Conduction and Portable Vaporizers

[Farid]

PREFACE: For the sake of this discussion, when I reference “conduction” heating I am also referencing “hybrid” heating, since conduction plays a large role. I don’t wish for this to be a technical discussion of heat transfer (which often results in semantic disagreement, especially around the controversial hybrid concept) but rather a discussion of use cases, and whether “full convection” is really the gold standard for portable vaporizers.

Over the years on FC I have seen that “full convection” is the collectively agreed upon gold standard with regards to vaporization. While there is lots of real benefits to convection I believe having a conduction element to the oven offers a lot of benefits that are often overlooked when it comes to portable vaporizers.

PORTABILITY:

The biggest benefit of conduction when it comes to portability is that conduction vaporizers do not require a long airpath to cool down the vapor. Since the vapor is not accompanied by a mass of hot air, it can be inhaled right out of the oven (using a MFLB native, for instance). This allows for smaller sleeker designs, which are easier to pocket.

There is also the benefit that conduction uses battery power more efficiently. One of my biggest gripes with (battery powered) portable convection vaporizers is that they use power quickly, and for a heavy user this means carrying several extra batteries.

MOUTH TO LUNG:

Another overlooked benefit that some conduction/hybrid vaporizers have is the ability to take “mouth to lung hits”. Since full convection vaporizers require hot air to pass through the herb, the beginning of a hit often produces less dense vapor. This makes mouth to lung hits almost impossible with all the convection vaporizers I've used.

COMBUSTION:

The most common reason people seem to prefer convection is the taste. While I agree that the first hit off of a convection vaporizer is unmatched, nothing tastes worse than using a vaporizer in which combustion has previously occurred. With convection vaporizers, combustion occurs more easily, since airflow plays an important role in temperature regulation.

I also think the “bad” flavor of conduction is overstated, and can be significantly reduced by:

1) Designing ovens and airpaths which can be removed, and are easy to clean entirely.
2) Designing ovens which hold a small quantity of material, and can heat up quickly.
3) Emptying the oven of AVB while it is still hot, reducing residual buildup
__________________________________________________

For desktop vaporizers, I prefer convection. Being plugged in, the portability concerns go out the window, and I don’t mind the chance of accidental combustion if I’m sitting at home – I can just break out the iso. But nothing is worse than being out and about, and realizing your battery has died - I take that back, combusting when you’re out is worse. This is why all of the vaporizers I take out of the house have a large element of conduction.

 

[GetLeft]

I'll chime in. I'm not shy I may disagree on a couple of points but I do so with nothing but vagaries that are not intended to induce argument

Over the years on FC I have seen that “full convection” is the collectively agreed upon gold standard

I'd be hard pressed to say that there is an agreed upon gold standard (other than high qualtiy cannabis) around here. I might be falling behind in my reading, though.

The biggest benefit of conduction when it comes to portability

I have a convection vape that is close to (if not) the most pocketable vape I possess. I have another that's not quite so pocketable but nonetheless very much worth its slightly greater mass thanks to the promptness with which it delivers highly flavorful vapor. And while I don't happen to have one, I've seen there are a couple of sleek pen-sized convection vapes that have received good feedback.

There is also the benefit that conduction uses battery power more efficiently.

Very good point.

With convection vaporizers, combustion occurs more easily

I use convection vapes mostly because they are capable of producing vapor more quickly than conduction vapes. I haven't combusted in years.

Portable convection vapes also tend to clean more easily than protable conduction vapes.

 

[Siebter]

Yeah, I would heavily disagree with the idea of a gold standard too – I think some years ago convection was indeed considered as such, hence many devices claimed to work via convection when they actually did not. But nowadays it seems rather a matter of personal taste and preference.

The point I agree with the most is the MTL / mouth to lung factor; I love my Tinymight, yet my Dynavaps are my most used devices just for the fact that they feel much more like the joints I used to enjoy for some decades.

Portability – kind of. I don't think portable convection devices will get much smaller than the Tinymight or P80, which is still considerably bigger than for example an IQ. Still good enough for me.

And I have not combusted with any of my vapes for a while. If that happens, it would rather with my Dynavaps (hybrid leaning conduction) than my Tinymight.

Anyway, I think it's about time to accept that convection is not the only good way to go.

 

[Farid]

Great points. And when battery technology advances, things could change a lot.

