn, and for me, FC is part of the experience.

There are those here who say that convection vapes can produce the greatest psychoactive effects; that hasn't been my experience. However, I am still going to use my Fog Pro, and Tera, and V3 Pro. Tomorrow is not today. Tomorrow, they could knock my socks off.

Some may find vaping more predictable than me. That is great. For me, I like that I can have new experience every day, and I can learn from each one. I can vape more cannabis too, but it is the whole experience.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[Siebter]

I see similarities to vaping with e-cigarettes, you can get your nicotine fix at any strength you buy or mix, but my little brain, always MISSED something the other 3,999 ingredients of cigarettes had, most or all of which are not good for you.

I don't think it's the whole mix of a few thousand dangerous substances. One thing that comes to mind when comparing e cig vapor with cigarette smoke is the absence of MAO-inhibitors in e cig juice, which are basically antidepressants that decrease the addictive nature of nicotine by a lot.

But our habits are indeed a very powerful factor. I switched from joints and tobacco to e cigs and vaporizers pretty much at the same time and while both felt satisfying to me from the very beginning, I did struggle for about half a year before I could make the definite switch. And what made the switch finally possible was not me getting used to the absence of certain substances, but simply that I found a device that felt like a joint when I was holding it in my hand, a Dynavap. The shape of the DV totally did it, and I was pretty surprised to see that just the shape of a vaporizer was such an important detail for me. But it is. The day before I had my first DV I was still struggling, after I finished my first session with it I instantly knew I was going to make it that day.

I have written elsewhere (several times) that I'm sure that the entire context of how we use drugs will become important over time. I have rolled thousands of joints in my life and enjoyed all of them, naturally the whole process of grinding, rolling and smoking became crucial for the experience. When being confronted with a totally different set up that asks us to choose a temperature on a box with a display, the ritual is very different and that affects the experience. But not on a substance level, I think.

[back to topic]

Maybe one thing that also affects the high quite a bit is flavor, and that's one aspect where conduction and convection differ a lot. To me the more conduction comes into play, the roastier, darker and warmer the flavor gets, while a pure convection vaporizer produces a brighter, terpier and somewhat more pure flavor.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

I have written elsewhere (several times) that I'm sure that the entire context of how we use drugs will become important over time. I have rolled thousands of joints in my life and enjoyed all of them, naturally the whole process of grinding, rolling and smoking became crucial for the experience. When being confronted with a totally different set up that asks us to choose a temperature on a box with a display, the ritual is very different and that affects the experience. But not on a substance level, I think.

There is power in ritual.

One reason to vape is to simply achieve psychoactive effects. Another reason for vaping is ritual, enjoyment, or numerous other possible reasons. A large part of how I vape is, or it should be, about ritual.

I use cannabis for medical reasons. I also enjoy the psychoactive effects. Moderation and common sense is best for me in the long run. Ritual helps in that balance.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[cx714]

I guess to a person with a hammer everything looks like a nail and to one with an advanced degree in sociology, biochemical effects are socialized behaviors.

There’s an element of interpretation in what you experience once you’ve activated those receptors, but unless conduction is releasing compounds that convection doesn’t, it’s the same physiological response. Even then, I’d argue that it’s more a question of extraction temperature than technology.

 

[.brew]

I guess to a person with a hammer everything looks like a nail and to one with an advanced degree in sociology, biochemical effects are socialized behaviors.

The conversation seems to be about processes that may lead to feeling more or less stoned and sociological factors certainly play a role in that.

 

[Grass Yes]

That was never the conversation and you certainly know it. Feel free to continue trolling, but the conversation is, and has always been, about processes that may lead to feeling more or less stoned and sociological factors certainly play a role in that.

I felt like the thread was hijacked into sociological factors. I think conduction vs combustion has almost nothing to do with the factors you identify, but I know how it is to see applications for my expertise where I find them.

 

[Stu]

Feel free to continue trolling

Please do not call members "trolls". If you think someone is being a troll, report them and let the mods handle it. Consider this a friendly warning.

Let's keep it civil, folks.

 

[Cheesequake]

There are those here who say that convection vapes can produce the greatest psychoactive effects; that hasn't been my experience. However, I am still going to use my Fog Pro, and Tera, and V3 Pro.

Are those the only convection vapes you've used?