For an experienced enthusiast many of the points I raised are not big issues. Combustion can easily be avoided through skill and experience. Likewise an experienced user might prioritize function over looks, flavor over consistency of operation.

But when creating a vaporizer for the mainstream consumer I think these issues become more relevant.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I would argue that there is no such thing as 100% convection. It would have to be a device that suspends the load in a zero gravity environment where it's not touching anything except hot air. No basket screen, no glass chamber, nothing. So basically, aliens are the only ones who get to have 100% convection.

 

[Farid]

Of course, but one could even argue that convection is merely a way of modeling conduction (occurring at the particle scale) through a fluid. I was hoping to avoid these esoteric semantic discussions, and instead have a more practical discussion of the use cases for convection and conduction as it is understood in relation to vaporizers.

After all, as seen with many "full convection" vapes, conduction clearly plays very little role in heating the load up to vaporization temps, as evidenced by hot spotting at the center of the load, while the edges (which are in contact with the stem wall) stay green.

 

[endof3d]

Thanks to everyone thats offered their thoughts on this topic. Found this discussion very informative as it explains why I have vapes ( convection ) that have only been used a few times and just sit on a shelf collecting dust. Turns out that I’m a mouth to lung person and find the Dyna Vap fits this style perfectly. Without attempting to hijack the thread, just wondering if anyone could point me to another portable vape that works with the mouth to lung technique? Thanks.

 

[mephisto]

Pax, Davinci IQ, Solo,

 

[Farid]

The mflb was capable of this, and though I never tried it, I imagine the vapman would be as well.

Session conduction vapes like the pax Davinci and Solo work as well, but being able to push the temps with on demand helps up the vapor density. In my experience the wide airpath of the solo makes using it for mtl less satisfying, so I prefer direct to lung when using arizer portables.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Firewood 7 is my ultimate conduction vape, instant on demand just like my favorite convection vapes, but it's got a ceramic oven chamber... IQ2 and vapman are fantastic as well, but something special about my FW7...

 

[florduh]

Firewood 7 is my ultimate conduction vape, instant on demand just like my favorite convection vapes, but it's got a ceramic oven chamber... IQ2 and vapman are fantastic as well, but something special about my FW7...

I bought a bunch of convection portables around the same time as my FW7. I find myself only grabbing the Firewood. The vapor is just... special. I'm not sure how to put it into words. It sort of reminds me of an easier to use, faster, better tasting Vapcap. But that doesn't fully describe it either. I also find it easier to use and clean than any stem-based convection portable.

I almost want to pick up a TM, just to compare. But I'm worried I'll regret not just buying a second Firewood instead

 

[mephisto]

Surprised you don't already have a TM @florduh. Hate to see you pay full price, so please hit me up if you feel like you need one more convection vape. I cannot believe how much I dig the full conduction provided by the dotleaf. Its a world away from the smelly, less than high sessions that the pax (1,2,3) supplied.

 

[florduh]

Surprised you don't already have a TM @florduh. Hate to see you pay full price, so please hit me up if you feel like you need one more convection vape. I cannot believe how much I dig the full conduction provided by the dotleaf. Its a world away from the smelly, less than high sessions that the pax (1,2,3) supplied.

I was actually about to buy a TM today lol. I do love my FW and still anticipate liking it more than the TM, but would like to know for sure. I was out of the flower game for the past 2 years. Was concentrate only. But moving back to Floriduh meant the only acceptable concentrates cost around $100/gram. Quality flower eights are $40-$60. So all of these vapes were purchased in the last month!

dotLeaf is another one that caught my eye. The feedback on the vapor quality is impressive. I wanted to be one of those cool convection snobs, but I really do like the flavor and effects of conduction! My old way of thinking was "Conduction=burnt popcorn taste fast". That's no longer the case with the newest conduction tech.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I really want to try the FW7 now.
IME the low temp hits taste the same between conduction and convection. Where the difference really shows itself is in the roasted flavor. My on demand convection devices have waaaay more detail and sophistication in the flavor of the high temperature/"already spent" hits compared to all of my conduction vapes. The roasted flavor in conduction vapes is muted at best, popcorn-y at worst.

 

[vapirtoo]

Damn you folks!
My VAS was in serious remission until I read about the FW7.
I do not really need a portable anymore but..........
Oh yeah, MFLB with PA.... oh shit not portable
but still great conduction hits!

 

[Farid]

The MFLB is great for on demand conduction microdoses. It was my go to between 2009 and 2012, but I really think it needs an update to be relevant in 2020. My biggest issue is that it is impossible to do a deep clean. If they made the bottom floor removable, and lined it with some metal (as was done with the Maud Dib) it would be so much better. Add user replaceable screens and it would be even better.

 

[AirPlay]

Ive had the first IQ for 5/6 years, and used it every day, i agree with the point that conduction suits on the go vaping better than convection in my experinece. I have TinyMight, DynaVap, IQ1/2, Pax3. I use all of them. I like conduction for mouth to lung, for a deeper hit on a portable - when out and about.

I have also learnt that the TinyMight for example does not respond well to cold temperatures. I only vape in my garage after 8pm- - My garage can be 0 easily, and - a lot of the time. I can use a whole Samsung 18650 on session for 3/4 minutes keeping the temp with the TM (7 on dial). And the same when I take it out to walk my dog in the winter. I know its known to be a power rinser. On top of that you often need to draw the TM quite hard, and repeatedly to keep the temps up as they cool down so quick with all that Ally at the bottom by the battery terminals. So its a hard work unit unless youre really really strolling with no intent.

Waffle waffle, point being my IQ1 and now 2 serve that portable purpose better than say my TM - jury was out on my portable IH for the vapcap, and returned it (still have desktop plug in IH) - but torching when out and about is...complicated. I have a Runt as well, and thats a crack pipe lookie likey, and not a social device on first glance to the ill and un-educated. TinyMight needs a pull to get it going, if your trucking up mountains and down dales following a fairly lively chocolate log, then a mouth to lung hit is essential for that view/photo/rest moment. IMHO

The IQ2 is proper stealth, quiet, innocuous with the flat mouth piece, but a better draw and experience on the adapter mouth piece. The IQ 2 allows you to manage the vapor better. close the bottom vent, thumb over mouth piece. You can store up the vapor, and get really big terpy hits, that vapour storage and heat retention suits outdoor on the go vaping far better... imho

The iQ2 heats up from rest quite quickly and if you hit the boost its can get high, very high, very quickly, and does well on the samsung battery, 4/5 sessions depending on your temp profile. All you tandoori oven cookers wont get that much, but rocking mid-high temps is good longevity, if you put a proper battery in it...

Convection when at home. SBL/flowerpot (coming this week)/Vapcap...all dry lol

 

[BrianTL]

Ive had the first IQ for 5/6 years, and used it every day, i agree with the point that conduction suits on the go vaping better than convection in my experinece. I have TinyMight, DynaVap, IQ1/2, Pax3. I use all of them. I like conduction for mouth to lung, for a deeper hit on a portable - when out and about.

I have also learnt that the TinyMight for example does not respond well to cold temperatures. I only vape in my garage after 8pm- - My garage can be 0 easily, and - a lot of the time. I can use a whole Samsung 18650 on session for 3/4 minutes keeping the temp with the TM (7 on dial). And the same when I take it out to walk my dog in the winter. I know its known to be a power rinser. On top of that you often need to draw the TM quite hard, and repeatedly to keep the temps up as they cool down so quick with all that Ally at the bottom by the battery terminals. So its a hard work unit unless youre really really strolling with no intent.

Waffle waffle, point being my IQ1 and now 2 serve that portable purpose better than say my TM - jury was out on my portable IH for the vapcap, and returned it (still have desktop plug in IH) - but torching when out and about is...complicated. I have a Runt as well, and thats a crack pipe lookie likey, and not a social device on first glance to the ill and un-educated. TinyMight needs a pull to get it going, if your trucking up mountains and down dales following a fairly lively chocolate log, then a mouth to lung hit is essential for that view/photo/rest moment. IMHO

The IQ2 is proper stealth, quiet, innocuous with the flat mouth piece, but a better draw and experience on the adapter mouth piece. The IQ 2 allows you to manage the vapor better. close the bottom vent, thumb over mouth piece. You can store up the vapor, and get really big terpy hits, that vapour storage and heat retention suits outdoor on the go vaping far better... imho

The iQ2 heats up from rest quite quickly and if you hit the boost its can get high, very high, very quickly, and does well on the samsung battery, 4/5 sessions depending on your temp profile. All you tandoori oven cookers wont get that much, but rocking mid-high temps is good longevity, if you put a proper battery in it...