 

[Jill NYC]

Here is a summary of voting as of now:







I am surprised at the results - I thought almost everyone on FC would have been Convection, but when you combine the hybrid leaning votes, Conduction pulls ahead.
I think it is all subjective of course, as we all have a different definition of what “high” is.
But this thread certainly helped me clarify what MY definition is (the all-body deep couch-locky stoned) and that is possibly because that is closer to a combustion high, which is how I got high before I discovered vapes (the time era known as BV).
I guess it just shows me that even when you find something better, you will alway compare it to your first time. Human nature?

Whatever ones personal definition and preference are, one thing is very clear - no high is better, (although a specific type of high may be best for an individual) they just different.
Cannabis is such a wonderful gift - I hope studying it in real scientific protocols becomes legal and plentiful so we can truly know the benefits and limitations it contains.

Thanks for all the insights!

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

Are those the only convection vapes you've used?

I have a Tera. I don't like it. Don't care for the V3 Pro. The Fog Pro I like. The original Fog is ok; just ok.

The idea behind convection makes sense. Leftovers are decent, but I prefer conduction. Convection vapes are like sucking empty air.

For me, convection is for when I am busy and need to get stuff done, or after using a conduction vape.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[Shadooz]

Convection vapes are like sucking empty air.

Cause u never sucked mine
Full mouth in no time..

 

[LesPlenty]

I also disagree with the idea that conduction vapes create smoke

modern conduction vapes are the ones with temp control and no combustion

My Xmax Ace (conduction) will burn at anything over 180c for me (I still get a little char at that)...both my units., pretty sure my OG Arizer Air would also char on the red setting
Convection is my preferred method...pretty hard to beat vaping 5g at once, I doubt there is any conduction vape that can chew through a bowl that big...Plenty rules for max results with herb...for me!
The dark logs are the Ace at 180c, the rest is the Xmax V3 Pro at 220c

 

[Siebter]

@LesPlenty – I don't think charred ABV suggests combustion. From what I know actual combustion will result in ash, I don't see that in your abv sample – and the said temp on your device are not necessarily precise too, so when they fail to monitor the temperature properly, they can of course combust, but that can occur with both convection and conduction.

 

[LesPlenty]

I don't see that in your abv sample

That is because these are at 180c (the Ace goes to 220c) as I learnt my lesson going any higher long ago...definitely a smoker if not careful!

 

[Shadooz]

But for now, i will not open a Petrus for u

Opening a $15,000 bottle of Petrus, 1961 with heated tools. This method is used to make sure that the cork stays intact. - Awesome

4,685 points • 461 comments

9gag.com

 

[Polarbearboy]

Here is a summary of voting as of now:

View attachment 15491





I am surprised at the results - I thought almost everyone on FC would have been Convection, but when you combine the hybrid leaning votes, Conduction pulls ahead.
I think it is all subjective of course, as we all have a different definition of what “high” is.
But this thread certainly helped me clarify what MY definition is (the all-body deep couch-locky stoned) and that is possibly because that is closer to a combustion high, which is how I got high before I discovered vapes (the time era known as BV).
I guess it just shows me that even when you find something better, you will alway compare it to your first time. Human nature?

Whatever ones personal definition and preference are, one thing is very clear - no high is better, (although a specific type of high may be best for an individual) they just different.
Cannabis is such a wonderful gift - I hope studying it in real scientific protocols becomes legal and plentiful so we can truly know the benefits and limitations it contains.

Thanks for all the insights!

In a thread in Concentrates I asked folks what their favorite type of concentrate was. I then got every type recommended and then some that weren't from two outstanding grower/processor/dispensers in Portland Maine. I now have eight active little jars, the most I've ever had going. I've made a concerted effort over the last six weeks to vape just one thing for a day and/or evening to see which I like best. My conclusion: If the stuff is high quality it doesn't matter if its indica or sativa, rosin or live resin, shatter or sugar: you get really stoned really quickly! Same with types of vapes: If the cannabis is good--and its very good where I am--doesn't matter if its convection or conduction--You get ripped. I've begun to think we are living in a Golden Age of Cannabis!

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

Golden Age of Cannabis!

In Canada, we are absolutely in the golden age. Everyday AA and AA+ can easily be found for $2/gram. Watching the sales, AAAA flower can often be found for $3-$5/gram. For mid-grade shatter, it runs around $7/gram on sale. As for hash, I just bought some AA+ black hash for $4/gram.

There are just so many options.

Robert-in-YEG

"As a matter of law, the house is haunted."
NY Supreme Court, Appellate Division, Stambovsky v. Ackley169 A.D.2d 254, 572 N.Y.S.2d 672