Convection when at home. SBL/flowerpot (coming this week)/Vapcap...all dry lol

Maybe just my personal experience with the IQ2/TM but I pretty much disagree completely lol. I do agree the TM struggles with temps, so far I would say maybe 20F and below I have really noticed it. Upper 20's performance seems to hold for me. Other than that though my experience has been wildly different.

Personally I find the on-demand devices MUCH better for stealth, walking the dog, being out and about in general. The session style IQ is good for sipping on the couch while watching a movie, or sharing with a friend or two.

The Firewood 7 is a good example of an on demand conduction oriented device, great for walking the dog pulling it out of your pocket for a quick hit and put back away in no time. Seems to deal with the cold ambient temps better than the TM as well, which makes sense.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I think the form factor plays the biggest role in how good it is for out and about use, not what type of heating. Pax and Alfa are conduction and are amazing for stealth use away from home, but so is the VLeaf Go convection vape, and so is the Fury lineup (if the Furys were 100% convection which they're not).

 

[Farid]

I think form factor and battery life are most important when it comes to out and about use. I've yet to come across a convection portable that has both good battery life and a small form factor.

 

[AirPlay]

@BrianTL we would have to agree to differ. The IQ is half the size of the TM - and has a massive glass tube hanging out of it. The IQ looks like a external phone battery with the flat mouth piece and is invisible in my hand competely by comparrisson...Far steamlthier than the TM...I can also operate it in my pocket without getting it out until it vibrates as ready...because it has an app too ^^

...and you quote me whilst quoting and comnparing a yet undiscussed device?

I didnt say the performance was poor, I believe I mentioned my TM using a whole battery in a few minutes in my garage on session mode?, this was only down to external temps, not performance...I did mention it didnt perform well in really cold tempos, but generally the permormance is exceptional, as recorded by just about everyone who owns one...

Apart from ther Firefly, which of the on demand convection vapes do you consider to be stealth? They all look pretty big to me, and largely very obvious too with all thjat glass hanging out of them...

In the US, no problem Im sure, everyone has a medical card, and every state just about is legal or rec or at least medicinal. Im in the UK lol

 

[BrianTL]

I think the form factor plays the biggest role in how good it is for out and about use, not what type of heating. Pax and Alfa are conduction and are amazing for stealth use away from home, but so is the VLeaf Go convection vape, and so it the Fury lineup (if the Furys were 100% convection which they're not).

For me its a few things, form factor (specifically how it sits in a pocket) and ease of use. By ease of use, I mean something that can come out of my pocket and giving me a hit or two pretty quickly and then back to my pocket. Also I consider whats involved in reloading, as some vapes are much easier to load while out of the house than others.

I agree the actual type of heating is irrelevant for this, that said, conduction vapes TEND to be more session oriented from what I've seen. If I'm out and about in a public setting, I really dont want to be walking down the street huffing on my IQ2 for a few minutes, to get the same effects I could get from something else with a single hit or two. So because when I'm "out and about," typically I'm in somewhat of a public environment in a non-friendly state, so most of the times I need to be quick.

Thats why I mentioned the FW7, as an example of something that would be considered on-demand conduction, which fits my needs pretty much perfectly for an on the go type vape. Only thing missing is easy reloading.

I've always been a little jealous of the Fury dosing capsules, seems like the best solution for being out and about to be honest. Just pop the old one out, new one in, and ready to rock.

@BrianTL we would have to agree to differ. The IQ is half the size of the TM - and has a massive glass tube hanging out of it. The IQ looks like a external phone battery with the flat mouth piece and is invisible in my hand competely by comparrisson...Far steamlthier than the TM...I can also operate it in my pocket without getting it out until it vibrates as ready...because it has an app too ^^

Agreeing to disagree is completely fine lol I was just saying my experience was wildly different. I wasn't saying you're wrong, just that it hasn't been my experience at all, not that my way is the only way to do it. As we know though, people use the same vapes in different ways. For example if we're considering stealth, I value heat up time and extraction speed much more so than how it disappears in the hand. If I have to make it disappear it just goes back into the pocket.

Oh and the app doesn't work for me with an iPhone anyway. Never got the pleasure of using that

...and you quote me whilst quoting and comnparing a yet undiscussed device?

Yes, I did quote you, but my whole response wasn't directed entirely at you. General thread conversation had brought up the FW7 so I mentioned how its a good example of a conduction device that, IMO, is a solid on-demand vape great for being on the go.

I didnt say the performance was poor, I believe I mentioned my TM using a whole battery in a few minutes in my garage on session mode?, this was only down to external temps, not performance...I did mention it didnt perform well in really cold tempos, but generally the permormance is exceptional, as recorded by just about everyone who owns one...

Right, a drop in performance in cold weather, your battery dies quicker, gotta crank the dial higher to get the same roast you would get in warmer temps, etc. That was my only comment about the performance, it starts to noticeably drop around the mid 20s (F) for me. I was agreeing with you about this part

Apart from ther Firefly, which of the on demand convection vapes do you consider to be stealth? They all look pretty big to me, and largely very obvious too with all thjat glass hanging out of them...

In the US, no problem Im sure, everyone has a medical card, and every state just about is legal or rec or at least medicinal. Im in the UK lol

So I guess this is where our difference in stealth comes into play. My go-to right now is the Firewood 7, followed by the TinyMight. Personally I dont find the TM glass MP to be an issue, as its either in my pocket or in my mouth for a few seconds to hit it. Like I'm not leaving my vapes out in the open for people to see so the physical appearance doesn't necessarily matter to me.

The Taffee could be considered stealthy, but it doesn't go into a pocket. More of a hide in plain sight stealth.

The Hopper io seems pretty stealthy, but I know next to nothing about it other than it looks like a pen and its "instant on." I can't even tell you if it generally has good reviews or bad.

Doesn't mean the IQ2 CANT be stealthy, just for my own personal use and I know I'll have to be stealthy, I'm grabbing the TM over the IQ2 10/10 times.

Also not sure where you got those views on the US from but I don't think our reality is what you're envisioning lol. Sure people have med cards, but besides from a select few fully recreational states, its still kind of taboo. There are plenty of states that have a medical program in existence, but still pretty non-friendly.

Sorry for the wall of text - got pretty distracted and kept having to come back so my thoughts my be all over the place

 

[Jah75]

another vote here as a convection "feel" lover. Hands down the best conduction experience I have ever had is the Firewood 7. I cannot stress enough how well it works for me and how enjoyable it is 8)

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

For me its a few things, form factor (specifically how it sits in a pocket) and ease of use. By ease of use, I mean something that can come out of my pocket and giving me a hit or two pretty quickly and then back to my pocket. Also I consider whats involved in reloading, as some vapes are much easier to load while out of the house than others.

I agree the actual type of heating is irrelevant for this, that said, conduction vapes TEND to be more session oriented from what I've seen. If I'm out and about in a public setting, I really dont want to be walking down the street huffing on my IQ2 for a few minutes, to get the same effects I could get from something else with a single hit or two. So because when I'm "out and about," typically I'm in somewhat of a public environment in a non-friendly state, so most of the times I need to be quick.

Thats why I mentioned the FW7, as an example of something that would be considered on-demand conduction, which fits my needs pretty much perfectly for an on the go type vape. Only thing missing is easy reloading.

I've always been a little jealous of the Fury dosing capsules, seems like the best solution for being out and about to be honest. Just pop the old one out, new one in, and ready to rock.

And lets not forget that there are different types of out and about situations. So one single portable vape might not cover it all. Vaping in a parked car allows for some vapes to be used that I wouldn't want to try and use on the floor in the middle of a concert, or on the top of a mountain that you're about to ski down. But I can still leave the house with all of them because they're all portable.
If you're out at your buddy's party and passing it around then a session conduction vape is what you want.. If you're out at your Baptist sister in-laws party and don't want anyone knowing you use the devil's lettuce and you're trying to step outside real quick to medicate, on demand is what you want.
Although it would be cool to say that I use a Dynavap with torch while snowboarding, I'd rather use a Pax for that. Even though both are "on the go" vapes.

 

[BrianTL]

And lets not forget that there are different types of out and about situations. So one single 'out and about' type portable vape might not cover it all. Vaping in a parked car allows for some vapes to be used that I wouldn't want to try and use on the floor in the middle of a concert, or on the top of a snowy mountain that you're about to ski down. But I can still leave the house with all of them because they're all portable.
If you're out at a college party and passing it around then a session conduction vape is what you want.. If you're out at your Baptist sister in-laws party and no one else partakes and you're trying to step outside real quick to medicate, on demand is what you want.
Although it would be cool to say that I use a Dynavap with torch while snowboarding, I'd rather use a Pax for that. Even though both are "on the go" vapes.

Exactly. At the end of the day the situation dictates what makes the most sense. Different days have different needs